citizen CLU series LM80 data

got this in the last week from citizen

they said this data is applicable to all current CLU series chips, gen 5 and gen 6 included

test chip:clu056-3626 (current series chips didnt exist 15000 hours ago when test was started, one might speculate that the modern more efficient chips with better thermal management would perform at least as well)

test conditions: 4680 mA (533 Watts!) at 55, 85, and 105C case temp

results: 48000 LM90 @ 55C case temp
>90000 hr LM80


site is still acting buggy ill upload report and screenies later

Hey Cobkits,

L80 is pretty low, you are usually better off upgrading way before then, 15~20% difference in yield will pay back in 1 grow.

L90 @55°C == 48 000 hours

which is equivalent to 11 years in 12/12 and over 7 years in 18/6, that'll do it for me

I have these, if that's what you're looking for :

EDIT : Can't upload files ?! Wanted to upload a big and small PDF, here is a img version of the small :
http://imgur.com/GquYu9g



I was told it should apply to series 6 too. But new ones are to come ...

MezRoGi said:

L80 is pretty low, you are usually better off upgrading way before then,

Click to expand...

well, 90000 hrs is 22.5 years at 12hrs/day, so i would hope you'd upgrade before then!

in practical terms, not speculating forward just looking at actual data, full power on these chips @ 55C case temp loses about 1% of lumens in a year. ill take it. even if the low current data isnt any better than that

again they are pushing these as hard as they can, which is 2-4x the currents that we typically use

230 mA per die = 2760 mA for 1212 (105W), 4140 mA for 1818(235W), 5750 mA for 1825 (327W)

by contrast CXB3590 which advertises >61000 hr LM90 (11khr test) is tested at 2.1A/75W

full report. looks different than what mezrogi posted. cant upload here so ill link it

http://cobkits.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/OLE16-0034-01_CLU056_15kh_LM-80-report.pdf

Yes, I've been wanting more information at low drives too ...

But according to my contact at citizen, temperature is the main factor, drive doesn't change much (apart from of course directly influencing temps).

I'd like to know also what is up with the horti cobs, they have lower ppf to start with (making them not so desirable) but they manage to have crazy good lumen maintenance ...

@140°C (!) :

Horti : 70,000h L90 Tj=140C
Standard : 50,000h L70 Tj=140C

So in the really long run, they do have better value, especially for cheaper, lower performing heat dissipation designs.

CobKits said:

full report. looks different than what mezrogi posted. cant upload here so ill link it

http://cobkits.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/OLE16-0034-01_CLU056_15kh_LM-80-report.pdf

Click to expand...

Yep that's the bigger pdf i was talking about ^^
page 5 has the 48000 hrs @55°c I mentioned ..

Funny how a lot of cobs have a greater reading @5K hours than @4K hours, probably due to the dies not losing performance, while the phosphor aging slightly becomes less opaque (?)
.. or probably mostly has to do with the chromaticity shift & lumens irregular "accounting"..

MezRoGi said:

I'd like to know also what is up with the horti cobs, they have lower ppf to start with (making them not so desirable) but they manage to have crazy good lumen maintenance ...

@140°C (!) :

Horti : 70,000h L90 Tj=140C
Standard : 50,000h L70 Tj=140C

Click to expand...

a few thoughts/questions for your inside guy:
-the horti series are spec'd for much lower currents which might account for longer LM90
-the lower spec'd wattage of the horti series would naturally have lower ppf at nominal currents
-even if it has better lumen maintenance, does the ppf/W ever catch up with the regular white phosphor cobs?
-these arent available in the US
-where they are available, they are considerably more expensive than regular white phosphor cobs

Those are the right questions indeed

Well @140°c it looks like it.

for 3618's :
At nominal drive ; the horti has 10% less pff than the best performing series 6 cobs.
so at 140°c, after 50 000 hours, standard cob has lost 30%, horti <10%
=> so horti has a better output before 50K hours is reached, @140°c.

Of course, we don't run them that hot,
=> @55°c we get ~50K hours of better-than-all-new-horti-cob performance before they would just about match in terms of ppf.

Basically people should only consider horti, if they plan on cheaping out on dissipation (from our POV) and going for the really long run (again, not for us).
Still would love to see that spectrum in action one day, maybe when we don't care about performance anymore, like when gen 12 is around or something

So yeah, I'm ordering version 6 for now

... but if someone is interested, I can ask for price, order and ship some to the US (@CobKits ?)

see if you can get some samples, 1212 (aka 36V 28mm x 28mm) are fine

id like to lay my hands on one before i buy a bunch