Bushmaster and Gravity Questions? +rep for good advice

dlively11 said:

To put this to rest I finally got around to taking some pics to clear this topic up once and for all.

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Anecdotal evidence in cannabis forums, with or with out cherry picked photos, doesn't confirm or verify anything. I don't see any degree of internodes shortening, and that's how PGR's work. Of course, since the technical info is not made available by Humboldt, we really don't know if Bushmaster is a real PGR or not.

Any one can take a smaller plant and put it next to a larger plant and go "see, I told you it worked!" Nice try LOL



No offense, but I don't see much in the way of bulk in those plants. In fact, compared to my plants using conventional store bought Walmart type foods, they look scraggly. If they are pure sativa (which they aren't) you have an excuse. If they are typical mutts, you do not. Perhaps you need to get back on the right track with a nickel's worth of Jack's Classic 10-30-20. Witness these plants which have retained their fan leaves, have short internodes with dense masses of bud development (even at the lower areas) and are ready for harvesting:






I'm going to "sell" Jack's Bloom food based on the only important issue to Master Gardeners, plant nutrition.

The Guaranteed Analysis is as follows:

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS

Total Nitrogen (N)....................................... 10%
5% Ammoniacal Nitrogen
5% Nitrate Nitrogen
Available Phosphate (P2O5)........................ 30%
Soluble Potash (K2O)................................. 20%
Magnesium (Mg)......................................... 0.5% - 0.50% Water Soluble Magnesium (Mg)
Boron (B)...................................................0.02%
Copper (Cu)............................................... 0.05% - 0.05% Chelated Copper (Cu)
Iron (Fe).................................................... 0.10% - 0.10% Chelated Iron (Fe)
Manganese (Mn)......................................... 0.05% - 0.05% Chelated Manganese (Mn)
Molybdenum (Mo)...................................... 0.0009%
Zinc (Zn)....................................................... 0.05% - 0.05% Chelated Zinc (Zn)

And jest to learn ya sumtin, here's the link that has the embedded link of "what the numbers mean" which includes a cursory statement regarding State Law regulation. http://www.jacksclassic.com/blossom_booster.html

This is a perfect bloom food for cannabis. The ratio of ammonical to nitrate N is well balanced for this phase of the plant, Fe and Mg is high to offset any of the micro lockouts that increased P usually induces.....and most of the trace elements are represented in the product. The higher amount of K helps bump the plant out of the vegetative stage into a strong flowering mode.

Needless to say, as with all bloom foods - if premature leaf yellowing or drop occurs during flowering, one should switch back to a more balanced food or even a high N food like a 30-10-10 until the correction is made. Most just sit there watching their plants suffer, lose all their valuable fan leaves wandering why....... mumbling some forum mantra like "well.....everyone is using it!"

Uncle Ben

collective gardener said:

Lively,
I'll do the same. I just put a Sativa into bloom after letting it get too tall in veg. I'll be hitting it today with the Bushmaster 1/3 ml/gal to shut down the vertical growth during the time it would be stretching.......Just a theory.

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1/3 ml/gal eh? I mean...... 1/3 ml of sulfuric acid to a quart of water would have a neglegible affect on pH. That's 0.00676 of a teaspoon, wow! 1/3 of nothing is still nothing.

Yeah, "just a theory".

Who you trying to fool?

I find the humor here.

We have one user, never used the stuff, but he claims to have intimate knowledge of the composition of the product. Anyone else who has used the product and seen the results of its use is, to this user, stupid or lying.

Then we have people with brains who use them. People who aren't afraid to spend $10. People who are willing to experiment if only for the benefit of the group at large. These people, who use the product and see the results first hand, are somehow supposed to believe the irate rantings of a self-promoting douchebag? C'mon.

Everyone knows what is going on. Keep living in your delusions UB.
I did put this guy on ignore. Probably in the first month I was here. I do catch the quoted stuff though. It's always the same.

