Cannabis religion

greenleafhigh

Well-Known Member
Ok i have seen this before but thought nothing of it but i made a couple more lookis at it and could this be like legit?? there out of hawaii but in there testmoneis they have people from texas ohio and utah just take a look and tell me anyhing and everything you think aout it
Thanks
Greenleafhighbongsmilie
 

mrbuzzsaw

Well-Known Member
Ok i have seen this before but thought nothing of it but i made a couple more lookis at it and could this be like legit?? there out of hawaii but in there testmoneis they have people from texas ohio and utah just take a look and tell me anyhing and everything you think aout it
Thanks
Greenleafhighbongsmilie
i have an old friend Craig X is what he goes by now
he started a religion
he has been on Weeds.
he is in the throws of a legal battle right now
i should call him and ask how he is doing
 

jsn9333

Well-Known Member
I use cannabis as part of my Christian faith. I believe early Jews and Christians used cannabis in various forms. I feel it brings me closer to Christ. I have looked into what protection this might afford me in court (if ever arrested), and the answer is, sadly, very little.

Federal Courts have, in some instances, allowed illegal drug use for religious purposes. One case involved Rastafari followers using cannabis. Another involved American Indians using Peyote.

However, State courts do not have to follow Federal precedent. In a leading case (City of Boerne v. Flores 521 U.S. 507, 117 S.Ct. 2157 (1997)), the Supreme Court says that States do not have to follow the RFRA (Religious Freedoms Restoration Act) which Federal Courts have used to allow illegal drug use for religious purposes. Essentially, States get to choose what "freedom of religion" means apart from how the Federal authorities define it as far as illegal drug use is concerned.

North Carolina, my State, has not been friendly. In one NC case, State v. Carignan 178 N.C.App. 562, 631 S.E.2d 892 (Table) N.C.App.,2006. Jul 18, 2006, the state supreme court rejected the defendants defense for his possession of marijuana that he was a religious user. Defendant claimed at trial that for several months prior to his arrest, he had been involved with the "Hawaiian Cannabis Ministry," which, according to defendant, "regards the actual consumption of cannabis as prayer [and] a form of worship." Essentially, the NC supreme court decided that North Carolina was under no obligation to follow Federal precedent under the RFRA, and the NC constitution allowed the police to enforce all drug laws regardless of religion.

I don't have time to look into every State's precedent, and some states may not have approached the issue yet. But generally most States would reject any sort of religious use defense. And most of the time you would end up in State Court, not Federal Court. And even in Federal Court, you would have to do a lot to prove you use religiously... the assumption would be that you use recreationally and you would have to have a lot of documentation and evidence that cannabis is part of your religion.

As far as legal protection, living in a State that has medical laws allowing cannabis and getting a "card" or "license" in one of those states is a much safer way to use legally then trying any sort of religious defense in court.
 

greenleafhigh

Well-Known Member
wow that is pretty much exctly what i wanted to hear thanks but how did you find out of past court that where fought in you state?? but thanks for the great info given jsn9333:bigjoint:
 

jsn9333

Well-Known Member
wow that is pretty much exctly what i wanted to hear thanks but how did you find out of past court that where fought in you state?? but thanks for the great info given jsn9333:bigjoint:
I'm a law student. Therefore I have free access to subscription only legal information databases with state specific case law (Westlaw and Lexis), and I'm trained in using them.

If you want to know how your state has dealt with this legal issue, let me know what state you're in and maybe if I have some spare time some day I can look it up.
 

Qnh Bsm

Active Member
Excerpt from Amendment I, Constitution of the United States of America..

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

From a legal standpoint the crux of the matter is...

1) Is your religious belief a sincere belief?
2) Are you a member of an organized religion, and if so does that religion's doctrine mandate or allow the action as part of worship or ceremony either as a group or as an individual?

For instance; A jewish high priest, making the holy annointing oil as described in Exodus, Chapter 30, Torah

Of course, that's here in the United States of America.
 

theloadeddragon

Well-Known Member
re·li·gion
Audio Help /rɪˈlɪdʒ
ən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ri-lij-uh
n] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1.a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs. 2.a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion. 3.the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions. 4.the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion. 5.the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith. 6.something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice. 7.religions, Archaic. religious rites. 8.Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow. —Idiom9.get religion, Informal. a.to acquire a deep conviction of the validity of religious beliefs and practices. b.to resolve to mend one's errant ways: The company got religion and stopped making dangerous products.
We are all protected from prosecution by our constitutional rights by simply smoking herb we are including it in our religious practices, no matter what religion it is, recognized or not, and that will hold out it court so long as you are well versed and have some rhetorical skill...
 

theloadeddragon

Well-Known Member
Excerpt from Amendment I, Constitution of the United States of America..

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

From a legal standpoint the crux of the matter is...

1) Is your religious belief a sincere belief?
2) Are you a member of an organized religion, and if so does that religion's doctrine mandate or allow the action as part of worship or ceremony either as a group or as an individual?

