Club T5
- Thread starter C.Indica
- Start date
Undercover Cop
Active Member
Absolutely, the blooms will look like HPS, heavy in yellow and green, and the 6500k's have good blue, but plenty of green/yellow also. They will work but it wont be ideal. You want blue and red. Do some research first to know what you're doing, but you can match HID watt for watt with them T5's
And you certainly can grow, with good results from those bulbs, but you asked about aquarium bulbs...
lagarrettBLUNT
Active Member
Absolutely, the blooms will look like HPS, heavy in yellow and green, and the 6500k's have good blue, but plenty of green/yellow also. They will work but it wont be ideal. You want blue and red. Do some research first to know what you're doing, but you can match HID watt for watt with them T5's
View attachment 2061917View attachment 2061915
View attachment 2061916View attachment 2061914
And you certainly can grow, with good results from those bulbs, but you asked about aquarium bulbs...
Thats awesome setup if i were you guys id be showin off too, i only have two purple cfls T5 [145W together] and a 27W standard cfl and they work great i can only imagine+ look at your pics to see what could be though lol! ill post pics when i can
overTHEman
Active Member
Yes, like this. If there's ever a bloom panel to emulate, this is the one.
PSUAGRO.
Well-Known Member
Well well well what we got here......
80 dollars as promised(not in the box/bulbs where wrapped in the fixture though).....Nice guy living in a shitty neighborhood...even offered me coffee/which I had/i'm cheap..
left before it got even close to dark outside...........hahaha
So should I keep these (agrolite/6400k bulbs) for veg or start mixing and matching????
80 dollars as promised(not in the box/bulbs where wrapped in the fixture though).....Nice guy living in a shitty neighborhood...even offered me coffee/which I had/i'm cheap..
left before it got even close to dark outside...........hahaha
So should I keep these (agrolite/6400k bulbs) for veg or start mixing and matching????
ohmy
Well-Known Member
I have the 12 bulb t5 just like that... LIke mine so far
bobhoop
Active Member
Hiyea undercover...Im way confused now....the 8, 6500 k lights that come with the hydrofarm, I have to keep cuz there free,Absolutely, the blooms will look like HPS, heavy in yellow and green, and the 6500k's have good blue, but plenty of green/yellow also. They will work but it wont be ideal. You want blue and red. Do some research first to know what you're doing, but you can match HID watt for watt with them T5's
View attachment 2061917View attachment 2061915
View attachment 2061916View attachment 2061914
And you certainly can grow, with good results from those bulbs, but you asked about aquarium bulbs...
but are you guys saying I should'nt buy the 8, 2900k, quatums for blooming and instead buy 2 or 4 and supplement the other 4 or 6 with other color lights?
Would you please tell me what you would use in a 2'x2'x4' space with 4 auto trans siberian . I am ordering a hydrofarm 2'-- 8 tube system, and how would you run your lights? 24/7
6500k for a month and then switch to 2900k for a month, or a bunch of colors for both phases...You the man, im going with what you recommend ......Thank you very much from a guy retiring in 20 months and wants to build some stash ....straight for 30 years...(I know scary)
Undercover Cop
Active Member
Ambitious, I like it! I'm at work now on my phone, so the long explanation you need won't work now, later tonite or tomorrow I'll get to all of that. Short answer, 6500s are fine, especially when theyre free! But if youre buying the bloom bulbs, save your money. 8$ ea? Much better options than the generic blooms. Look through my grow (my sig) in the meantime to SEE what I mean, and ill answer your?s abit later. Sry, it took awhile to type this on my phone, and you have about 3 pages of answers coming
Undercover Cop
Active Member
Yeah I wanna see the purple cfls, brand? Do you have SPDs for em?Thats awesome setup if i were you guys id be showin off too, i only have two purple cfls T5 [145W together] and a 27W standard cfl and they work great i can only imagine+ look at your pics to see what could be though lol! ill post pics when i can
Undercover Cop
Active Member
Psuagro, ill have answers for you too good score btw! Bobhoop, did you already order your fixture? If not, I have a secret for you
good score btw! Bobhoop, did you already order your fixture? If not, I have a secret for you
bobhoop
Active Member
Thankyou, Undercover, the only thing I got so far is 6 seeds ordered and I bought a bag of super potting soil, lts suppose to have all the junk in it already. Aurora 707 , buy thePsuagro, ill have answers for you too
way the fixure was going to be 150, the extra 8 2900 k quantums are going to be an extra 55
PSUAGRO.
