Can you confirm my diagnosis? (pics)

This plant is 49 days from seed, day 21 of 12/12. Hairs showed on day 12 of 12/12. Planted was obviously topped, one week before flowering. 2ft tall.

Too much Nitrogen is my diagnosis. I say this because of the 'clawing', burnt tips and overall dark green color. Ocean Forest and Happy Frog mix with perlite. Run off always shows about 6.0 or below with a dropper type test kit (aquarium kind), but I always pH everything to 6.8 (water/feed). Jack's Classic 20-20-20 (1/4tsp per gal, used twice).

Some of the leaves may be something different or just an advanced stage of too much N? If I take the plant out of the cabinet, it has a very 'green' smell to it, very strong. Don't know if that is normal (only my second grow), but don't remember my first plant smelling like that.

I just flushed her and plan on just feeding water for awhile.

Well, here's the pics. Let me know what you think.

I agree that you probably have too much nitrate going on. You will also benefit from an increase of phosphate. Adding a bloom supplement and cutting back your primary nutrients would be a good idea.

Looks like phosphorus deficiency. It looks like P is absorbed between 6.5 and 7.0 raise the Ph to 6.5 and give her a light dose of all purpose.

Nitrogen deficiency produces more whole leaf yellowing. That curling under with the yellowing leaf edges is Potassium deficiency. There's a chance that the crispy leaf tips is from a slight Phosphorus deficiency but you'll want to focus primarily on the K.

Agreed, you went the right route with flushing, because even if the problem hasn't been pinpointed, exactly, it'll give you a fresh start, weith a clean medium. My suggestion to you, is to pick up some bloom fert. That'll cover both possible problems, whether it be too much N, or too little P. My guess, is that it's nutelock, locking out the potassium. Looks like fertburn too, which would reinforce your "high Nitrogen" theory, and and the P deficiency, if it were nutelock from overfert. Could also be overfert, and, a magnesium deficiency, and/or, due to the PH being low(magnesium is one of the first to lock out, due to low PH). At any rate, flushing was the right thing to do, IMO. Flushing in a couple tbsps of powdered lime, would've even been better.


Also, that pots looks pretty small. A transplant would help you alot, even though flowering has already started. The plant will practically fix itself.

i would have to agree and say your overfeeding them, you should flush them with plain water and then feed at 50%

It appears that I left out that I do have Jack's Bloom too, without looking I believe it's 10-30-20. Sorry about that, baked.

I fed it veg food last at about the start week 2 of 12/12. Was then going to switch to the flower fert. I'm also using ro/di water and use Calmag.

I did pick up some soil sweetner (asked for dolomite lime and lady handed me that). How should I go about adding that to get the pH up so soon after flushing? Let the pot dry out and water it in?

The pot size is 5 quart. I could move her into a 3.3 gal pot I have. About the same height, just wider. Should I go ahead and transplant into that and just fill in with fresh soil?

Thanks for the help!

where did u get that chart? i have always herd, cerevantes himself, soil is 6-6.3.... just wondering?

chef c said:

where did u get that chart? i have always herd, cerevantes himself, soil is 6-6.3.... just wondering?

Click to expand...

The internet I have been seeing it a lot lately it seems to be pretty accurate, but I never like to contradict Cervantes he knows all.

whynot said:

This plant is 49 days from seed, day 21 of 12/12. Hairs showed on day 12 of 12/12. Planted was obviously topped, one week before flowering. 2ft tall.

Too much Nitrogen is my diagnosis. I say this because of the 'clawing', burnt tips and overall dark green color. Ocean Forest and Happy Frog mix with perlite. Run off always shows about 6.0 or below with a dropper type test kit (aquarium kind), but I always pH everything to 6.8 (water/feed). Jack's Classic 20-20-20 (1/4tsp per gal, used twice).

Some of the leaves may be something different or just an advanced stage of too much N? If I take the plant out of the cabinet, it has a very 'green' smell to it, very strong. Don't know if that is normal (only my second grow), but don't remember my first plant smelling like that.

I just flushed her and plan on just feeding water for awhile.

Well, here's the pics. Let me know what you think.

