Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH) Thread
- Thread starter jr22hockey
- Start date
cdrippper2
Active Member
hate to talk crap about the CMH, as i'm pretty supportive of it, but i'm thinking that these PULSE START MH bulbs might be the better choice. Look at the specs
View attachment 945541
They have better initial lumens (44,000) are cheaper (30$ vs 50ish) have a higher mean lumen, last 20,000 hours, 110 lumens per watt, and so on.
They are GE bulbs, part # MVR400/VBU/XHO/PA. I will say that the GE's do throw off more heat, but also put out like 10,000 more lumens initially....
The spectrum seems "comparable" also, What do you guys think??? and yes i did notice there is a lot of orange in that spectrum...
View attachment 945541
They have better initial lumens (44,000) are cheaper (30$ vs 50ish) have a higher mean lumen, last 20,000 hours, 110 lumens per watt, and so on.
They are GE bulbs, part # MVR400/VBU/XHO/PA. I will say that the GE's do throw off more heat, but also put out like 10,000 more lumens initially....
The spectrum seems "comparable" also, What do you guys think??? and yes i did notice there is a lot of orange in that spectrum...
8deez8
Active Member
I am what you would call a lighting enthusiast by both hobby and experience, let me just say that I went from using 2:1 hps:mh in my flowering chamber to all CMH (philips 4K) for the first half of flowering to 1:1hps:cmh last half of flowering. I have also started a seperate sativa chamber reviving strains i thought were crap that are now my fav jars. The CMH is on par with HPS in terms of yields when used properly and in conjunction with hps for the latter half of flowering. first half of flowering it blows all out of the water really sets up for heavy dense sticky harvests, but your plants will need more potash than with other bulbs for the onset of flower. I have seen outdoor quality results time and time again with cmh results that just werent possible even with iwasaki blues. Ceramic metal halide is new technology that should not be ignored despite its lack of marketing (in fact that is one of the best aspects of it.) and 85% lumen maintanence low color shift and high cri are thinngs you wont find with shitty standard tube halides, sorry folks. Dont buy a bulbs marketing buy its design and you wont be dissatisfied. -deez
8deez8
Active Member
post script-- lumens are a non issue...Im not exactly sure why plants respond so well to these bulbs but my guess is of course the high color rendering but also the fact that there is no output 'spike' accounting for large amts of output, i.e. all colors are able to reach 30%, most 35-40%, relative power.Also take the guesswork out of matching ballasts and use ANSI code. If your CWA/magnetic ballast says S51 (which is 400w HPS) then your fine to use 400w philips 4k, S50 is 250w hps/cmh. With smaller wattages still use ANSI, I believe you are looking for pulse start halide ballasts to be specific. The main reason for magnetic only ballasts is the frequency at which these bulbs operate; 60 Hz i believe whereas digi's operate in 20kHz range. (boom)for those in it for quality or even bulb value (get what you pay for) look no further, if used properly in conjunction w hps they yield just as much and allow tight spaces to be managed much much easier as the plants stretch much less (not at all) and can be operated very close to surface with no burn. managing space = high yields of higher quality. For those interested in dedicated sativa chambers this is where it's at, just run 13hr veg and 11hr flower, all CMH, and you will have tropical quality sativas, this gave me the best results yet unttil i added UVB, which despite popular opinion this bulb does not provide. These are an indoor growers dream in my book just hope philips doesn't catch on and call it a grow bulb and charge $80+, (less than 50 shipped on ebay, i got 6 for 42ea) cause right now we're about the only ones buying these bulbs, there is just little demand for high output perfectly white light.
gumball
Well-Known Member
yes, riddleme is correct. i actually contacted Philips directly, and asked about the UV output. the lamps with the "FadeBlock" technology, also called protected bulbs, do filter UVB. I am speaking of the "MasterColor® Ceramic Metal Halide ED-17 Lamps" specifically. So take the 2 below part numbers.