Well-Known Member
^^^^^your area is 2x2x4 correct i just measured my panel which is the 2' 8bulb and your talking a tight sqeeze brother......are u sure all the walls are true(absolutely flat)around your area because your barely passing cords past this panel in that space.....just think about it and remeasure...like undercover said(most growers agree) two smaller panels are better in most situations...just a thought...
For my veg only area.....I'm thinking going all white(2/6400k/2/5100k/2/10000k/2/2700k)...htg supply is doing 8bulb 2foot bulbs(your choice of temp) for 34.00 (agromaxx bulbs??sounds shitty)
expecting some serious veg out this panel....
happy growing...
For my veg only area.....I'm thinking going all white(2/6400k/2/5100k/2/10000k/2/2700k)...htg supply is doing 8bulb 2foot bulbs(your choice of temp) for 34.00 (agromaxx bulbs??sounds shitty)
expecting some serious veg out this panel....
happy growing...
bobhoop
Active Member
Thanks ..Psuagro....its Really has more room than that, but thats the largest area. Its under a semi spiral (dont know what else to call it, goes uo does a 90 and goes up again).. demishing stair case. Thats just the tallest height side of the stairs, the other demishing side starts at 30'' and goes down to the first step. Im attempting to vent out into a 1' wide stucco wall and intake behind my washer and dryer wall. I have to be 100% stealthy, do to my 17 year old daughter. I did a fan test today and i could here it very well through the carpeted stairs...So I have a lot of sound insulating to do and prehaps, use only computer fans,,,,,,thank you for your time
,
Undercover Cop
Active Member
oh lordy where do we start? get a sandwhich and hunker down, this will be long.
as for sizes, if your floor area is exactly 2x2 then you may have issues because the cord comes out the side and will add about an inch to an otherwise exactly 2' long fixture... cut a small hole in the side of the tent to slip the cord through then tape it up? hmmm. and a 2'x8 fixture would be really good for seedlings, but 2-3 plants would easily fill out and occupy the whole footprint... a 4' fixture would be plenty for 4plants through flowering, but a 2' fixture is really only gonna cover a 2' area since you want to keep your bulbs as close to the tops as possible, so your footprint is limited to about the size of the fixture. Something to keep in mind.
As for the spectrum. The bulbs you were talking about (psuagro also, although I know you're familiar with PAR already) they all have Blue/Green/Yellow, for the most efficient photosynthesis you want blue/red. Those lights were developed to provide light for the human eye, which is most receptive to green wavelengths at about 555nm. plants "see" differently. They are most receptive to Blue light around 440nm and Red around 630-660. NONE of those bulbs have any red at all, they all peak at 610nm which technically is still in the orange range and is not very well used in the photosynthesis process. They ALL use a "tri-band phosphor" to create the emitted light. There are actually 3 main wavelengths (colors) of light that blend to make a white-ish light. If it is heavier in the orange range the "kelvin" temp are lower (ala 2700k and 3000k which are referred to as WARM) If the light appears "bluer" it traditionally has a higher kelvin temp, a 6500k bulb next to a 2700k bulb will appear very blue and crisp next to the warm and glowing orangish 2700k bulb. All the light you see is created by 3 colors blending though, blue/green/orange. The only useful photonic energy you're gonna get from any of these bulbs is blue (for the most part, this is the beginners class, we got a long way to go if you want advanced lol).
Now some will argue that if the bloom bulbs are mostly wasted orange/yellow light, and the plants really want Red, they why can you grow with them??!?
Yes the orange bloom bulbs will work despite their lack of actual Red. But just like with HPS which are actually a very poor providers of light for photosynthesis, you can bombard a plant with enough photons and it will get enough energy from it to thrive, but it will never reach its full potential without the kinda light it really wants. For optimal photosynthesis, your plants want what is called PAR, Photosynthetically Active Radiation. This is like the powerband for light, that is most efficiently used by chlorophyll.
Now most "tri-band fluoros" have spikes in three areas...
