Choosing Your Nitrogen Source

SirLancelot

SirLancelot

Active Member
Just sharing some helpful info

The sources
The encyclopedia of organic gardening (rodale); Knott's handbook for vegetable growers (john T. Wiley); Western Fertilizer Handbook (interstate press)

Synthetic Nutes of nitrogen carry a high percentage of the fertilizer and offer a quick boost to plants. But they don't do anything for building soil, which is why many of us are organic growers. Organic sources may contain less nitrogen but last longer and contribute to a helathy soil matrix.


FERTILIZER
% NITROGEN
TENDENCY TO LEACH
PERIOD OF AVIALABILITY IN SOIL


NON-ORGANIC


Urea
46
High
2 weeks
Sulfur-coated urea
38
Moderate
6 months
Urea formaldehyde
38
Moderate
3 months
Ammonium nitrate
33
High
1 month
Isobutylene urea (IBDU)
31
Low
9 months
Methylene Urea
28-41
Moderate
6 months
Ammonium Sulfate
21
High
1 month
Nitrate of Soda
16
High
3 months
Calcium Nitrate
15
High
3 months
Potassium Nitrate
13
High
3 months


ORGANIC


Bat guano
11
Low
3 months
Blood meal
10
Low
1 year
Fish meal
10
Moderate
3 months
Cottonseed meal
6-8
Low
1 year
Alfalfa meal
5
Low
1 year
Cow manure (dry)
2-3
Low
1 year
Poultry manure
2
Low
6 months
Seaweed (dry)
2
Low
9 months
Horse manure (fresh)
1
Moderate
1 year
 
Noob187

Noob187

Active Member
I recommend avoiding the cottonseed meal, most cotton in the USA is GMO, and sprayed with tons of fungicides/pesticides & chemicals.. Plus cottonseed meal will make the soil a acidic... I prefer using Neem cake for nitrogen (or Neem Meal depending on where you are getting it from neem cake is the same thing, but cheaper & probably higher quality too) its a slow release, and prevents bacteria from releasing nitrous oxide.. Also it has the added benefit of being a preventative measure against pests and pathogens. Karanja has similar benefits as the Neem but its even cheaper than the neem cake, Karanja cake costs less than a dollar a pound and only a half cup of karanja or neem cake is needed per cubic foot.
 
Vindicated

Vindicated

Well-Known Member
A little trick I picked up from some gardener friends. Legumes like alfalfa, beans, and peas are able to create nitrogen (up to 250-500 lbs per acre) from the air with the help of beneficial bacteria. To make this nitrogen available to your next crop, all you have to do is chop up the inedible parts, toss 1-2 inches of new potting soil on top of them (e.g. lasagna gardening or green manuring), and let the plants decompose naturally. For extra nitrogen, apply a thick layer of compost mulch made from grass clippings.

This is basics of crop rotation and works really good in raised beds. Grow legumes in bed #1 and cannabis is bed #2, then the following year you simply switch it.
 
P

pinetreebandit

Member
Vindicated said:
A little trick I picked up from some gardener friends. Legumes like alfalfa, beans, and peas are able to create nitrogen (up to 250-500 lbs per acre) from the air with the help of beneficial bacteria. To make this nitrogen available to your next crop, all you have to do is chop up the inedible parts, toss 1-2 inches of new potting soil on top of them (e.g. lasagna gardening or green manuring), and let the plants decompose naturally. For extra nitrogen, apply a thick layer of compost mulch made from grass clippings.

This is basics of crop rotation and works really good in raised beds. Grow legumes in bed #1 and cannabis is bed #2, then the following year you simply switch it.
Click to expand...
good info.
 
+ WitchDoctor +

+ WitchDoctor +

Well-Known Member
Noob187 said:
I recommend avoiding the cottonseed meal, most cotton in the USA is GMO, and sprayed with tons of fungicides/pesticides & chemicals.. Plus cottonseed meal will make the soil a acidic... I prefer using Neem cake for nitrogen (or Neem Meal depending on where you are getting it from neem cake is the same thing, but cheaper & probably higher quality too) its a slow release, and prevents bacteria from releasing nitrous oxide.. Also it has the added benefit of being a preventative measure against pests and pathogens. Karanja has similar benefits as the Neem but its even cheaper than the neem cake, Karanja cake costs less than a dollar a pound and only a half cup of karanja or neem cake is needed per cubic foot.
Click to expand...
YES!! Karanja and Neem Cake are awesome. I use both as well. And I get the rest of my N from my worm compost. :lol: And a small bottle of Nature's Nectar N for emergencies..