For instance; A jewish high priest, making the holy annointing oil as described in Exodus, Chapter 30, Torah

Of course, that's here in the United States of America.
It is not a requirement that you be a member of an organized religion (organization) indeed, you can have your own religion, and follow it rigorously, so long as it is documented...
Christians are forgiven by Christ for their sins right? So if Cannabis consumption is a sin (which I don't see it as, especially if eating is the main form of consumption) then Jesus will forgive you for it, and sinning is part of our daily activities due to the current social status. So we sin to be forgiven, God Judges me, yatta yatta...

My religion is life: There is no written doctrine for life, and life is full of endless possibilities and the unknown, thus the Doctrine for life is merely our awareness of life, and our ability to perceive life's realities and infer our observations to others... there is what there is, and what we do with what there is, is our choice. So my choice is to use and medicate with cannabis, that falls within the "doctrine" of my religion, and I believe firmly and completely in life and what I know of its Doctrine... we are all part of life, and therefore part of it as a religion, as we know nothing but our perceptions of our lives. I feel completely confident that my religion will hold up in court, I would just probably take longer and more care in explaining it mare articulately.

I really need to get back into the academic world...
 

jsn9333

Well-Known Member
Excerpt from Amendment I, Constitution of the United States of America..

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

From a legal standpoint the crux of the matter is...

1) Is your religious belief a sincere belief?
2) Are you a member of an organized religion, and if so does that religion's doctrine mandate or allow the action as part of worship or ceremony either as a group or as an individual?

For instance; A jewish high priest, making the holy annointing oil as described in Exodus, Chapter 30, Torah

Of course, that's here in the United States of America.
I agree that smoking cannabis is a religious issue, and I believe Exodus is a key verse linking Christianity to cannabis also. However, neither my opinion (nor yours) matters to the Court. The Supreme Court, ultimately, interprets the constitution. You can never know for sure how the court will rule, but you can know with 99% accuracy by looking at how they ruled in the past (b/c they try to stay consistent).

All I can tell you is that the Supreme Court has declared in past cases that States can deprive people of their religious liberty to smoke marijuana. If you are charged by the Feds, you have a chance at getting off with the religious argument, because there the Federal Courts are the Courts of first instance (where you're trial takes place). That means a *federal* judge oversees the trial. But if you are charged under state law (you are tried by a State judge, not a federal one) that is another story.

I'm just telling you how the Supreme Court has ruled. State judges can ignore your religious freedom to smoke pot, and the Supreme court will not overturn their decisions. I know its fucked up, but that is how it is.

My state is one of the states that has taken advantage of this and actually does it. People have been convicted, appealed with all their proof of organized religion and longheld traditional beliefs and practices... and the Supreme Court said fuck off. It's a states rights issue, and the states have the right to deny us that particular freedom if they want to.

Most every state does deny its citizens that right, I think. If you want to test it out in your state, be my guest. Or if you have a case where a Federal judge overturned a state's denial of the religious freedom to smoke pot, I'd love to see it.
 

theloadeddragon

Well-Known Member
Medical patients being prosecuted on the federal level should know that.... I wish they would take advantage of it... because using alternative medicines is part of virtually every religion, including Christianity!
 

jsn9333

Well-Known Member
Medical patients being prosecuted on the federal level should know that.... I wish they would take advantage of it... because using alternative medicines is part of virtually every religion, including Christianity!
That is an *excellent* point. Even the Federal courts do look very intensely into what religion it is though. If someone just started their own "cannabis christian club" I doubt it would pass muster. It'd be worth a try... especially if you could get the court to look into it before actually getting arrested, like get the DA to threaten arrest or something.

They're best bet would be to claim Rastafarianism, since that religion has a historical record that is very clear and has case law precedent in the Federal Courts. It is close to Christianity in a lot of ways too (especially certain sections of it).

It is sad that recent Christian history does not have the same historical record. Seems evangelical Christians in modern history have ignored the canna-oil that even Christ was probably anointed with.
 

Qnh Bsm

Active Member
This would be my argument in state court...

Religion is not a matter for state or federal courts.

Amendment I expressly forbids Congress from interfering with the free exercise of one's religious beliefs.

Religion is not a matter for state legislatures or courts because that power it is expressly delegated to Congress by Amendment I. Therefore, it is not protected as a state or people's right as outlined by Amendment X.

Amendment XIV, Section 1 is the kicker. "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

It's pretty straight forward. Basically, both state and federal governments should be prohibited from interfering in one's religious beliefs in any way as outlined in the Constitution and its Amendments.

Unfortunately, men rule the courts and the legislatures, and let their political careers influence their decisions.

Regards
Qnh Bsm
 

theloadeddragon

Well-Known Member
keep it coming my friends... keep it coming... and please browse through a few of my threads... I think you might find them interesting in the least....
 

theloadeddragon

Well-Known Member
I have found a case that would be perfect for testing some of the theories that I have regarding the 1st amendment and using it in court as a defense for being in posession of marijuana, and cultivating marijuana...
 
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