Can HP Aeroponics be achieved without the use of a pump?

Hello everyone! I have been using low pressure aeroponics for a couple years and it's done ok but I would like to switch over to a HP unit that doesn't need a pump. Has anyone built a HP Aeroponic system without the use of a pump?

I was thinking an accumulator tank with nutrient solution filled with air leading to a 12v solenoid with a separate on/off timer leading to the HP sprayers (8 - 12) would work. Is a unit like this achievable? Has anyone built a unit like this and if yes any links to diagrams or parts list? I would like to get something like this set up around April or May. I have searched the internet and everything seems to be set up with accumulator tank along with pump and nothing on anything only using the tank. Please any help would be greatly appreciated.

Hey... I'm having trouble imagining how you plan to get the water into the pressurized accum tank without a pump :S
I also fail to see the purpose of this, a diaphragm pump would be cheaper and more silent than an air compressor...
There's an aeroponics variant called Atomized Aeroponics (AA) where high pressure air is used, but as far as I know, they also use a water pump... look it up: https://www.rollitup.org/t/constructing-a-homebrew-atomix-air-atomized-aeroponic-system.596059/
Good luck!

Thanks for the reply. To answer your question I would use a handheld Hydrostatic Test Pump. I was thinking once a week I could pump in nutrient solution and pressurize the tank to last a week.

Ok, so each seven days you'd be emptying whatever is left on the accumulator tank and refilling it with nutrient solution. Once filled you would pressurize it with an air compressor and pressure switch to maintain the pressure at 100PSI
If your calculations for having 8 nozzles on the root chamber are correct, assuming a flow rate of 1.2gph per nozzle and cycles of 4 seconds every 5 minutes, that means that you'll be spraying 2.7 gallons of nutrient solution in 7 days... I guess you can see that you would need a big accumulator tank to hold that amount plus the pressurized air... Other than that, what are you planning on doing with your drain? You would catch it and then 7 days later pump it back in?
I don't know... it seems like a lot of trouble for not having a pump, and overall I fail to see the benefits of it... But that's just my humble opinion. For example, It would be really hard to track the temperature of the nutrient solution, unless you had a thermometer for that accumulator tank which I have never seen... What's the reason for not wanting a pump?

I would want the system to go on for 1-2 seconds every 5 - 6 minutes and anything left over will just drain out. I wouldn't want a pump as it's mechanical and could break down and all the plants would die. I would want something to set up and come back a week later and refill the tank with new nutrients and fill with air which would all take maybe 30 minutes at the most to do. As for temps of the nutrients I insulate the tank so theirs no need to worry about nutrient temps.

I use mains water pressure for my hpa cloner, some use mains water with dosers and an accumulator for pumpless hpa. My rothenberger rp50 hydrostatic test pump is now just a backup for my main 160psi 12v pump. You wouldnt want to charge a 26gal accumulator with an rp50 on a constant basis
A silent air compressor is as quiet as a domestic fridge, i can be 2ft from mine and not be 100% sure if its running or not.
If you plan to use compressed air to pressurise the water, you`ll need to keep adding air as water is removed..otherwise the tank pressure will fall

Bob, the AA setups in that thread dont use any water pumps as the nozzles are syphon fed. By my reckoning 8x 1.2gph nozzles on a 4sec/5min cycle would run 3.03 gals per day and thats if theres no run-on (aka wasted nutes). A 26gal (100L) accumulator charged to 140psi would run that setup for a maximum of 3 days and 9 hours, at which point the tank pressure will be down to 80psi. Gonna need a bigger tank to get a week

Yes... As Atomizer said, you need to keep adding air, there is no way that you could mantain a pressure of 100PSI throughout the week without pumping either air or water back into the system... which is why I mentioned the pressure switch to activate the compressor... How about a 2 pump setup so that one backs up the other one? You could have one pressure switch on each pump, triggering the pumps at different pressures, that way if one pump breaks, the other one will save your crop... And you can forget about the air compressor for the time being.
Pumps don't break that often, unless you run them without an accumulator tank. In which case you wouldn't be able to achieve the short misting cycles that you want.
But anyway, I realize that what I'm suggesting isn't what you initially asked for... If you really want to pursue the kind of system you had in mind, you'll need to figure out what to do with the drain... get a pressure switch to trigger the air compressor when the pressure falls because of the water used on each misting cycle and a big accumulator tank.