View attachment 1244713View attachment 1244714View attachment 1244712View attachment 1244709View attachment 1244710View attachment 1244711

Click to expand...

whynot,

This grow I had one Silver Haze and two Mango/Neville's Haze x's that did something similar to what you have pictured. I didn't get the amount of leaf scorching like you did but they got real dark green with the leaf blades being cupped and clawed under. My guess was also to much Nitrogen and I just backed off on feeding those 3 plants. While the affected leaves never did lighten back up in color or flaten back out it didn't get any worse or progress into the kind of scorching/burn like you've got. I also gave my 3 plants a good flushing when I first noticed this happening.

Like you I'm also using Jack's Classic (20-20-20) this grow and the few times I've given it, it's been at 1/4 tsp (1.25 ml) / gallon strength.

You didn't say what strain your plant was but judging from the leaf shape I'm guessing it's a more Sativa dominant one. Both my SH and Mango/Neville's Haxe x have the same looking thinner leaf blades that your plant does. According to the web site where the Mango/Neville's Haze seeds came from it's a 80/20 Sativa/Indica strain.

The rest of my grow this time is made up of 15 plants of the Allegria strain. Which according to the label on the seed package is a 20/80 Sativa/Indica mix. These plants (besides being shorter and more compact) have much broader leaf blades. These plants have had a tendency to get a little to light green and have a couple of their lower leaves yellow out and fall off. I've been giving these plants a little more of the Jack's Classic in order to keep that from getting out of hand.

So what it's looking like to me is that there might be some kind of fundemental difference in the fertilizer requirments between Indica dominant and Sativa dominant strains.

Also I don't think that this problem is 100% Nitrogen level related. There's some other things in play here too. And all though a lot of people keep mentioning Phosphorus deficentcy some of my reading is begining to make me think to much P might also be the problem in a lot of these fertilizer related problems. Phosphorus is one of those things that if used in excess will tie up a lot of other things (Mg for one) and make it unavailable to the plant.

One thing I wanted to caution you about is relying on the accuracy of your aquarium test kit when checking your run off water. Since the water that runs out of the bottom is very rarely ever clear and usually has a yellow cast to it I think it may be falsely indicating that your soil is more acidic than it really is. That type of ph testing depends on a comparison to a color chart (with the yellow shades indicating the more acidic and the blue ones the more alkaline) so it would seem logical to me that unless you start with a clear sample (no color tint to it at all) you're going to get a skewed, inacurate result.

Some one mentioned transplanting to a bigger container and getting some more fresh potting mix around the roots. I also think that's a really good idea.

Jack

I started 2 seeds, one bag seed and one G-13 White Widow. Apparently the WW didn't like the same feeding of nutes that the bagseed did and burned it up and pulled it, so this is a bag seed. This is the same seed I did on my first grow, and that plant also was very dark green and people said too much N. But that plant was much 'shinnier'. Link to that grow with lots of pics. https://www.rollitup.org/cfl-growing/337305-first-grow-hows-lookin.html

I have been thinking that the aquarium test isn't giving an accurate reading, always a 'yellow' hue to it. I do have a pH monitor on my aquarium, going to check the next run off with that.

I think I am going to transplant to the bigger pot. How would you suggest I proceed after the transplant?

chef c said:

where did u get that chart? i have always herd, cerevantes himself, soil is 6-6.3.... just wondering?

Click to expand...

Actually, it's more like 6.0-7.0. All will work well, although most shoot for the mid/upper range. Personally, I keep everything at 6.8, never give anything lower than 6.6, and my plants are happy as hell. See my most recent pics, in the link below, if you have any doubts.

whynot said:

I started 2 seeds, one bag seed and one G-13 White Widow. Apparently the WW didn't like the same feeding of nutes that the bagseed did and burned it up and pulled it, so this is a bag seed. This is the same seed I did on my first grow, and that plant also was very dark green and people said too much N. But that plant was much 'shinnier'. Link to that grow with lots of pics. https://www.rollitup.org/cfl-growing/337305-first-grow-hows-lookin.html

I have been thinking that the aquarium test isn't giving an accurate reading, always a 'yellow' hue to it. I do have a pH monitor on my aquarium, going to check the next run off with that.

I think I am going to transplant to the bigger pot. How would you suggest I proceed after the transplant?

Click to expand...

After you transplant, give it a good thorough watering, which'll help ease the roots into their new environment, and allow them to spread. I wouldn't give them anything but straight water, because that fresh soil will have plenty of nutrients to keep the plant happy. After that, chill out for about a week, and you'll see a noticeable improvement. It should be very obvious, and this point, is when the plant is starting to build flowers, the time when you want maximum health. It'll probably double your yield, had you chosen not to transplant. You'll be able to start feeding, lightly, in about 10-14 days, and remember....it's always better to feed less, more often, than more at one time. Underfert is easier to correct, than overfert.