Never using or trying something, and then telling other people not to use it or try it, is detrimental to the community as a whole. You espouse ignorance. As in "ignore everything else" because somehow we are supposed to just trust you. Anyone can steal a picture of a nice big plant off the internet and say they grew it with Brand X nutrients. Just as you would not believe the person above who uses the product I don't believe a fucking thing you have to say. Your ignorance, the lack of first-hand knowledge, says more with no words than you will here in this thread.

99% of everyone that uses the stuff likes it, continues to use it, and reports it works as advertised. I don't care what your opinion is regarding what is on the label. They could say it was full of unicorn farts and fairy wing extracts. I don't really care. If it works as advertised, and it isn't poisonous, then what are you so upset about?

Tuck your tail between your legs and maybe stick to the subjects you have experience with. Until you can grow a pair and actually give a new product a chance in your garden then you don't deserve the respect you are after.

Snow Crash said:

I find the humor here.

We have one user, never used the stuff, but he claims to have intimate knowledge of the composition of the product. Anyone else who has used the product and seen the results of its use is, to this user, stupid or lying.

Then we have people with brains who use them. People who aren't afraid to spend $10. People who are willing to experiment if only for the benefit of the group at large. These people, who use the product and see the results first hand, are somehow supposed to believe the irate rantings of a self-promoting douchebag? C'mon.

Everyone knows what is going on. Keep living in your delusions UB.
I did put this guy on ignore. Probably in the first month I was here. I do catch the quoted stuff though. It's always the same.

Never using or trying something, and then telling other people not to use it or try it, is detrimental to the community as a whole. You espouse ignorance. As in "ignore everything else" because somehow we are supposed to just trust you. Anyone can steal a picture of a nice big plant off the internet and say they grew it with Brand X nutrients. Just as you would not believe the person above who uses the product I don't believe a fucking thing you have to say. Your ignorance, the lack of first-hand knowledge, says more with no words than you will here in this thread.

99% of everyone that uses the stuff likes it, continues to use it, and reports it works as advertised. I don't care what your opinion is regarding what is on the label. They could say it was full of unicorn farts and fairy wing extracts. I don't really care. If it works as advertised, and it isn't poisonous, then what are you so upset about?

Tuck your tail between your legs and maybe stick to the subjects you have experience with. Until you can grow a pair and actually give a new product a chance in your garden then you don't deserve the respect you are after.

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Seriously? Are you mentioned in Jorges Bible? UB is. Have you been in several forums teaching folks how to grow for 15 years? UB has.
Do your threads here at RIU have a million hits? UB's do

Do you perhaps possibly think that if you had been reading noob post/questions for 15 years you develope a bit of an attitude about stuff being spread in forums?

I'm not knockin the product, I stated earlier in the thread it was nothing I would do. but not respecting UB for his contribution to the community is way off base IMO

Careful riddleme. You get any more of UB's ass on your lips and you're liable to suffocate.
And the internet, in 1995/96... I'm sure UB did a ton of helping online "15 years ago." LMAO!!! Back on dial-up... Back before most people even had access much less knowledge of how to use it.

Can't you people say anything credible?

Snow Crash said:

Careful riddleme. You get any more of UB's ass on your lips and you're liable to suffocate.

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If you only knew where I've been LOL

Snow Crash said:

I find the humor here.

We have one user, never used the stuff, but he claims to have intimate knowledge of the composition of the product.

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"User" Huh? I thought I never used it before. I'm confused. Wait, perhaps you think I used it half ass like the rest of your buds, kinda like taking half a toke?

My 2 previous posts kicked butt.

We have one clown who is putting words into my mouth, spinning with half truths. I asked you and yours in this thread and others to verify what's in Bushmaster. Only answer I got was seaweed extract, which is NOT recognized in the field of horticulture as a PGR. I could be missing something, never know but like I said, "1/3 of nothing is nothing", like your posts.

If you can tell me exactly what it has in it that makes it so wonderful and the % of the active ingredient, and if I can verify your info, then you might have my interest and my respect. Until then, fuck off shit-fer-brains.

