Can led compete with hid

ok so I got a few queries.

Can led lighting really improve yield. I'm not talking about grams per watt or light here Im talking about grams per square foot, meter whatever.

I know people are gonna say better spectrum from led etc. But forget that cos I know if I want a better spectrum il just go and buy a ceramic metal halide or multiple hid lamps.

For the purpose of this query I wanna state that this is purely about yield/area. Forget power consumption, life of the light, initial layout cost all of this is moot. Only yield/area matters. Even temperature has no beAring in this discussion.

So come on guys convince me.

The sales pitch and graphs shown sure make it seem like a no brainer but with some practical knowledge of how light works and the different wavelengths effects on plants, I can't understand how with the technology available right now LEDs can do something that hid cannot do in an identical space.

I'm not looking to pick a fight, I just want the truth. A lot of experienced members seem to be using led lights and I'd look forward to hearing from them. Thanks guys.

I'm not an experienced grower. I don't have any hands-on experience with HID/MH.

However, I think I can forecast the way this is going to go. You ONLY want to talk about yield/area. Electricity, heat, ventilation, ROI, etc. are all excluded.

Considering the nature of your question, I don't think you're going to get many LED'ers to commit.

Most of us DO have to factor in those other considerations. For myself, LED is the best technology currently available in a small space. I don't give a damn if HID or MH grows more weed, or even better weed. I'm not putting a big freaking heater in a small closet.

Yes DIY COBs can put a lot more photons in the canopy than 1000W DE HPS. I spose you could use a 1000W in a 3X3 if you really wanted to pound the canopy, but COBs could match that easily and they could do it in any size canopy from a PC micro grow to a greenhouse sized grow. If you wanted to prove the point you could turn the canopy into kale chips. BUT the law of diminishing returns really kicks in at high levels of PPFD. We were just discussing 1000W HPS vs CXB COB in this thread.

If you are talking about prefab LEDs only, check out the Optic Vero 360. It uses (4) Vero 29s at 2.15A for a total of 320W of dissipation, about 40% efficiency. Other companies will be jumping in with COB lamps in the near future including Area 51 I believe.

TBH, I am pulling about the same with a 600w draw LED as opposed to a 600w HPS with my set up but with less light pollution, less heat which ultimately leads to less smell, and no dip in quality of bud, no brainer for me.

Supra -
Do you think we've gotten to that point? I've been hanging around here for a while and it seems like most folks still aren't willing to say that LED can beat the others.

You sound pretty confident!!

Why we've to convnice you ?
Maybe you should convince us ,that HID lights can compete with LEDS ..

One Acinonyx jubatus-avatared dude tried to ,but without any success ...
Only thing we saw was his eyes changing colors ..
From green to red and vice-versa ..
Nothin' more ..

( We are used to BS ,anyway ...
Plenty LED grow light sellers ,have loads of BS to dispence,also ..)

Cheers.

@Mellodrama The way I see it, if we are focusing on up front cost primarily the 1000W DE HPS and 315W CMH are very high efficiency and relatively cheap. So they might be fair competition for the best commercial LEDs in that case.

But when it comes to DIY COB a lot of doors have opened up. We have 70-80% efficient CXA3590 COBs for vegging and 59% CXB3590s for flowering. Or if your goal is max intensity, you could run Vero29 at 2.47A with a $22 driver, get 95W out of each one and pack them in a tightly as you like.

sds, I had to google Acinonyx jubatus.

Then I had to think about that for a while.

You are one inscrutable dude.

stardustsailor said:

Why we've to convnice you ?
Maybe you should convince us ,that HID lights can compete with LEDS ..

One Acinonyx jubatus-avatared dude tried to ,but without any success ...
Only thing we saw was his eyes changing colors ..
From green to red and vice-versa ..
Nothin' more ..

( We are used to BS ,anyway ...
Plenty LED grow light sellers ,have loads of BS to dispence,also ..)

Cheers.

Click to expand...

Because you already know HID can compete with LED.

a mongo frog said:

Because you already know HID can compete with LED.

Click to expand...

Yeap ,in automobile head-lights ,they surely do ...
Other than that ,nope.

You do not want to talk about any nutritional substances of edible fruits/leaves
and the potency of medicinal herbs ,when grown in artificial environments under HID lights versus LEDs ...
Not with me ,at least ....

I've at my arsenal hundreds of researches and papers ,to dismantle any of possible arguments ...
So...
Be cautious on how you will-if you wish so- proceed further on this conversation ,brother ...
HIDs do grow edible and/or medicinal plants ...
And in some cases with better yields than of LEDs ..
But ...without taste ,aroma ,anti-oxidants ,vitamins ,flavonoids,terpenes ,THC ! , etc ...

