Clay vegetable garden

HeartlandHank

HeartlandHank

Well-Known Member
So, I just dug a 7x7ish veggie garden at my new place. The soil is a lot of clay. "Grey Clay", when really wet.

Before it got wet I didn't really notice how much clay it was. As the ph was 7.8 or so, I dug deeep and mixed in sphag peat moss. I now know that was a mistake. But it is a little late. Also mixed in a large bag of compost and a smaller bag of mushroom compost.

I still have some dirt to throw back in. The level of the garden is still about 4 inches below ground level.

I would like to make it a little less clay, but I don't want to over do it as we have droughts here. 2011 was intense.

Ive got piles of old leaves that I plan to mix in. Im thinking mixing that and more compost in for the rest of the fill is as far as i want to go with adding drainage or whatever.

Ive also got plans to make a nice rock border with some free rocks I have access to. Then fill the cracks and spaces of the rock border with succulents, cacti and decomposed granite.

Anyone else growing with clay soil in a dry climate?

So that's the project. I'm enjoying the gardening outside with non controversial plants. Living in secrecy gets old after a while.
 
The Outdoorsman

The Outdoorsman

Well-Known Member
Not in a dry climate but we got clay!

Try green sand or regular sand.

I started a new garden plot this year and am going to be tilling in a lot of black dirt, mulch and sand after harvest to counter act the clay. Make sure you rent the tiller because the one I did this spring over heated a few times trying to till into clay. Takes so long maybe I'll just go through with a pitchfork and break up the clay before tilling.... about as much work as digging it out but Idk I'm still thinking...
 
HeartlandHank

HeartlandHank

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I dug my garden with a shovel. It was a ton of work. i thought about renting a tiller. Ive got two huge tree roots running through the garden though. I sort of excavated around them. Not sure if I could do that with a tiller.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
do NOT mix sand and clay, that's what you do to make cement.

tillers makes easy work of clay. i mix used soil from indoors into my clay, but i also do a lot of growing in the clay alone. keep it well watered and it is just fine for most crops. for certain crops, like potatoes and carrots, i pile on a whole heaping shitload of used soil fro indoors as carrots can not break through a crusty surface and potatoes do not grow well in clay unless you keep it incredibly well watered, which invites other problems.
 
Toolage 87

Toolage 87

Well-Known Member
I would dig around 1 to 2 feet deep maybe 3 to 4 if you can and take that clay use some of it and mix it with potting soil. Where I live my lawn died because its nothing buy clay there and I dug 3 to 4 feed of the clay up and mixed some of it with potting soil and put it down and watered it alot to help the first 2 days to help make the soil settle faster before I reseeded my lawn and now I have very healthy grass.
 
HeartlandHank

HeartlandHank

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
do NOT mix sand and clay, that's what you do to make cement.

tillers makes easy work of clay. i mix used soil from indoors into my clay, but i also do a lot of growing in the clay alone. keep it well watered and it is just fine for most crops. for certain crops, like potatoes and carrots, i pile on a whole heaping shitload of used soil fro indoors as carrots can not break through a crusty surface and potatoes do not grow well in clay unless you keep it incredibly well watered, which invites other problems.
Click to expand...
Excellent info, thanks. Am hoping to do carrots in the fall garden so that helps a lot.

I'm using coco indoors, no soil. Otherwise would be going that route for sure. Would love to find a good use for all this coco that goes to the landfill.

Maybe I will till just an area of the 7x7 for the tuber and root crops. Then purchase some soil to mix in extra heavy in that area.
For the rest of the garden, mix in a little soil and a little more compost.

The mushroom compost had a very sandy texture. I will avoid adding more of that.

I'm going to see about renting a tiller. Just gotta watch out for these 2.5 in wide roots. Would hate to hit my tree like that just before the 100+ degrees/dry run we see in August every year, or at all.
 
HeartlandHank

HeartlandHank

Well-Known Member
Toolage 87 said:
I would dig around 1 to 2 feet deep maybe 3 to 4 if you can and take that clay use some of it and mix it with potting soil. Where I live my lawn died because its nothing buy clay there and I dug 3 to 4 feed of the clay up and mixed some of it with potting soil and put it down and watered it alot to help the first 2 days to help make the soil settle faster before I reseeded my lawn and now I have very healthy grass.
Click to expand...
I would say I dug about 2-2.5 feet deep. a 7x7 with a shovel, it was some fucking work.

I mixed in some compost, hopefully that helped similar to how soil would.

I'll till the garden again and see how far down I can mix in some soil.
 
HeartlandHank

HeartlandHank

Well-Known Member
Since I have some extra of this clay soil... was thinking about using this for some potted perrenials after they pass seedling stage. Looking to do quite a few of them for future transplant in landscaping projects.

You think about 50/50 clay soil/potting soil would be good?
 