PD: Woops.. I just realized that.. lol sorry about those wrong numbers there... thanks atomizer for correcting it

Atomizer thanks for the reply. A question for you if I'm only using a burst of 1-2 seconds every 5 - 6 minutes how many times would I have to add air to the tank in the span of 7 days? If it's like every 3-4 days I could live with that if it's every 24 - 36 hrs I might have to give up on this idea. Is the system you are using in the link that Bob posted above in the #2 post? Any pics of the set up?

Bob, I hate to go with 2 pumps but if I'm unable to accomplish setting up a system without a pump I might have to take the plunge. Any recommendations on good quiet reliable pumps for me to check out?

maybe with a tank of air you could do it with just gravity

Large res tank high up, and valves on the foggers so they only let water trough when the air is fired ? Still a pump or compressor sounds easier

So are you going for 25 to 100 micron water droplets ? full on aero 2.0 ?

I'm trying to get within the range of 30 - 80 micron. I've been doing LP aeroponics for a couple years. Even though I've have very successful grows with the low pressure system it wastes a lot of water and nutrients. I just feel it's time for me to move up the ladder and take the plunge into the world of HP Aeroponics. I'm trying to keep costs down and feel an accumulator tank with nutrient water and enough pressurized air should get me the results I need.

pot/head said:

Atomizer thanks for the reply. A question for you if I'm only using a burst of 1-2 seconds every 5 - 6 minutes how many times would I have to add air to the tank in the span of 7 days? If it's like every 3-4 days I could live with that if it's every 24 - 36 hrs I might have to give up on this idea. Is the system you are using in the link that Bob posted above in the #2 post? Any pics of the set up?

Bob, I hate to go with 2 pumps but if I'm unable to accomplish setting up a system without a pump I might have to take the plunge. Any recommendations on good quiet reliable pumps for me to check out?

Click to expand...

The air pressure would need to be topped up almost constantly because thats what is creating the water pressure. As you remove nutes from the tank the air expands to fill that space...and the air pressure drops cos with more space its less compressed. You cant get around Boyles law
I dont see why you need 2 pumps, I`ve used the same pump to charge my accumulator for years. I dont envisage it packing up anytime soon cos it only runs for 8 minutes a day max.
I wouldnt recommend AA for your situation as it isnt immune to power outages like HPA, 12v dc backup compressors could be used in a pinch but they`re silly loud and wouldnt last very long. and neither would the battery
You dont need compressed air for an standard accumulator except when setting the air precharge. I guess your planning to use a pressure vessel where the air and water arent seperated by a diaphragm or bladder?

Atomizer, the 2 pump idea was brought up by Bob as I said i was afraid the pump would fail due to mechanical failure. If I can get a pump at a reasonable price that would last 4 -5 years I might consider going that route. The idea of using a tank with 2 - 3 gallons of nutrient water then filled with air sounded like something that could possibly be done. You are correct it would be a pressure tank both air and water together not separated. Do you think it could be done or would I be wasting time and money on something that just won't work?

Its not a route i`d choose. Compressors are more expensive to buy and run than hp water pumps, they are usually not as quiet. The energy used by a water pump all comes back in the form of water pressure. With a compressor driven system, you`ll have to dump a full tank of compressed air everytime you need to refill it with nutes. Its hard to beat a 12v system equipped with a large accumulator, all you need is the pump, tank, timer, solenoid and pressure reducer. As the tank is manually charged you dont need a pressure switch or even a pressure relief valve. Fill the tank, unplug the pump and wait until its empty. Run drain to waste and everything stays clean, its the crap and bugs coming back from the chamber that causes the problems. The only thing my pump, tank and plumbing have ever seen is fresh clean nutes.

Atomizer, thanks again for pointing me in the right direction. I completely agree with letting all the used nutrient water run to waste in a high pressure system. In my recirculating low pressure system I use 2 filters and I still get crap coming back into the reservoir. A recirculating HP system would be a disaster ready to happen with constantly clogged sprayers.

I must say I disagree about that pothead... if you use a 5 micron filter bag on the pump inlet and maybe a 200 mesh in the drain of the root chamber, you shouldn't have any contaminants going back to the root chamber. That is, anything that could clog your pump... if you have a pathogen in your roots, well you'll have a hard time getting rid of it if it's DTW, but it's probably going to be harder if you recirculate... The best advantage of DTW for me is that you'd know exactly what you're feeding your plants, and it's always fresh
if you recirculate, no matter the system, nutes ratios change, ph changes, etc. HPA is the method that uses less nutrient solution, so running DTW isn't going to have such a big impact in your costs as it would if you were running an NFT system, of course... Atomizer, have you ever measured how much a single nozzle running at 1.2gph would waste? That is, in an optimized system, where you max the number of plants per number of nozzles...
That being said, if you were to be able to keep root chamber Temps below 70 degrees, I'd say you're golden even if you recirculate...