They do grow "empty " vegetables ,fruits and flowers ...

Compete with solid state lighting ?
Not even close enough ...

Your turn ..

Cheers.

A lot of insightful posts here lads but let's not turn this into a dick swinging contest. The only real answer I want is whether an unlimited amount of led in a given area will beat an unlimited amount of hid in the same Area. Yield/area only.

im acctually decided on buying a small led for my veg cab. I do understand they are very efficient in some ways. I understand the reason why people buy them and I understand the reason I'm about to buy one. But I also understand why I use hid lighting and for me to change to led for flowering it would need to be for one reason only.... Higher yield over a the same area. Space is my only limiting factor.

Blue brother said:

A lot of insightful posts here lads but let's not turn this into a dick swinging contest. The only real answer I want is whether an unlimited amount of led in a given area will beat an unlimited amount of hid in the same Area. Yield/area only.

im acctually decided on buying a small led for my veg cab. I do understand they are very efficient in some ways. I understand the reason why people buy them and I understand the reason I'm about to buy one. But I also understand why I use hid lighting and for me to change to led for flowering it would need to be for one reason only.... Higher yield over a the same area. Space is my only limiting factor.

Click to expand...

Since you're interested only for yields ,better stay where you are .
Stay with HIDs ....

When you'll realise that there are other things than pounds ,
maybe then you will be ready to experience a more potent mj ...
And inevitably change to LEDs...

Until then ,enjoy your HID-massive yields ...
You're not ready yet .
I can judge that already ,from the way and the words chosen ,to make your questions ..

"only real answer I want is whether an unlimited amount of led in a given area will beat an unlimited amount of hid in the same Area. Yield/area only."

?????

Theoritical questions do get theoritical answers ...

HIDs all the way for ya,bro ....
Do not enter in the unknown-to you -fields of the Solid State Lighting ...
Only for the brave .
Stay away .
Take that as a friendly advice .


Cheers.

If yield is your main concern , know that other factors of your grow can impact yield of plant. ( nutes , stress , enviroment , etc. )

stardustsailor said:

Yeap ,in automobile head-lights ,they surely do ...
Other than that ,nope.

You do not want to talk about any nutritional substances of edible fruits/leaves
and the potency of medicinal herbs ,when grown in artificial environments under HID lights versus LEDs ...
Not with me ,at least ....

I've at my arsenal hundreds of researches and papers ,to dismantle any of possible arguments ...
So...
Be cautious on how you will-if you wish so- proceed further on this conversation ,brother ...
HIDs do grow edible and/or medicinal plants ...
And in some cases with better yields than of LEDs ..
But ...without taste ,aroma ,anti-oxidants ,vitamins ,flavonoids,terpenes ,THC ! , etc ...

They do grow "empty " vegetables ,fruits and flowers ...

Compete with solid state lighting ?
Not even close enough ...

Your turn ..

Cheers.

Click to expand...

In no way was i down playing LED. I love LED lighting. I love all the guys on here building LED lamps. My favorite people on this forum are the ones building their own lamps. I like you too, however its not cool to try to talk down to me, and embarrass me here. Cuz once Church and Supra and that crew master what their doing, I'm there. Again i absolutely lover LED. Now the part where you said it was my turn, like you were going to try to embarrass me some more. Do you even test your THC? Or are you just running your mouth to try and make me look bad? Heres my latest test results. Just the other day actually. I love all you guys, so please don't try to sand bag me.

Mellodrama said:

Supra -
Do you think we've gotten to that point? I've been hanging around here for a while and it seems like most folks still aren't willing to say that LED can beat the others.

You sound pretty confident!!

Click to expand...

Check out green genes garden thread in led section. That was all I needed to get my mouth watering over cobs

a mongo frog said:

In no way was i down playing LED. I love LED lighting. I love all the guys on here building LED lamps. My favorite people on this forum are the ones building their own lamps. I like you too, however its not cool to try to talk down to me, and embarrass me here. Cuz once Church and Supra and that crew master what their doing, I'm there. Again i absolutely lover LED. Now the part where you said it was my turn, like you were going to try to embarrass me some more. Do you even test your THC? Or are you just running your mouth to try and make me look bad? Heres my latest test results. Just the other day actually. I love all you guys, so please don't try to sand bag me.

Click to expand...

He-he-he ...
It worked ,though ...

I'm not trying to " embarrass" you or anybody else ...
What should I've to gain from doing so ,afterall ?

Anyway ..Your quote was somewhat misleading ...