1. blue (which most ALL provide a pretty good spectrum in blue and cover the plants needs quite well, its hard to find a bulb that DOESNT provide a plants full dose of blue) both chlorophyll A and B have spikes in the blue range, from about 430-450nm, which most commercial bulbs are abundant in. Blue is VERY important to the plants, but there are only two bulbs I know of that dont contain blue, so you dont have to worry about it too much. You'll have plenty to provide your plants.
2. green (again, its hard to find a bulb that doesnt have a spike near 555nm green) green is not completely un-used, as its presence in a light blend can increase the efficiency that OTHER colors are processed by the chlorophyll, but it is not utilized much in the photosynthetic process itself. Not completely useless, but its hard to avoid so you dont need to worry about providing it, you'll get some no matter what.
3. orange (red...) Again its very difficult to find a bulb that doesnt have its 3rd spike in the vicinity of 610nm (phosphors that emit higher than this (630/660nm+) are very expensive and are the golden egg for growers) Plants use this 610 wavelength very poorly, just a little deeper and you get around 630nm which is technically where the reds start, and where plants start to use the light more efficiently. The peaks being at 630nm and 660nm. Bulbs with these wavelengths are gonna be more expensive due to the expensive/rarer phosphors, and they wont be used in commercial lighting because they will emit a more rosy glow with a low CRI... not good for people's sight.
So these tri-band bulbs simply adjust the levels of each peak to give its hue, bloom bulbs have alot of orange and less blue, grow/6500k bulbs have more blue and less orange. 4100k and 5000k both have lots of green which is great for us to see with and appear WHITE, but are creating light that is about as useful to plants as a skateboard is to stephen hawking Its all about adjusting the levels of these 3 cheap phosphors to create a blend that will emit a certain "color" hue, all designed for humans.
Now for veg, red isnt as important. It will promote faster growth which includes lengthened internode length. My veg blend has a low proportion of red to blue, which causes slightly slower growth, but its very short and squatty and VERY short node distances (like 8 nodes at 3inches I would estimate the proportions of my veg blend to be about 10blue, 5red to 1-2green.
For flowering, obviously red is more important, I think my flower blend is probably 10red, 7blue, 2green...
Ok, basically Im saying the cheapo bulbs are good for vegging, since they dont provide much red (even the blooms), but for flowering you'll need to supplement the reds somehow. AquaMedic Plant Grow, ATI ProColor, AquaticLife Roseates, ZooMed FloraSun, CoralLife Colormax all provide 630-66nm and are marketed for freshwater aquatic plants or reptiles. UVL RedSun/RedLife are the only bulbs I know that are almost pure PAR Red at 630nm, but they're hard to find now since they made a bad batch that are failing (2of my 4 crapped out in the first week) hopefully that will be fixed soon.
For Veg, you'll do fine with all 6500k's as I did when I started with all grow bulbs. I got much shorter and squattier/bushier plants (granted slightly slower growing) when I added 2of4 bulbs in pure blue (wavepoint BlueWave and ReefWave which cover 420nm-450nm/// $8ea). Im still getting short/bushy plants but a little quicker growth now that I changed those two 6500k's to FloraSuns which provide 630-660nm red instead of the 610nm provided with the generic 6500k's.
For flowering, I'd just as soon stick with all 6500k's over the blooms, they produce too much orange/yellow/green which isnt used very well. The grow bulbs will at least be giving a bigger dose of blue which is better used by chlorophyll. I would make an order now for 2 UVL RedSuns, they're about $20ea, but they're the only way to get your levels of red up enough to give a boost to the flowering process. Otherwise FloraSuns are only 8$ea and are an excellent bulb to use in flowering. WavePoint CoralWave bulbs (8$)are essentially a blue actinic bulb providing a boost of Infrared at 760nm which helps to trigger flowering.
before buying any bulbs, see if you can get a fixture that will provide actininc bulbs so you have some pure blue bulbs as well as 6500k's. Some fixtures can be ordered with your choice of bulbs, actininc/10000k for aquariums or grow/bloom.
With 4 6500k bulbs, throw in one or two WavePoint BlueWave and ReefWaves for a boost of blue during veg and you'll get much bushier plants with shorter nodes.
for flowering, swap those 4 6500k's out for FloraSuns, swap out two of the blue bulbs for RedSuns, and the other two blue bulbs for WavePoint CoralWaves which will still give the full blue plus the IR to trigger flowering.