The waste, for want of a better word, is the extra nutes delivered per misting due to the nozzles not shutting down instantly, Its bad from a mist quality point of view as the pressure drops from maximum to nothing. Put a misting nozzle on the end of a 30ft hose and time how long it runs after you turn off the water In some cases DTW can waste less nutes than a recirculated setup, some growers religously dump the res weekly. Maintaining a recirculated res is similar to providing a desirable home for anything that happens along (or comes back), a nice warm, well aerated food supply thats not secure.

Bob, I would worry if I recirculated a HP system. Why take a chance of possibly having fine particles clog the sprayer? The past couple years half way into my grow with my LP system I always find fine particles inside the reservoir. I use 3 filters 1 located around the drain inside the 4X4 square rail tubing and 1 located just before the water enters the reservoir and the other is around the pump. The water I add to the reservoir get run through a filter and the nutrients also get poured in using a filter. Not sure what the rating is on the filters I use as I bought them in bulk a couple a years ago. I also replace them whenever I start a new grow. I thoroughly clean everything, replace all the tubing and still always end up seeing fine particles mid grow. Then the other problem finding tiny bugs (ants, knats etc...) floating or on the bottom of the reservoir. Since I grow outdoors this is an unavoidable problem. Since I'm using a LP system the fine particles won't clog the sprayers but I do have to clean them out after every grow. If these particles and dead bugs were in a HP system it would be a recipe for disaster with clogged sprayers and you come to find dead or dying plants. IMO it's just not worth the risk.

Well I can easily see that happening Atomizer, but I believe it can be done otherwise. Probably not for HPA, because of the low amount of nutrients that go to waste in DTW... it's probably more cost effective to run it DTW than to have a 1W/gal air pump and bubbler running all the time... if you're not recirculating, your water is RO, the res temp is below 70 degrees and you change it weekly, you could probably skip the bubbler all together...
I'm running, aside from my grove grows, a greenhouse for hydroponic lettuce on NFT... Running that kind of system without recirculating would be stupid, although it is often the case...
It's important to mention that if you're willing to add bio enhancers for the roots, such as trichoderma or mycorrizhae, in HPA the best way to do it would be to spray it on the roots directly, while on a recirculating system you can simply pour them in the reservoir. That is, if you want to (re)apply them in the vegetative or flowering phase.
In my experience, mycorrizhae can increase the root surface area almost as much as the hairs that grow thanks to HPA. I've never used them on HPA though, have you guys? If you want your colonies to grow healthy feeding the roots with humic and fulvic acid is the way to go, but how would you suggest on doing this? Would you mix it along with the nutes on the reservoir? If the whole point of not recirculating is keeping a sterile environment, wouldn't this be an issue?

Pothead, well I can assure you that if you had a 5 micron filter on the pump inlet your nozzles wouldn't be clogging, at least not because of particles that get sucked into the pump. That doesn't save them from salt buildup... But having thought of what Atomizer is saying, I don't see the purpose of recirculating HPA anymore.
However I'd recommend that filter even if you don't recirculate, because nutrients can become precipitates and they could clog the system, so I'm leaving a link for the bags I use, they're for filtrating gasoline and are easily washable:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B004F9IH0C/ref=pd_aw_sim_328_1?ie=UTF8&dpID=31g9TW2G9CL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL100_SR100,55_&refRID=1NDWM0E1BZJ45DZV0W16
It doesn't look the nicest, but if you're careful not to pour anything in the water within the bag, you will notice an improvement in the clogging...

Bob, thanks for that link I ordered 2 of them.

I used to use 1 micron bag filters. they are pretty good when new but tend to go a bit fluffy after a few trips through the washing machine. Another thing to watch is they are made from quite a thick material that absorbs a fair amount of water that doesnt all drain. When the filter bag dries out the nute residue remains in the material (basically powder), after a while it can build up to a level where it affects the nutes going through the bag. Keep the filters in a dark place or you`ll have algae growing in them If your nutes are 100% soluble you dont need to use one but they are still a handy thing to have around.