chilLED: water cooled, ducted, or active led fixture

Hey Guys, a couple of commenters on YT dropped me a link to a guy prototyping an LED fixture platform that will allow the user to choose
-standard active cooling
-inline ducted cooling
-<or> water cooling via a copper manifold that integrates with the heatsinks

I figured I would start a thread about it and maybe we could have a positive discussion about the possibilities of this kind of platform. When a new company comes around here, they typically get bashed about price, efficacy, etc etc. I asked this guy a few questions on YouTube about the light engine, here are some of the para phrased responses:

What is the light engine comprised of?

For the LED modules I use Luxeon Rebel: http://www.lumileds.com/products/color-leds/luxeon-rebel-color , Luxeon Z: http://www.lumileds.com/products/high-power-leds/luxeon-z , Luxeon Z ES: http://www.lumileds.com/products/high-power-leds/luxeon-z-es and Luxeon Z UV: http://www.lumileds.com/products/uv-leds/luxeon-z-uv (in some setups) They are arranged in modules of 9, 12 or 16 per light. The light is focused into a tighter beam with an acrylic secondary lens array (60 degree). You can see some additional specs & measurements in the description here: https://chilledgrowlights.com/shop/diy-led-grow-light-modules/diy-led-grow-light-engine-assembly

Thank you so much for the response, very few led companies are willing to be this transparent about their diode selection. As you get closer to production, could we see a revision to the light engine in favor of a newer diode with a more impressive luminous efficacy like nichia, osram reds or samsung whites

You're welcome! That's something I hated myself, so from the get go am doing exactly the opposite No secrets. From my testing this is the most efficient setup I have found and I have tested my light against many others. For the time being the chips will be as designed. BTW, I use a spectroradiometer with integrating sphere to do the measurements of the LED chips. Perhaps down the road when something proves to be better then I'll switch to using those. One thing to keep in mind, it's not just the output efficiency of the LED chip, its also how well it would integrate with a secondary optic and how much of total rays will make it through to the final target - when this is considered as a whole, so far nothing beats my choices.

Competitors in the medium to higher end LED grow light market are hitting 2.2 µmol/J today, and possibly 2.4 µmol/J by the end of 2016. Do you see your product being in this ballpark once released.

Yup, definitely in line with those numbers.

No hard pricing data or availability yet, but I think it is a very interesting and well designed product. The data sheets on his diode choices aren't incredibly impressive, but if the guy has access to an integrated sphere and spectroradiometer, he clearly has the data to back up his choices...

His YouTube (very nice basement room): https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJHRHD4xQYZb84ltXXb-tWw

video of the internals of the LED product:

IF you check out his website, he is already offering the light engine as a "DIY part" which demonstrates a certain open source mentality. I am getting some good vibes from the way this guy makes videos and answers comments with hard answers.
-although his light engine does not interest me that much, his cases do!
-perhaps if we embarrassed him and his efforts, he would offer the case and heatsink platform to us DIY guys?!

nicely engineered, first water cooling application I have seen that looks practical. giving me lots of ideas on how to improve my lights.

ive got a couple water cooled designs, one is in prototype, one still in my head

The build quality is fantastic. So does this LED technology potentially fare better with all elements considered? Very interesting indeed.

@PurpleBuz @BOBBY_G do you guys like his design with the copper pipe, or do you think a water block would be better.

I am imagining and brainstorming some designs for my new garden on my property. I feel like chillers that use 350-700 watts is counter productive to the LED philosophy. But what about earth loops? What do you guys think about using copper only to interface with the heatsinks, then coupling into PEX line which is dirt ass cheap, then running a pig tail loop through the earth to remove the heat.
-this is the concept behind geothermal HVAC units.

@DISTRESS0R well, I like to keep an open mind about new products. Lumileds are not really impressive on paper, especially when some cxb3590 users are getting 2.6-2.7 µmol/J .

If all of these smaller diodes are inferior to the COBs we love and use, why are most of the manufacturers moving to these small diode package light engines.
Examples:
-Spectrum King : closet case & mother's little helper, possibly their new SK600+
-Fluence Bioengineering's : Razr, Vypr, SpydrX
-NextLight
Is this just a cost of manufacturing choice?

ok just watched it, a lot of similar ideas

big challenge in any of these applications is getting efficient heat transfer from the square HS surface to the (typically) round (as it is quicker/cheaper to fab) water connectors
i fabbed some square tubing water blocks out of 4 ft lengths of 2 x 1 x 1/8 rectangular tubing and was going to make some 1/4" plate cob mounts that could square u-bolt to the channel (and be adjustable spacing by sliding along)

then came up with a differnt idea of aluminum tee with two 3/8" copper pipes thermal epoxied to the top side of the tee with a nice flat cob mount area on the bottom

im onto V3 in my head which i think is maybe a little better than what this guy has going (conceptually - but huge props to that guy his work speaks for itself

this is the part that is the missing link


where do you get those? is that off the shelf or custom extruded/milled

Growmau5 said:

If all of these smaller diodes are inferior to the COBs we love and use, why are most of the manufacturers moving to these small diode package light engines.
Examples:
-Spectrum King : closet case & mother's little helper, possibly their new SK600+
-Fluence Bioengineering's : Razr, Vypr, SpydrX
-NextLight
Is this just a cost of manufacturing choice?