Veg=8bulbs...
4-6 or 8 6500k's ...+ optional improvements
1-2 WavePoint BlueWave
1-2 WavePoint ReefWave
Flowering=8bulbs...
4 ZooMed FloraSuns
2 UVL RedSuns
2 WavePoint CoralWaves
Shopping List!!! (in addition to your free 6500k bulbs)
4 ZooMed FloraSuns x 8$ea
2 WavePoint CoralWave x 8$ea (Actinic +IR)
2 UVL RedSuns x 20$ea
optional improvements...
2 WavePoint BlueWave x 8$ea (replaced by the cheap actinics if you can get them with you fixture)
2 WavePoint ReefWave x 8$ea (deeper blue than the 460nm actinics)
Gimme a little time to edit this to add some pics and SPDs (spectral distribution graphs), Im super stoned and rambly and need to clean this up. Sorry if I went into stuff you already know, but bottom line, most any light will grow plants, but you want the best results you can with what you got, so you gotta do it the best you can right
Hopefully a few can learn something new from this. Check my signature for some nice pics to illustrate my ramblings better
as for sizes, if your floor area is exactly 2x2 then you may have issues because the cord comes out the side and will add about an inch to an otherwise exactly 2' long fixture... cut a small hole in the side of the tent to slip the cord through then tape it up? hmmm. and a 2'x8 fixture would be really good for seedlings, but 2-3 plants would easily fill out and occupy the whole footprint... a 4' fixture would be plenty for 4plants through flowering, but a 2' fixture is really only gonna cover a 2' area since you want to keep your bulbs as close to the tops as possible, so your footprint is limited to about the size of the fixture. Something to keep in mind.
As for the spectrum. The bulbs you were talking about (psuagro also, although I know you're familiar with PAR already) they all have Blue/Green/Yellow, for the most efficient photosynthesis you want blue/red. Those lights were developed to provide light for the human eye, which is most receptive to green wavelengths at about 555nm. plants "see" differently. They are most receptive to Blue light around 440nm and Red around 630-660. NONE of those bulbs have any red at all, they all peak at 610nm which technically is still in the orange range and is not very well used in the photosynthesis process. They ALL use a "tri-band phosphor" to create the emitted light. There are actually 3 main wavelengths (colors) of light that blend to make a white-ish light. If it is heavier in the orange range the "kelvin" temp are lower (ala 2700k and 3000k which are referred to as WARM) If the light appears "bluer" it traditionally has a higher kelvin temp, a 6500k bulb next to a 2700k bulb will appear very blue and crisp next to the warm and glowing orangish 2700k bulb. All the light you see is created by 3 colors blending though, blue/green/orange. The only useful photonic energy you're gonna get from any of these bulbs is blue (for the most part, this is the beginners class, we got a long way to go if you want advanced lol).
Now some will argue that if the bloom bulbs are mostly wasted orange/yellow light, and the plants really want Red, they why can you grow with them??!?
Yes the orange bloom bulbs will work despite their lack of actual Red. But just like with HPS which are actually a very poor providers of light for photosynthesis, you can bombard a plant with enough photons and it will get enough energy from it to thrive, but it will never reach its full potential without the kinda light it really wants. For optimal photosynthesis, your plants want what is called PAR, Photosynthetically Active Radiation. This is like the powerband for light, that is most efficiently used by chlorophyll.
Now most "tri-band fluoros" have spikes in three areas...
1. blue (which most ALL provide a pretty good spectrum in blue and cover the plants needs quite well, its hard to find a bulb that DOESNT provide a plants full dose of blue) both chlorophyll A and B have spikes in the blue range, from about 430-450nm, which most commercial bulbs are abundant in. Blue is VERY important to the plants, but there are only two bulbs I know of that dont contain blue, so you dont have to worry about it too much. You'll have plenty to provide your plants.
2. green (again, its hard to find a bulb that doesnt have a spike near 555nm green) green is not completely un-used, as its presence in a light blend can increase the efficiency that OTHER colors are processed by the chlorophyll, but it is not utilized much in the photosynthetic process itself. Not completely useless, but its hard to avoid so you dont need to worry about providing it, you'll get some no matter what.