UB

Medina products are used in Texas big time, commercially, made locally. Medina Plus has seaweed extract which contains "cytokinin (natural growth hormones from seaweed extract)". Not a PGR but rather a growth hormone designed to enhance growth, not retard it.

• Increases blooming and leaf growth

http://buckmoorefeed.com/Medina.aspx

Wow, Charlie Sheen AKA Uclue Ben sure is ranting today lol ......


You are not a user at all UB. You are just a hater and a troll on this forum. 99% of what comes out of your mouth lately you know nothing about and sound like a ranting lunatic.

you contantly jump all over threads about products you have NEVER EVEN USED AND HAVE ZERO EXPERIENCE WITH !! Do you really have nothing better to do ? Get some experience and then make a comment, until then you are acting like some know it all newbie.

I didnt hand pick anything. I showed atleast 6 different plants all with the same results. Funny the ones with the Bushmater AKA "snake oil" ALL turned out short and bushy and the untreated ones were all tall and lanky. Same with every other strain I have run. Talk about hand picking, you find one close up shot of your bud and make some comparison shot to a picture I posted pulled way back to show the height. Simple diversion because I proved you wrong once again just like the leaf removal for SOG. Another topic you have ZERO experience with but claim to know all. You have this paranoid thought process that people are actually coming on a growing forum to lie rather then share knowledge. 99.9% of people wil read this and see the pics and know this is what they can except.They wont think I am trying to fool them somehow. What purpose does that serve? I could post hundreds of pics showing the same thing and you would still find a way to pick it apart just so you can be "right".


Please feel free to rant some more as I am sure you will. If you bothered to read what almost everyone has posted in here you would get a better idea of what this makes you look like. Sad to see what happens when our brains get old and decrepit.

Uncle Ben said:

1/3 ml/gal eh? I mean...... 1/3 ml of sulfuric acid to a quart of water would have a neglegible affect on pH. That's 0.00676 of a teaspoon, wow! 1/3 of nothing is still nothing.

Yeah, "just a theory".

Who you trying to fool?

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I'm not quite sure why you're so upset over this. I use 1/3 ml/gal with the Bushmaster because that's all it's ever taken to obtain the desired results. I assure you UB, I'm not "trying to fool" anyone. I don't sell the stuff, I don't own stock in the company. It was my understanding that the title to the thread was "Bushmaster and Gravity Questions". I'm simply passing on my experience with Bushmaster.

To anyone out there who is considering using Bushmaster, I can testify that the product works as advertised, and that you may want to start out with less than the recommended dose. After all, if you can achieve the desired results with less product, what's wrong with saving a little money, right?

Dlively, very nice photos of the two plants. My experience with the product has produced similar results.

Good research. Its cool seeing people go out of their way to share their findings. Its also cool to see people dedicated to no BS pro greenhouse operater style gardening. Good info on both sides.

Dont know if this thread is still active but I have lots of experience with both products. Bush Master works well to halt vertical growth BUT it also affects the outcome of your crop. I have ran 6 cycles with Bush Master in a 4000 watt flowering room.

PROS:
Halts vertical growth
Helps hormone change into flower (when side by side comparison w flood tables w and w/o bush master the plants w bush master at week 2 of flower were much further progressing)
Can speed up your cycle

CONS:
Loss of crystalization - (Emerald Triangle recommends using Snow Storm in conjunction with the Bush Master in order to combat this problem)
Speed of maturation - (Last crop I used it on w tried and true genetics finished 12 days early without the crystal and resin that I typically get)

I dont have any pictures, but I wish I did to illustrate the differences of using and not using. My last crop was a side by side comparison and the side w/o Bushmaster finished like it was supposed to, frosty, resin filled and stinky while the other side did not. Both tables being fed same Advanced Nutrient regime in sealed Co2 environment.

collective gardener said:

To anyone out there who is considering using Bushmaster, I can testify that the product works as advertised,..........