View attachment 3693666

Click to expand...

i would imagine. its ALWAYS a cost/performance dance and if your commercial products are efficient 'enough' to meet the fed, state and local standards for incentives say 120-160 lm/W, im sure the single diode chips are cheaper than the cobs to mfr tho i dunno. like those $60 citizen 3618s that push 475W @ 123 lm/W. they have to make those for $30 ea, so like 6 cents per watt on the cobs. who knows what their cost is on 1-10W single diodes

ill bet its more of the cost of thermal management.

once you get into mfr, diodes are relatively cheap. aluminum and fans and stuff really arent. a shitload of little diodes has an order of magnitude of cooling advantage on 1/10 of the light engines in the same space

the two physical limitations of DIY water cooling

-most heatsinks and water blocks are square, most coolant-carrying tubing is round. permanent connection of liquid-containing fittings (ie solder brase or solvent weld) is superior to mecahnical fittings (threads/barbs/sharkbites) that can leak into a sensitive electronic environment

-you cant just drill a cob onto a cheapo processor water block as again it would be difficult to seal those thread holes. need to fabricate a u bracket or clamp of sorts to get firm seating), or use thermal epoxy which some sa is not as efficient and also permanetly mounts your cob to the block

The amount of money already invested in these clearly ready for production lights boggles the mind; at least 4 custom molds just for the plastic air extractors, for example.

It's versatile but it just doesn't look very affordable, even at scale.

BOBBY_G said:

ok just watched it, a lot of similar ideas

big challenge in any of these applications is getting efficient heat transfer from the square HS surface to the (typically) round (as it is quicker/cheaper to fab) water connectors
i fabbed some square tubing water blocks out of 4 ft lengths of 2 x 1 x 1/8 rectangular tubing and was going to make some 1/4" plate cob mounts that could square u-bolt to the channel (and be adjustable spacing by sliding along)

then came up with a differnt idea of aluminum tee with two 3/8" copper pipes thermal epoxied to the top side of the tee with a nice flat cob mount area on the bottom

im onto V3 in my head which i think is maybe a little better than what this guy has going (conceptually - but huge props to that guy his work speaks for itself

this is the part that is the missing link

where do you get those? is that off the shelf or custom extruded/milled

Click to expand...

CUSTOM, again! He said the heat sinks are custom extrusions- which are then machined. The PCB was a custom piece. The lens cover is also a custom piece.

This is why I'm convinced it's already ready for production; this video is just early marketing.

BOBBY_G said:

the two physical limitations of DIY water cooling

-most heatsinks and water blocks are square, most coolant-carrying tubing is round. permanent connection of liquid-containing fittings (ie solder brase or solvent weld) is superior to mecahnical fittings (threads/barbs/sharkbites) that can leak into a sensitive electronic environment

-you cant just drill a cob onto a cheapo processor water block as again it would be difficult to seal those thread holes. need to fabricate a u bracket or clamp of sorts to get firm seating), or use thermal epoxy which some sa is not as efficient and also permanetly mounts your cob to the block

Click to expand...

...and you still need to screw down lens holders.

The amount of thought that went into that light is remarkable. The cooling options and the availability to change vent ducting configuration along with being able to choose your method of cooling is brilliant. I agree with tyystikk and can only assume that it isnt likely affordable but once afforded, it seems to be a one time purchase other than standard replaceable items which the case layout and platform is completely designed with this in mind. Impressive build none the less.

here i just did some sketches of the obsolete V1 and V2 designs












and here was the aluminum tee, with again the challenge of making surface contact of round pipes with square structure.

partially solved by milling out round channels for tubing to sit in.

i see now that the chillled's heatsinks are extruded round for the pipes to sit in, which is a variant of the #2 design above

ill post V3 later, which i think offers substantial improvement.

I read in the YouTube comments in one of the other videos the lights will be priced under 2k each

Jesus this looks expensive. Custom everything. Question is why Luxeon diodes over say XML-2 or even the newer XP-G3 to be out soon or even COBS as these will obviously be a fuckton in price. Looks like a marketing video rather than a show and tell.

There was a initial hater turned intrigued builder named @Doer who was working on a simple DIY square tubing based liquid cooled system. He disappeared and I never saw the end of it, but it was super low profile(≤1.5"), and relatively simple.

That guy in the videos new light is sick. No doubt about that.

heres a better mono waterblock/fin heat sink design basically a CPU cooler with a thick enough base to drill holes straight thru

sorry i got lazy halfway thru drawing the fins

advantages:
-360 deg. contact to cooling pipe surfaces
-instead of fan blowing wastefully directly on the cold piping, the heat from the cob goes thru the piping in the middle of the block first and then residual heat goes up to the fin sink
- fan is there for emergency/supplemental cooling and can be relay controlled off cob temp or a thermocouple on the block itself

universal 4 hole or whatever design can be used in any number of ways by end user
-any number of 1,2,3,4 tubes
-coolant water or possibly refrigerant tubes.




so like realistically if we perfected this diy design and group ordered those blocks we could get 1000 pc or more of those made

Damn heres @Doer 's page. all kind of shit going on there. i never knew about these "blogs" i feel like i stumbled into an alternate RIU dimension...

https://www.rollitup.org/Journal/doer.353494/