MHC150/U/M/4K/ALTO
MHC150/U/MP/4K/ALTO
they are both 150 watt CMH, with no coating, so they need to be enclosed per the manufacturers recommendation. But the bottom bulb has the P before the color rating, that means it is protected and filters UVB. I cannot answer to other Philips MasterColor bulbs, cause when I asked Philips I was talking about these specifically. But in perusing the entire MasterColor family at the below link, it appears the FadeBlock technology is used in this entire family. glad to see you love your CMH though.
http://www.prismaecat.lighting.philips.com/ecat/Light/AdvancedSearch.aspx?fh_location=//prof/us_US/categories<{fnppla}/countries>{us_US}&left_nav=us_en&
Danielsgb
Well-Known Member
Sweet, can't wait to see what you do with it.
Daniels
noT My nAmE
Member
I WANT A CMH!!! Any one know of of a cheap 400w ballast in the U.S.???
Danielsgb
Well-Known Member
http://www.htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=49047 Here's one I found that would work. I've used htgsupply before. I'll see if I can beat their $140
Daniels
Or
http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/400w-hps-ss10-remote-ballast-p-1384.html $75
or
http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/crop-master-400w-hps-remote-grow-light-ballast-p-3153.html $110
Dwezelitsame
Well-Known Member
im runnin a 250w HPS-Eye Hortillux, a 250w CMH-Philips, and a 20 UVB (for 1 hour a day), i run all together at flower in a 39 inch sq growtent i use soil and mixture of organics
my plants and I love both the bulbs most of my veg done in a small closet next to tent shelf on top has a heating pad and flouresent tube bottom of closet has a cfl setup I also run autos in closet
keep em green 1Luv
my plants and I love both the bulbs most of my veg done in a small closet next to tent shelf on top has a heating pad and flouresent tube bottom of closet has a cfl setup I also run autos in closet
keep em green 1Luv
riddleme
Well-Known Member
Mine was $118 got it at growlightexpress
Dwezelitsame
Well-Known Member
i bought a 250w ballest kit it was very cheapi dont remember how much came from HTG at first i was afraid of it cause i had never put one together it was very easy to do its been runnin fine for 1 1/2 years now
KawiZZR
Active Member
Been researching CMH a bit but still confused on some things. Philips makes the 250 and 400 retrofit bulbs for HPS magnetic ballasts, I get that. But who makes the 150w bulbs and what kind of ballast do they run off? Also HTG now has a CMH system separate from their HPS and it seems different from others. The site claims 41000 lumens and says it's a GE bulb. Is this simply a new bulb they came out with or is it a special ballast that only runs certain CMH bulbs giving it a better output? Considering a 400w soon and not sure where the new CMH fits into the mix. Also if anyone knows anything about PSMH I can't seem to find any well documented grows using them or anything about using them for growing. Thanks.
Danielsgb
Well-Known Member
Philips makes the 150W and below too. I run the PSMH and use it for my 150W and 70W. The ANSI code is your friend for ballast compatibility. I'll have to look at HTG's site again for those. I use http://www.lightingsupply.com/CDM150-U-PS-4K-ALTO.aspx
for the cheaper price. I haven't seen the GE CMH. I have a PC with the 70W in Well Here Goes Again
somewhere in there. This one has the 150W Two Queens Stuffed in a Fridge Completed
Daniels
KawiZZR
Active Member
Thanks for the links, really like your grows man. Still reading through, but do you use the PSMH for veg/flower/both? And how does it compare to other lights? Do you think a 150 CMH would be enough for a 24x28x48 (lwh) box, probably have 4 small plants in there and LST them. Debating getting a 250 instead for that space, but I've already got a 150 so would rather use that if practical. Also, do you think a 400 would be adequate for a 34x44x76 closet thats mostly veggies and herbs with only a couple of seedlings there in veg towards the end of flower in the grow box? I'm renting so can't put any holes in the walls to vent the closet so probably won't be closing it up.Philips makes the 150W and below too. I run the PSMH and use it for my 150W and 70W. The ANSI code is your friend for ballast compatibility. I'll have to look at HTG's site again for those. I use http://www.lightingsupply.com/CDM150-U-PS-4K-ALTO.aspx
for the cheaper price. I haven't seen the GE CMH. I have a PC with the 70W in Well Here Goes Again
somewhere in there. This one has the 150W Two Queens Stuffed in a Fridge Completed
Daniels