Matt Rize
Hashmaster
better is to saturate some media with DO water, then squeeze it out and test the water. Run-off is usually fertigation solution and cannot be a reliable judge for media pH.
Can you adjust water PH Organically?
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Medi 1
Well-Known Member
thats basicaly going to give the same reading as doing run off. and if you term of fertigation means the food in the medium...ya we want to know that with the pH levls so we know what to do. both ec and pH should be read for run off if we have issues. reading both numbers will tell us why its out. is it food or was it just to wet all the time.
if the ph is low and ec is high then we know theres a build up of foods. if ec is low and ph is low then its hungry and it was bad waterings most liley was the cause. the food in the medium effects the ph.
and weather you squeeze a handfull or run out the bottom it both will read the effrect of the foods. how do you keep the food out of that handfull you squeeae if not. and that way also onkly tells whats on the surface as you cant dig down into the root system without hurting the plant
if the ph is low and ec is high then we know theres a build up of foods. if ec is low and ph is low then its hungry and it was bad waterings most liley was the cause. the food in the medium effects the ph.
and weather you squeeze a handfull or run out the bottom it both will read the effrect of the foods. how do you keep the food out of that handfull you squeeae if not. and that way also onkly tells whats on the surface as you cant dig down into the root system without hurting the plant
businessmen
Active Member
Some people suggest letting a tbl of soil soak with tbl of water for 30 min or more then testing water. Thats how the soil test kits do it. That makes sense, because it has time to change. But the soil does change the ph of runoff instantly. I put in 7.5 and got out 6.0. So I guess runoff should work.
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
the point would be to find out what is going on in your media before feeding. so RO water is neutral and can be used to find out where your media is at before feeding. then you can adjust your food accordingly without waiting for run-off. if there is already a problem, waiting for the next feeding (especially because the system isn't working) is silly and not needed to find out where your media is, pH and EC.
your fertigation solution (water and food) has a marginal affect on soil pH and soil solution. Soil-less organic media (coco/peat/barks) run-off is more accurate as the soil-less organic media do not buffer like a true soil.
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
yeah, soil test kits exist because testing run off for real soil is not an accurate measure. i've done soil lab tests and they reveal much different numbers than run-off tests. Run off usually is just your fertigation solution that ran straight through the media, having practically no time to exchange ions with the media and soil solution.
Medi 1
Well-Known Member
R/O is not nutral. 7 is nutral and all R/O i see is about 6.5
soil kuits exist cause people dont know any better.
the only time id want to test run off is if there was an issue. i diont do it each time to determine what foods to use. the plant tells me that without testing the medium. and nobody said anything about having to wait till next time after a run off test to fix anything...why wait??
you guys even know what buffer means. i see alot that think it means no need to ph as the medium does this for us..not ture. it helps but cant always do what it is meant to do.
soil kuits exist cause people dont know any better.
the only time id want to test run off is if there was an issue. i diont do it each time to determine what foods to use. the plant tells me that without testing the medium. and nobody said anything about having to wait till next time after a run off test to fix anything...why wait??
you guys even know what buffer means. i see alot that think it means no need to ph as the medium does this for us..not ture. it helps but cant always do what it is meant to do.
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
healthy balanced soil will buffer just fine unless you overdo the ferts. thats why everyone has problems, they push it. RO water gives great readings because it has no dissolved solids and takes on the properties of whatever you put in it. They have a class called soil science in most colleges for a reason, and its all about dissolving soil in RO (actually DO but whatever). If you had taken this class you would understand why soil test kits are important and why run off is BS. fertigation solution water tension, run through, time, soil solution water tension, tap water alkalinity ect. I am not suggesting to stop testing run off, but suggesting an actual soil test with RO is more accurate assesment of your plants home, and cheap/easy.
And yes, I only check my soil pH before the cycle, and if there is a problem. If there is a problem I don't water again and check my run off, I check the actual soil for an accurate reading of my soil pH.
do a test with your RO, put 1 drop of pH 7.0 calibration solution in it, test again. the thing is taking pH readings on RO water is deceptive. I would bet your water is close to 7.0
Medi 1
Well-Known Member
well i ask our own soil biologist for my answers or the guys in the back that make our nutes for more info. ill listen to them and my grows as tis been fine for me for over 20 years this way.
and i never said anything is bad or wrong about R/O water.
when i do my checks and i am usulay right with the ph being ouit when i see issues then once i get the readings i want i set the foods or just water if build up has occured and i fix it right then.
and there is alot more to the ph being out than over feeding.
why would i want to pay for old tech in skool with old books when we have our own biologists and bio chemist here for free....with new up to date info. ive taken some skoolin and alot still use old books as its to cotlsy to make the new updated ones. im not sayin you or the tech dont know shit but alot is old info. and theres more than 1 way to grow if you learned anything in skool to
and i never said anything is bad or wrong about R/O water.
when i do my checks and i am usulay right with the ph being ouit when i see issues then once i get the readings i want i set the foods or just water if build up has occured and i fix it right then.
and there is alot more to the ph being out than over feeding.
why would i want to pay for old tech in skool with old books when we have our own biologists and bio chemist here for free....with new up to date info. ive taken some skoolin and alot still use old books as its to cotlsy to make the new updated ones. im not sayin you or the tech dont know shit but alot is old info. and theres more than 1 way to grow if you learned anything in skool to
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
you are funny
there are as many ways to grow as there are growers. probably more ways than growers.
Medi 1
Well-Known Member
yup...and i think this is all being over thought. in mediums isnt an exact science. way to many variables. like day to night will even give different readings as the microbial fungi give off diff pH from day jobs to night jobs or their rest time. the types of foods we use and lots more. i wasnt ever trying to say the soil testers are wrong or off but i get the same answer when i do it with a reg pH pen. so to me its just a sales gimik.
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
i just want to add that for those who can't afford a pen, the little kits are better than nothing, whether you test soil or run off. or preferably both
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
totally off topic, but i've been helping some folks out and seems like the ones with problems don't have pens. someone asked me how many tablespoons of pH down to use... argh
Medi 1
Well-Known Member
same here dood....99% of the issues i see all over the net is cause of no pH. i even see some missunderstanding what buffered means and say we dont need to ph if its a buffered medium. the tighter or more accurate we keep the pH the less foods we need to use....saves us all cash and get same end results
businessmen
Active Member
Like someone said it's hard to get a good sample of soil out of your pot without damaging roots. Think I'll try to get a tbl and soak w tbl water and test To compare to runoff
durbanmistyman
Well-Known Member
my general organics CaMg+, made of calcium carbonate and magnesium carbonate, should raise the ph of my solution correct?
durbanmistyman
Well-Known Member
no dude lemon juice is acidic im trying to raise ph