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That's good enough fer me! Where can I get me some of that stuff?

Well, it's easier for me to follow UB when he consistently backs up his statements with scientific research that is conducted by professionals, aka lots of university agriculture departments and etc. These are the same research papers that are available to everyone with a little bit of research and patience. These findings aren't always new findings either, they've been in use on farms and in nurseries all across America for generations. Also, he consistently calls people out to prove him wrong, back up your findings with real research and scientific evidence. And I'm sorry, but you can't do that with a damn camera. It doesn't work like that. J.R. Peters didn't spend millions and millions of dollars and man hours of research on his products by just taking pictures.

On a side note, the idea of putting something that is carcinogenic on my bud that I'm about to LIGHT ON FIRE AND INGEST INTO MY LUNGS is ridiculous. If I was interested in Bushmaster, which I'm not honestly, then I'd definitely do some more research first about those carcinogenic properties, lawl.

Uncle Ben said:

That's good enough fer me! Where can I get me some of that stuff?

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Love how you post a picture of your posterboy plant that has NOTHING to do with the topic at hand. Did you use bushmaster on it ? Nope... was it a comparison to some other pant you had? Nope.... Was just some typical bullshit post with a picture because it so clearly got under your skin that I proved you COMPLETLY Wrong. Very lame indeed Unclue Ben.

Ugh, so annoying. I just had to go back and read every post by UB again (a task I've done many times anyways) because I was /almost/ positive that he never once said that phosphoric acid would not stunt your plant. I was only almost positive though, so I checked again for sure because I don't like to give out misinformation.

Anyways, he did give several reasons why ya might not want to use it, which were all valid and backed up, except maybe a thing or two that were forum links, but whatev. But eff all that, lets just discard logic and reason and run off of our emotions because mean ole Uncle Ben hurt our feelings.

I'ma go pump some iron with these two bottles of Gravity I picked up today. (lol, sorry I couldn't help it )

Boonierat said:

Ugh, so annoying. I just had to go back and read every post by UB again (a task I've done many times anyways) because I was /almost/ positive that he never once said that phosphoric acid would not stunt your plant. I was only almost positive though, so I checked again for sure because I don't like to give out misinformation.

Anyways, he did give several reasons why ya might not want to use it, which were all valid and backed up, except maybe a thing or two that were forum links, but whatev. But eff all that, lets just discard logic and reason and run off of our emotions because mean ole Uncle Ben hurt our feelings.

I'ma go pump some iron with these two bottles of Gravity I picked up today. (lol, sorry I couldn't help it )

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What the hell are you talking about? Science? Papers? We don't even really know what is in the product, so any science that has been presented cannot be directly linked to the product. There can be no correlation made, especially scholarly, by anyone other than Emerald Triangle. Since there is no obligation for them to share their recipe then we can do little more than hypothesize on the subject.

Feelings?

Are you mad?

People are not basing their opinions on feelings, or bad science, they are basing them on EXPERIENCE.

Let me spell that out for you, real slow like, so you can understand it.
E
X
P
E
R
I
E
N
C
E

Without actually using the product and getting first hand information everything these non-users claim is moot based on their inexperience.

Focusing on the phosphorus content is a straw man argument as the elemental content of the products do not have to be accurate and are not considered to be the polarizing ingredients that make these products different from other ones. The elemental content is likely more of a "by-product" of the variety of items contained in the bottle.

So let me say this again. We don't actually know what is in the product. Do all the hypothesizing about what you think "should" happen when the product is used. At the end of the day it doesn't mean shit and doesn't change that the actual results match the advertised description. The people who use the product and have seen the results have the only opinions that matter.

This is like taking advice from someone not to eat at a Thai food restaurant they have themselves never eaten at because they don't like Thai food to begin with. The don't know the chef, the menu, or the freshness of the ingredients. They have a personal opinion based on FEELINGS and should keep their fat mouths shut when it comes to things they don't know anything about. Someone else who has eaten there says "Oh, no way dude, the food there is really delicious." To which the person who has not eaten there still keeps talking. Like they are an expert on a topic they don't know a thing about.