And yea, cottonseed meal is garbage, but to be honest the manures are from animals eating a very VERY poor diet of GMO foods anyways...and the blood and bone meal...also slaughterhouse products that are most likely contaminated one way or another...and the non-organic forms on the list all have a high tendency to leach.
 
Noob187

Noob187

Active Member
Witchdoctor, organic forms can leach to but not so much if your adding biochar to your soil mix you will also get better plant growth and more nutrient uptake.. The char provides a home for the micro-herd that is responsible for turning your amendments into plant food. I don't use the blood meal or bone meal either, for P I'm putting Fish Bone meal into my mix, wild harvested from fish catches in the pacific. My mix right now goes like this (per ten gallons of soil) 6 gallons of Promix, 3 gallons of worm castings & compost from a local organic dairy farm, 2/3 cup each of Neem/Karanja cake, Alfalfa meal, kelp meal, & fish bone meal, 1 cup pelleted dolomite lime, 1 cup oyster shells, 1.5 cups of granular azomite, 2/3 gallon of organic parboiled rice hulls and 2 tablespoons of crushed langbienite (Sul-Po-Mag).. I let this soil cook for at least 1 month before use, this mix is not for young plants or seedlings, but the final transplant mix. I mix my soil dry, then I wet it down with an activated compost tea (1/2 cup EWC, 1 gallon of water no chlorine, 1 teaspoon of molasses and brewed for approx 24 hours before application). I'm going to try to make my own bio char, because I plan on re using my soil mixes and the addition of this amendment can make the soil stay fertile for longer..
 
+ WitchDoctor +

+ WitchDoctor +

Well-Known Member
Noob187 said:
Witchdoctor, organic forms can leach to but not so much if your adding biochar to your soil mix you will also get better plant growth and more nutrient uptake.. The char provides a home for the micro-herd that is responsible for turning your amendments into plant food. I don't use the blood meal or bone meal either, for P I'm putting Fish Bone meal into my mix, wild harvested from fish catches in the pacific. My mix right now goes like this (per ten gallons of soil) 6 gallons of Promix, 3 gallons of worm castings & compost from a local organic dairy farm, 2/3 cup each of Neem/Karanja cake, Alfalfa meal, kelp meal, & fish bone meal, 1 cup pelleted dolomite lime, 1 cup oyster shells, 1.5 cups of granular azomite, 2/3 gallon of organic parboiled rice hulls and 2 tablespoons of crushed langbienite (Sul-Po-Mag).. I let this soil cook for at least 1 month before use, this mix is not for young plants or seedlings, but the final transplant mix. I mix my soil dry, then I wet it down with an activated compost tea (1/2 cup EWC, 1 gallon of water no chlorine, 1 teaspoon of molasses and brewed for approx 24 hours before application). I'm going to try to make my own bio char, because I plan on re using my soil mixes and the addition of this amendment can make the soil stay fertile for longer..
Click to expand...
Yea, I actually just learned about biochar. We've got some bushes we cut down a week or two ago drying up outside so that we can char it this weekend and add it to the garden beds outside before I replant next week. We were originally just going to burn it to ashes and use the ashes, but this seems much better.

You soil mix is similar to mine, except mine is all plant-based. Even the ocean stuff makes me uncomfortable these days....

Mine is:
Dolomite lime –1 cup
Neem cake – 1 cup
Karanja cake – 1 cup
Mykos – 1 cup
Coffee/tea grounds – 1 cup
Epsom salt – ¼ up
Greensand – 1 cup
Crushed Cooked Banana Peel – 2-4 cups

¼ bale of compressed coco chips - OMRI
2 bales compressed coco fibers - OMRI
2 gallons peat - OMRI
3 gallons EWC - OMRI
2 gallons worm compost

I used to use Promix, but I like using coco much better now. Have you been using the granular azomite for awhile? Is it doing the job for you? I live in an area that's really bad for mites. Sometimes I get the red and the 2 spotted mites at the same time lol. I use Azamax as a drench the first week of veg and the first week of 12/12. And I use a little in foliars every ten days or so in veg.