3. orange (red...) Again its very difficult to find a bulb that doesnt have its 3rd spike in the vicinity of 610nm (phosphors that emit higher than this (630/660nm+) are very expensive and are the golden egg for growers) Plants use this 610 wavelength very poorly, just a little deeper and you get around 630nm which is technically where the reds start, and where plants start to use the light more efficiently. The peaks being at 630nm and 660nm. Bulbs with these wavelengths are gonna be more expensive due to the expensive/rarer phosphors, and they wont be used in commercial lighting because they will emit a more rosy glow with a low CRI... not good for people's sight.
So these tri-band bulbs simply adjust the levels of each peak to give its hue, bloom bulbs have alot of orange and less blue, grow/6500k bulbs have more blue and less orange. 4100k and 5000k both have lots of green which is great for us to see with and appear WHITE, but are creating light that is about as useful to plants as a skateboard is to stephen hawking
Its all about adjusting the levels of these 3 cheap phosphors to create a blend that will emit a certain "color" hue, all designed for humans. Now for veg, red isnt as important. It will promote faster growth which includes lengthened internode length. My veg blend has a low proportion of red to blue, which causes slightly slower growth, but its very short and squatty and VERY short node distances (like 8 nodes at 3inches
I would estimate the proportions of my veg blend to be about 10blue, 5red to 1-2green.For flowering, obviously red is more important, I think my flower blend is probably 10red, 7blue, 2green...
Ok, basically Im saying the cheapo bulbs are good for vegging, since they dont provide much red (even the blooms), but for flowering you'll need to supplement the reds somehow. AquaMedic Plant Grow, ATI ProColor, AquaticLife Roseates, ZooMed FloraSun, CoralLife Colormax all provide 630-66nm and are marketed for freshwater aquatic plants or reptiles. UVL RedSun/RedLife are the only bulbs I know that are almost pure PAR Red at 630nm, but they're hard to find now since they made a bad batch that are failing (2of my 4 crapped out in the first week) hopefully that will be fixed soon.
For Veg, you'll do fine with all 6500k's as I did when I started with all grow bulbs. I got much shorter and squattier/bushier plants (granted slightly slower growing) when I added 2of4 bulbs in pure blue (wavepoint BlueWave and ReefWave which cover 420nm-450nm/// $8ea). Im still getting short/bushy plants but a little quicker growth now that I changed those two 6500k's to FloraSuns which provide 630-660nm red instead of the 610nm provided with the generic 6500k's.
For flowering, I'd just as soon stick with all 6500k's over the blooms, they produce too much orange/yellow/green which isnt used very well. The grow bulbs will at least be giving a bigger dose of blue which is better used by chlorophyll. I would make an order now for 2 UVL RedSuns, they're about $20ea, but they're the only way to get your levels of red up enough to give a boost to the flowering process. Otherwise FloraSuns are only 8$ea and are an excellent bulb to use in flowering. WavePoint CoralWave bulbs (8$)are essentially a blue actinic bulb providing a boost of Infrared at 760nm which helps to trigger flowering.
before buying any bulbs, see if you can get a fixture that will provide actininc bulbs so you have some pure blue bulbs as well as 6500k's. Some fixtures can be ordered with your choice of bulbs, actininc/10000k for aquariums or grow/bloom.
With 4 6500k bulbs, throw in one or two WavePoint BlueWave and ReefWaves for a boost of blue during veg and you'll get much bushier plants with shorter nodes.
for flowering, swap those 4 6500k's out for FloraSuns, swap out two of the blue bulbs for RedSuns, and the other two blue bulbs for WavePoint CoralWaves which will still give the full blue plus the IR to trigger flowering.
Veg=8bulbs...
4-6 or 8 6500k's ...+ optional improvements
1-2 WavePoint BlueWave
1-2 WavePoint ReefWave
Flowering=8bulbs...
4 ZooMed FloraSuns
2 UVL RedSuns
2 WavePoint CoralWaves
Shopping List!!! (in addition to your free 6500k bulbs)
4 ZooMed FloraSuns x 8$ea
2 WavePoint CoralWave x 8$ea (Actinic +IR)
2 UVL RedSuns x 20$ea
optional improvements...