" Because you already know HID can compete with LED. "

No ,i do not know that actually .
I've been growing weed for more than 5 years with HID lights and almost 5 years with LEDs ...
Still ,I've not been able to see any points ,where HIDs compete with LEDs ..
Total different techs and approaches ..

With total different results .

BTW ...
Nice test results ..
From HIDs or LEDs ?

(Edit : In case of HID lights were used to grow the plants that gave those results ..
You already know ,what the response will be ,don't you ?
...
A single result ,does not mean much ...
Show me both results of same plant(s) / strain ,grown under HIDs
versus LEDs ..And then ..Oh,then we 'd probably not having this conversation at all ...
To save you some time and effort ...GG already has done that ...Guess who's the " winner " ...
And yes ..I'm doing my own tests ...I usually use this kit :
http://www.thctestkits.com/

Although lately i'm considering these ones too :
http://cannalyticssupply.com/products/
http://montanabiotech.com/thc-cbd-test-kits/

..Still ....
I've other things in priority ,which i like posting about ,my dear friend..
The kind of ones you like ,too ....)


Cheers.

There is no point in trying to see which light system is better.
All light systems have their pros and cons. HID systems are the norm as far as most used system. I have grown full harvest with LED and even CFL . There is negliable difference in final product. If you provide the lumens your plant needs that is all that matters.

LED grows are perfect for most indoor , cabinet style areas. HID throw off a wider light pattern with highest lumen output ( perfect for larger grows ) but combine heat and exhaust needs. For each individual grow situation , it's best to configure your light needs to YOUR GROW AREA , Not how much light you can cram into a space. HID systems are getting very affordable with some 1000w systems around $200.

I use G8 450w and 2 Mars Hydro 600w series II . For me it's about temps and space.
I also run a home built ( 8 100w CFL Lamp in hood ) setup . This one actually I tend to use often because I can mix bulb wavelengths in any combo ( 4 2700k and 4 5000k ) or straight full 6400k/5000k/2700k. T5 lamps were my least favorite , however the wide light field is great.

Look at what YOUR NEEDS are. Forget what is the best , look for what's best FOR YOU.

stardustsailor said:

He-he-he ...
It worked ,though ...

I'm not trying to " embarrass" you or anybody else ...
What should I've to gain from doing so ,afterall ?

Anyway ..Your quote was somewhat misleading ...

" Because you already know HID can compete with LED. "

No ,i do not know that actually .
I've been growing weed for more than 5 years with HID lights and almost 5 years with LEDs ...
Still ,I've not been able to see any points ,where HIDs compete with LEDs ..
Total different techs and approaches ..

With total different results .

BTW ...
Nice test results ..
From HIDs or LEDs ?

(Edit : In case of HID lights were used to grow th plants that gave those results ..
You already know ,what the response will be ,don't you ?
...
A single result ,does not mean much ...
Show me both results of same plant(s) / strain ,grown under HIDs
versus LEDs ..And then ..Oh,then we 'd probably not having this conversation at all ...
To save you some time and effort ...GG already has done that ...Guess who's the " winner " ...
And yes ..I'm doing my own tests ...I usually use this kit :
http://www.thctestkits.com/
..Still ....I've other things ,which i like posting about ,my dear friend..The kind of ones you like ....)


Cheers.

Click to expand...

GG is most likely a better gardener then me friend. Why are you still trying to sand bag me? Your acting nuts bro. I love you guys, i love LED lighting. Please stop.

" Why are you still trying to sand bag me? Your acting nuts bro "

Since english ain't my native language and that increases the chances of what you're saying might be true,
please take a moment and show me the exact words or phrases ,
that I've used that indeed show that either i'm trying to
"sand bag " you or either I'm "acting nuts" ..Please .
I do want a better person out of myself ...
Help a brother ,to see his mistakes .

Cheers.

stardustsailor said:

Since you're interested only for yields ,better stay where you are .
Stay with HIDs ....

When you'll realise that there are other things than pounds ,
maybe then you will be ready to experience a more potent mj ...
And inevitably change to LEDs...

Until then ,enjoy your HID-massive yields ...
You're not ready yet .
I can judge that already ,from the way and the words chosen ,to make your questions ..

"only real answer I want is whether an unlimited amount of led in a given area will beat an unlimited amount of hid in the same Area. Yield/area only."

?????

Theoritical questions do get theoritical answers ...

HIDs all the way for ya,bro ....
Do not enter in the unknown-to you -fields of the Solid State Lighting ...
Only for the brave .
Stay away .
Take that as a friendly advice .


Cheers.

Click to expand...

I agree with this.............The op's questions makes that loud and clear==== stick with HID, it still works very effectively

troll thread incoming