HM...Whats you EC (ppm) level?Runnoff i mean?You flushed your plants before they went into flower?Couse that could be a nutt burn. And i wouldnt transplant them Not in flower, shock just might end your grow Test your runoff ec (ppm) level, flush the lady if you didnt allready and try to keep down the nutriens. Its hard to say whats wrong just by pictures and info you gave.

^I've transplanted the same day I went to 12/12, many times, and never had a problem. They thanked me, personally, actually.lol


Also, flushing is always a good thing. I'd flush every month, if I had the ambition.

jawbrodt said:

^I've transplanted the same day I went to 12/12, many times, and never had a problem. They thanked me, personally, actually.lol


Also, flushing is always a good thing. I'd flush every month, if I had the ambition.

Click to expand...

jaw,

Being as I grow from seed I always do a final upcan to a larger pot after I'm sure it's a female plant. This usually happens 7 to 12 days after switching to 12/12. And I always scuff up my root ball when doing this. I've never had it "shock" or set back a plant. On the contrary (like you said) they seem to love it and always take off growing good.

@ whynot....I agree with jawbrodt, after transplanting just water it (correctly) and watch it for a week or two before giving it any thing else.

Jack

Well, I did the transplant and it went smooth. Always worried about screwing it up. Roots were white and swirling around the bottom. I haven't checked the TDS of the runoff.

I'm wondering if I should water in some of the soil sweetner now or not?

whynot said:

Well, I did the transplant and it went smooth. Always worried about screwing it up. Roots were white and swirling around the bottom. I haven't checked the TDS of the runoff.

Click to expand...

whynot,

Glad the transplant went smoothly for you. And it sounds like you had a healthy root system going. Did you "loosen up" those pot bound roots at the bottom a little bit? (I would have).

I really don't know how knowing the TDS of your run-off is going to help you. Water is kind of the universal solvent and is really good at disolving a wide range of things and moving them along in solution or suspension (like out the bottom of a container full of fresh potting mixl). I would expect water that's just been filtered thru a container of potting mix to be high in TDS. And with out knowing what those "disolved solids" are composed of how are you going to use that information to adjust what you give the plant?

As a "container" grower I think about the only really useful thing to know about "TDS" is to have some idea of what the starting TDS is of the water you're using to water with. And also to have some idea of what those "disolved solids" are composed of. If you're using RO, distilled or water from most any Municipal water supply in the US the TDS of it is not really going to be a negative factor that will have much influence on your grow one way or the other.

Since I live out in the country and have a well I took a sample of my water to the local Culligan store for the free analysis they offer. What I found out was that it's 39 grains hard, has 0 ppm Iron and a TDS 1480. And from using my aquarium test kit I know it has a ph of 7.2. While I don't know the exact make up of that 1480 TDS I'm assuming it's mostly Calcium compounds. And although Calcium is a necessary plant nutrient, to much of it can tie up the other things a plant needs.

For years I packed my plant water from the machine in the local WallMart and didn't have any problems with it. But as that got to be kind of a tedious chore I started catching rain water off of the roof to use. About the only thing I really know about it with any degree of certainity is that it's ph is 6.8. I've just been assuming that it's TDS is way lower than my well water and is probably comparibale (TDS wise) to RO or distilled water.

As to adding some soil "sweetner" (dolomitic or "garden" lime).... top dressing with a tabelspoon or so of it before your next watering probably won't hurt any thing. But if you just transplanted to a bigger container with a bunch of fresh potting mix and got all the new mix thouroughly saturated when you watered it in I'm guessing the next time you need to water that plant will be at least 5 to 7 days in the future. For now I'd just leave well enough alone and see what happens.

The other thing I do when transplanting (up-canning) is to give them a little SuperThrive (1/4 teaspoon / gallon) in that first watering. It's a root stimulant and seems to help them really start building new roots out into the fresh soil and the plant take off growing.

Jack

it doesnt even look too bad to me.. but im too new to get into all the nitro and stuff. but, i do think that u shuld transplant it into a bigger pot. they say 1gal for every1month the plant is gunna be alive in there... so.... that 3.3 is better for her