2 WavePoint BlueWave x 8$ea (replaced by the cheap actinics if you can get them with you fixture)
2 WavePoint ReefWave x 8$ea (deeper blue than the 460nm actinics)
Gimme a little time to edit this to add some pics and SPDs (spectral distribution graphs), Im super stoned and rambly and need to clean this up. Sorry if I went into stuff you already know, but bottom line, most any light will grow plants, but you want the best results you can with what you got, so you gotta do it the best you can right
Hopefully a few can learn something new from this. Check my signature for some nice pics to illustrate my ramblings better
Undercover Cop
Active Member
yeah 8 bucks each, save your money and get FloraSuns instead, Aquariumguys.com 8$ they'll appear pinkish, but have 630-660nm red instead of the yellow/orange.
I do all hydro so you're on your own with soil/nutes there. overTHEman is great with organics (he's on my thread)
And if your area is oblong or oddly shaped, I'd DEFINATELY reccommend two 4bulb fixtures over the single squarish 8bulb. you can turn the 4bulbs on their side and tweak their position to cover multiple plants at different sizes alot better. absolutely, even if its more (which its not
$70ea for 2'4bulb) go for the two, you'll thank me!
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
What does Stealthy and a 17 yo daughter have in common? NOTHING! First the word 'she'= nosey. Unless she is a zombie, she's gonna sniff it out. Secondly, growing is more addictive than you can imagine. You WILL be checking up constantly when home, and she is likely to walk in on you. As this is a concern, and rightfully so, I wouldn't grow until she has left the nest.Thanks ..Psuagro....its Really has more room than that, but thats the largest area. Its under a semi spiral (dont know what else to call it, goes uo does a 90 and goes up again).. demishing stair case. Thats just the tallest height side of the stairs, the other demishing side starts at 30'' and goes down to the first step. Im attempting to vent out into a 1' wide stucco wall and intake behind my washer and dryer wall. I have to be 100% stealthy, do to my 17 year old daughter. I did a fan test today and i could here it very well through the carpeted stairs...So I have a lot of sound insulating to do and prehaps, use only computer fans,,,,,,thank you for your time
Indicanna Jones
Active Member
HMMM....... Well firstly locks would be a good idea. As for sound, maybe a decorative fountain would cover the fan sounds (quite soothing as well) And of course a carbon filter would be in order to eliminate any odors.
PSUAGRO.
Well-Known Member
Thanks UCC .....yeah i love craigslist..its really a nice light my first T5.....always used t8/hid(cmh) in the past...this is just a little side project....
Anyways I think your recommendations are spot on.....But I have noticed something of late in both the led and floro community...Its all about the white baby(full spectrum)
I see more and more new led panels(isunlight/daystar) using only white leds instead of spectral specific wavelength diodes(granted still need the 660nm/as you said), and getting great results. Even in the floro community and prof's thread some are starting to go back to white bulbs/price/ease of purchase, and it just not worth the premium price to switch to these spectral specific bulbs(they are/for the most part?expensive to replace)...god even blueb is starting to promote their viability in our hobby...
If i'm wrong and/ or misrepresented anything please correct me.........thoughts????
be safe/happy growing..
Anyways I think your recommendations are spot on.....But I have noticed something of late in both the led and floro community...Its all about the white baby(full spectrum)
I see more and more new led panels(isunlight/daystar) using only white leds instead of spectral specific wavelength diodes(granted still need the 660nm/as you said), and getting great results. Even in the floro community and prof's thread some are starting to go back to white bulbs/price/ease of purchase, and it just not worth the premium price to switch to these spectral specific bulbs(they are/for the most part?expensive to replace)...god even blueb is starting to promote their viability in our hobby...
If i'm wrong and/ or misrepresented anything please correct me.........thoughts????
be safe/happy growing..
bobhoop
Active Member
O.K... So whats you saying is, I need a Sandwich........
.....hehe just kidding....thanks for all your hard work.....I am a little concerned abour PetFlora response to my 17 yearold daughter....will If the odor starts to get to strong. ill just discontinue the grow.
.....hehe just kidding....thanks for all your hard work.....I am a little concerned abour PetFlora response to my 17 yearold daughter....will If the odor starts to get to strong. ill just discontinue the grow.oh lordy where do we start? get a sandwhich and hunker down, this will be long.
as for sizes, if your floor area is exactly 2x2 then you may have issues because the cord comes out the side and will add about an inch to an otherwise exactly 2' long fixture... cut a small hole in the side of the tent to slip the cord through then tape it up? hmmm. and a 2'x8 fixture would be really good for seedlings, but 2-3 plants would easily fill out and occupy the whole footprint... a 4' fixture would be plenty for 4plants through flowering, but a 2' fixture is really only gonna cover a 2' area since you want to keep your bulbs as close to the tops as possible, so your footprint is limited to about the size of the fixture. Something to keep in mind.