You should make your own worm bin though, it's easy. The worms do all the work, it's at least 3 times more beneficial than regular compost, and it retains more of the NPK values of the foods that were put in the compost. :weed:
 
Noob187

Noob187

Active Member
I'm going to make a worm bin this summer, on a nice day, because I have to drive across town to get a deal on the wigglers, this will be my first run with azomite & customized soil mix.. I'm sick of bagged soil not being up-to-par with my standards... I was going to make a coco mix but most of the coco-dudes recommend having a PH meter which IMHO sounds like too much work.. Yea, we have mites up here too, I found 1 crawling thru the trichomes on my tomatoes earlier, asshole bugs... I just got some yarrow plants & a Lavender plant as well.. Concoctions made from these plants can kill mites, and attract beneficial bugs to the yard.. Your mix sounds solid, the only animal stuff in my mix is the fish-bone-meal, I used to use bat guano but I found out how harvesting of their droppings are damaging their native habitats because of careless harvesting practices.. I think after I run out of promix I'll experiment with other options, I just like that its easy to mix because the perlite & peat are already mixed up & it makes mixing the whole thing a breeze.. I Had to mix 2 cubic yards of soil earlier starting from just peat, rice hulls & compost for the garden and I am exhausted, I think I'm going to get a compost tumbler eventually when I need to make that much soil again, luckily my mix can be re-used many times so that won't be until further down the road unless this soil fails.. Which I doubt it will.
 
+ WitchDoctor +

+ WitchDoctor +

Well-Known Member
Yea Promix isn't bad at all. I always liked it, I just prefer to use OMRI stuff. I just got a wholesale coco account, but up until now I've been using the HydroFarm Coco Planting Mix. It's $9 or so a bale, which comes out to about 12 gallons of soil, or 2.5 cubic ft. There are a few Guano companies that are supposedly environmentally responsible, but I don't really see how it could be lol.

You can make your own tumbler and composter pretty easy. I saw this on CL the other day.


Lavender is awesome stuff, my wife just ordered the medical variety. I didn't know it could be used to deter mites though, awesome!
 
Wolverine97

Wolverine97

Well-Known Member
+ WitchDoctor + said:
Yea, I actually just learned about biochar. We've got some bushes we cut down a week or two ago drying up outside so that we can char it this weekend and add it to the garden beds outside before I replant next week. We were originally just going to burn it to ashes and use the ashes, but this seems much better.

You soil mix is similar to mine, except mine is all plant-based. Even the ocean stuff makes me uncomfortable these days....

Mine is:
Dolomite lime –1 cup
Neem cake – 1 cup
Karanja cake – 1 cup
Mykos – 1 cup
Coffee/tea grounds – 1 cup
Epsom salt – ¼ up
Greensand – 1 cup
Crushed Cooked Banana Peel – 2-4 cups

¼ bale of compressed coco chips - OMRI
2 bales compressed coco fibers - OMRI
2 gallons peat - OMRI
3 gallons EWC - OMRI
2 gallons worm compost

I used to use Promix, but I like using coco much better now. Have you been using the granular azomite for awhile? Is it doing the job for you? I live in an area that's really bad for mites. Sometimes I get the red and the 2 spotted mites at the same time lol. I use Azamax as a drench the first week of veg and the first week of 12/12. And I use a little in foliars every ten days or so in veg.

You should make your own worm bin though, it's easy. The worms do all the work, it's at least 3 times more beneficial than regular compost, and it retains more of the NPK values of the foods that were put in the compost. :weed:
Click to expand...
Azomite is not the same as Azamax. Azomite is a crushed rock product, providing micronutrients in the soil, there is no insecticidal property.
 
SirLancelot

SirLancelot

Active Member
+ WitchDoctor + said:
Yea Promix isn't bad at all. I always liked it, I just prefer to use OMRI stuff. I just got a wholesale coco account, but up until now I've been using the HydroFarm Coco Planting Mix. It's $9 or so a bale, which comes out to about 12 gallons of soil, or 2.5 cubic ft. There are a few Guano companies that are supposedly environmentally responsible, but I don't really see how it could be lol.

You can make your own tumbler and composter pretty easy. I saw this on CL the other day.


Lavender is awesome stuff, my wife just ordered the medical variety. I didn't know it could be used to deter mites though, awesome!
Click to expand...
I went to a composting class last year and they gave me one of those compost barrels you rotate... It's complete garbage and prefer my compost piles in the back, but I soon found out it was perfect for mixing all my own soils indoors!
 
+ WitchDoctor +

+ WitchDoctor +

Well-Known Member
Wolverine97 said:
Azomite is not the same as Azamax. Azomite is a crushed rock product, providing micronutrients in the soil, there is no insecticidal property.
Click to expand...
Oh, thanks man. I shoulda just looked it up. I guess I just saw the Azo and figured it was a similar product.