Toolage 87

Toolage 87

Well-Known Member
Yea running that high I would start to worry about it causing the soil to compact to much and causing the roots not to be able to grow as much
 
DaBuzzard

DaBuzzard

Member
johnandbobs.com has a clay soil conditioning kit for $40.00 that is suppose to work well. I have used some of their products and they seem to work.
 
RyanTheRhino

RyanTheRhino

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
do NOT mix sand and clay, that's what you do to make cement.
Click to expand...

I hate to say it bro but that is a myth. I have all clay, when you add sand to clay and till it you get a bunch of little pebble like clay blobs coated in sand.

Yes this myth dose holds some water but it is not impossible to add sand to make your soil amendment better.
It has some truth because of the different sized particles of sand and clay. Clay is silt like and has very small particles while sand is course and their particles are much larger. I am about to find a diagram to help me explain but if you know how metallic molecules work and know lattice structure works you know what i mean. For those who don't what happens basically is that the smaller clay particles fill the holes in the empty space of the large sand particles so it become more dense and less porous.



If you have 100% clay soil just make sure you have at least

50% sand
50% clay

that combo will work just fine at this ratio you will keep the fertile rich clay with the good drainage of sand.

When I till new clay for a new garden I add river pebbles , sand, mulch & compost. Never lets me down, you will always have to take drainage into consideration because under what you till is still all clay and will act like a cement pool. Just learn how much water the soil will pool and adjust as your plants grow.





inter.jpg
 
Hepheastus420

Hepheastus420

Well-Known Member
Damn.. I planted my stuff in my clay garden with no sand lol.. I'll see how it goes. So far it's looking good but I just started so they're just growing in the top good soil.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
RyanTheRhino said:
I hate to say it bro but that is a myth. I have all clay, when you add sand to clay and till it you get a bunch of little pebble like clay blobs coated in sand.

Yes this myth dose holds some water but it is not impossible to add sand to make your soil amendment better.
It has some truth because of the different sized particles of sand and clay. Clay is silt like and has very small particles while sand is course and their particles are much larger. I am about to find a diagram to help me explain but if you know how metallic molecules work and know lattice structure works you know what i mean. For those who don't what happens basically is that the smaller clay particles fill the holes in the empty space of the large sand particles so it become more dense and less porous.



If you have 100% clay soil just make sure you have at least

50% sand
50% clay

that combo will work just fine at this ratio you will keep the fertile rich clay with the good drainage of sand.

When I till new clay for a new garden I add river pebbles , sand, mulch & compost. Never lets me down, you will always have to take drainage into consideration because under what you till is still all clay and will act like a cement pool. Just learn how much water the soil will pool and adjust as your plants grow.





View attachment 2269095
Click to expand...
all i know is that the palestinians are using clay/sand mix to build since they can't get building supplies in large abundance.
 
RyanTheRhino

RyanTheRhino

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
all i know is that the palestinians are using clay/sand mix to build since they can't get building supplies in large abundance.
Click to expand...

how would some one i know respond to this ... yes.... sources

just saying what i do and it works so... If you don't have enough sand it will mess up drainage tho
 
RyanTheRhino

RyanTheRhino

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
do NOT mix sand and clay, that's what you do to make cement.

tillers makes easy work of clay. i mix used soil from indoors into my clay, but i also do a lot of growing in the clay alone. keep it well watered and it is just fine for most crops. for certain crops, like potatoes and carrots, i pile on a whole heaping shitload of used soil fro indoors as carrots can not break through a crusty surface and potatoes do not grow well in clay unless you keep it incredibly well watered, which invites other problems.
Click to expand...

also if you want you can dig deep holes for individual plants . fill it with good soil and plant individual plants. its like an in ground potted plant .





And don't get confused over what me and buck are arguing over. The best thing you an do is add as much compost & mulch you have. I am just saying it can be done with sand but you better have a lot of sand. I live by the beach so I can get giant bags of sand for $1. So I do it because it's cheap.




Whats the word buck wants to hear... I won't say hes right but he is more correct.;)
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
RyanTheRhino said:
also if you want you can dig deep holes for individual plants . fill it with good soil and plant individual plants. its like an in ground potted plant .
Click to expand...
pretty much.

and since the OP mentioned tuber/root crops, i must add this: i am done planting potatoes in the ground. harvest is a bitch. you have to dig up an area wider than the plot to avoid slicing potatoes with the shovel, and you'll still hit a few of them anyway, thereby ruining them. i have my second planting of potatoes in a 55 gallon tote this time, half full with soil, and will keep adding soil as the shoots grow and i harvest indoor plants. seems like a perfect idea for an indoor grower who is constantly getting rid of soil and would rather repurpose it than waste it.
 
RyanTheRhino

RyanTheRhino

Well-Known Member
When I do potatoes I buy bags of dirt score the top put a few holes in the bottom of the bag and just plant them right in the bag. when I harvest I just tear the bags open in my garden and reuse the soil in the garden. I have actually gone really organic since then. I have several chicken wire bins that I dump grass clippings in. It makes some really good compst for cheap
 
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