Don't know what is in the product. Never seen the results first hand. Sounds like the right person to listen to??? WTF?!?!

If you are a scared person, too scared to try a product on a test plant, at the whopping cost of a few dollars, then I don't understand how you can validate your own voice here. Cowards.

Sorry, was too tired to continue last night.


Alright, I concede to your example. I hate when people do that too and if I was coming off that way, then truly I am sorry. And you are right, you don't really know what is in that product, a point well made by UB early in the thread. And then later, a thread was linked saying that one of the ingredients has carcinogenic properties. Soooo......

This is like the Thai food guy saying the food is delicious, but only if you can get over the cockroaches running across your table.

Boonierat said:

Anyways, he did give several reasons why ya might not want to use it, which were all valid and backed up, except maybe a thing or two that were forum links, but whatev. But eff all that, lets just discard logic and reason and run off of our emotions because mean ole Uncle Ben hurt our feelings.

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Yep, it's more feel-good theories. You really nailed the cannabis forum human condition. After posting to many a cannabis forum, it's easy to pick up on the extreme amount of human tendencies - the tendency to be popular, to go along with popular thought, to gang-bang those who hold views different than your own. Also, if you think there is tight knit brotherhood with stoners, think again. Cannabis forums are wraught with a lot of in fighting. It is what it is.

I'ma go pump some iron with these two bottles of Gravity I picked up today. (lol, sorry I couldn't help it )

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LOL. I prefer the 12 oz curls myself. Modelo comes to mind.

Snow Crash said:

What the hell are you talking about? Science? Papers? We don't even really know what is in the product,....

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Takes a fool to use product with unknown ingredients. Don't know about you, but I don't buy stuff that is or may very well be carcinogenic. There's a damn good reason why the EPA and state laws regulate plant products. It's for the safety of mammals, wildlife, fish and the overall environment.

.... so any science that has been presented cannot be directly linked to the product.

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I gave you science, at least what ifs. Let's take Gravity, it's nothing more than a VERY weak fertilizer containing nothing more than some P in the form of phosphoric acid, and a whole lotta hype and expense. IOW, you're buying water.

Since there is no obligation for them to share their recipe then we can do little more than hypothesize on the subject.

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In lieu of all the unknowns, it takes a fool to still endorse a product? Whew! Let's see, "I'm gonna smoke this shit. Folks say they don't know what it contains but that doesn't matter. Everyone is doing it. 'They' say it works!."

Focusing on the phosphorus content is a straw man argument as the elemental content of the products do not have to be accurate.....

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Wrong. By state law, the guaranteed analysis MUST be stated on the label and is required to be accurate. You may not care, but there is such a thing as a Truth in Product agreement. If anyone can find me the proper regulatory authority, probably in California, I'm going to ask for an investigation into Humboldt products. Call it the Uncle Ben Crusade for Cannabis Products Truth. For starts, if it does contain paclo, it's against the law to not only sell it, but to buy it. As I said I have a State Pesticide applicators license and have to show it before buying Bonzi.

The elemental content is likely more of a "by-product" of the variety of items contained in the bottle.

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That's a feeling, not a fact. Touche'

So let me say this again. We don't actually know what is in the product.

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The people who use the product and have seen the results have the only opinions that matter.

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Ya think? I'm getting a ton of Rep comments from RIU Sheeple that think otherwise.

If you are a scared person, too scared to try a product on a test plant, at the whopping cost of a few dollars, then I don't understand how you can validate your own voice here. Cowards.

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"Cowards", hah! Now the chest beating gets down to name calling. I posted some very nice plants which by default are my results. Why should I try anything else. What I use works! (sound familiar LOL) In fact, folks that are using these cannabis specific products are the very ones with crappy looking gardens....plants that look stressed.

No, smart is what I consider myself. I don't have to put my hand on a hot stove to know I'll get burned.

UB