SirLancelot said:
I went to a composting class last year and they gave me one of those compost barrels you rotate... It's complete garbage and prefer my compost piles in the back, but I soon found out it was perfect for mixing all my own soils indoors!
Click to expand...
I like it to rotate because I'm disabled and it'll make it easier to empty. I'm not really into cutting the bottom of it....but you're right they're awesome for mixing up soil in the house.
 
Wolverine97

Wolverine97

Well-Known Member
+ WitchDoctor + said:
Oh, thanks man. I shoulda just looked it up. I guess I just saw the Azo and figured it was a similar product.
Click to expand...

No problem, I thought the same thing the first time I ever heard of it. I started using it a few years ago (started with prilled, too slow for indoor) and haven't looked back. It's good stuff, and one bag will last forever.
 
+ WitchDoctor +

+ WitchDoctor +

Well-Known Member
Wolverine97 said:
No problem, I thought the same thing the first time I ever heard of it. I started using it a few years ago (started with prilled, too slow for indoor) and haven't looked back. It's good stuff, and one bag will last forever.
Click to expand...
Cool, it's super cheap as well so I'm gonna get a 5 lb bag of it and see what's up.
 
Noob187

Noob187

Active Member
+ WitchDoctor + said:
Yea Promix isn't bad at all. I always liked it, I just prefer to use OMRI stuff. I just got a wholesale coco account, but up until now I've been using the HydroFarm Coco Planting Mix. It's $9 or so a bale, which comes out to about 12 gallons of soil, or 2.5 cubic ft. There are a few Guano companies that are supposedly environmentally responsible, but I don't really see how it could be lol.

You can make your own tumbler and composter pretty easy. I saw this on CL the other day.


Lavender is awesome stuff, my wife just ordered the medical variety. I didn't know it could be used to deter mites though, awesome!
Click to expand...
Nice bro, so is PH an issue using coco as a substitute for peat? The specific Promix product I bought is listed on the OMRI website, its not the BX crap with added fungicide or whatever its "all purpose".. In fact I found mushrooms growing in it when I stirred this morning because its been super hot this weekend, I threw it out of the mix. So the soil is definitely alive, & to the thing about companies caring about the environment :roll: they all say that tho don't they? Even Monsatan has that whole "solving world hunger" & "caring about the environment" PR crap like all the companies do, even BP & other big oil corps claim to care while they dump COREXIT in the gulf. & Yeah Azomite is basically just rock minerals, not the azamax (way overpriced IMO), I use the neem cake which has enough of the azadirachtin & limonoids in it already.. Plus I have neem oil, which is very hard to use in the winter around here, after I run out, I'm going with the Karanja oil because its less thick than the neem oil.
 
+ WitchDoctor +

+ WitchDoctor +

Well-Known Member
I've got Neem and Karanja, the smell of the neem drives me crazy lol, so I hardly ever use it. I haven't even tried the Karanja yet, maybe this week. The Azamax is definitely over-priced at the hydro stores, but I don't pay that much for it where I get it http://growgreenmi.com/azamax-gallon And I have to go sooooo hard on these mites lol, or they just fuck up my program, every time. :wall: I usually still get a few mites by week six of flower because the coating on the leaves and the systemic drench around flip are mostly out of it's system it seems like. I don't even like to run strains that take over 8 weeks anymore...

Can you post the Promix you're using? I've never heard of an OMRI one and I'd be on it in a heartbeat!
 
Noob187

Noob187

Active Member
http://www.omri.org/manufacturers/65607/premier-horticulture-ltd its the "all purpose" 1. Most of the premier products are listed on OMRI, just not the BX because of the fungicide. A lot of the guys on this other forum I visit use this organic pesticide called "spinosad" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinosad there is a couple different brands, but it's said to wipe mites out but not eggs, so its best to use with neem/karanja oil at least in veg, but the spinosad can be used in flower.. I fortunately haven't battled any mites yet (knocks on wood) I think they mostly been warded off by my preventative measures, although I could just be lucky thus far lol. I see no point in using azamax really, its just the active compound in neem which is much cheaper and already effective. I actually like the smell of neem, especially the cake... But I also like the smell of tobacco & the two are similar in their fragrances sort of, except neem smells better because of the limonoids.. Everybody seems to hate the smell of neem but me, I don't like the way the pure oil smells, but the cake smell good IMO.
 
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