As for the spectrum. The bulbs you were talking about (psuagro also, although I know you're familiar with PAR already) they all have Blue/Green/Yellow, for the most efficient photosynthesis you want blue/red. Those lights were developed to provide light for the human eye, which is most receptive to green wavelengths at about 555nm. plants "see" differently. They are most receptive to Blue light around 440nm and Red around 630-660. NONE of those bulbs have any red at all, they all peak at 610nm which technically is still in the orange range and is not very well used in the photosynthesis process. They ALL use a "tri-band phosphor" to create the emitted light. There are actually 3 main wavelengths (colors) of light that blend to make a white-ish light. If it is heavier in the orange range the "kelvin" temp are lower (ala 2700k and 3000k which are referred to as WARM) If the light appears "bluer" it traditionally has a higher kelvin temp, a 6500k bulb next to a 2700k bulb will appear very blue and crisp next to the warm and glowing orangish 2700k bulb. All the light you see is created by 3 colors blending though, blue/green/orange. The only useful photonic energy you're gonna get from any of these bulbs is blue (for the most part, this is the beginners class, we got a long way to go if you want advanced lol).
Now some will argue that if the bloom bulbs are mostly wasted orange/yellow light, and the plants really want Red, they why can you grow with them??!?
Yes the orange bloom bulbs will work despite their lack of actual Red. But just like with HPS which are actually a very poor providers of light for photosynthesis, you can bombard a plant with enough photons and it will get enough energy from it to thrive, but it will never reach its full potential without the kinda light it really wants. For optimal photosynthesis, your plants want what is called PAR, Photosynthetically Active Radiation. This is like the powerband for light, that is most efficiently used by chlorophyll.
Now most "tri-band fluoros" have spikes in three areas...
1. blue (which most ALL provide a pretty good spectrum in blue and cover the plants needs quite well, its hard to find a bulb that DOESNT provide a plants full dose of blue) both chlorophyll A and B have spikes in the blue range, from about 430-450nm, which most commercial bulbs are abundant in. Blue is VERY important to the plants, but there are only two bulbs I know of that dont contain blue, so you dont have to worry about it too much. You'll have plenty to provide your plants.
2. green (again, its hard to find a bulb that doesnt have a spike near 555nm green) green is not completely un-used, as its presence in a light blend can increase the efficiency that OTHER colors are processed by the chlorophyll, but it is not utilized much in the photosynthetic process itself. Not completely useless, but its hard to avoid so you dont need to worry about providing it, you'll get some no matter what.
3. orange (red...) Again its very difficult to find a bulb that doesnt have its 3rd spike in the vicinity of 610nm (phosphors that emit higher than this (630/660nm+) are very expensive and are the golden egg for growers) Plants use this 610 wavelength very poorly, just a little deeper and you get around 630nm which is technically where the reds start, and where plants start to use the light more efficiently. The peaks being at 630nm and 660nm. Bulbs with these wavelengths are gonna be more expensive due to the expensive/rarer phosphors, and they wont be used in commercial lighting because they will emit a more rosy glow with a low CRI... not good for people's sight.
So these tri-band bulbs simply adjust the levels of each peak to give its hue, bloom bulbs have alot of orange and less blue, grow/6500k bulbs have more blue and less orange. 4100k and 5000k both have lots of green which is great for us to see with and appear WHITE, but are creating light that is about as useful to plants as a skateboard is to stephen hawking
Now for veg, red isnt as important. It will promote faster growth which includes lengthened internode length. My veg blend has a low proportion of red to blue, which causes slightly slower growth, but its very short and squatty and VERY short node distances (like 8 nodes at 3inches
For flowering, obviously red is more important, I think my flower blend is probably 10red, 7blue, 2green...
Ok, basically Im saying the cheapo bulbs are good for vegging, since they dont provide much red (even the blooms), but for flowering you'll need to supplement the reds somehow. AquaMedic Plant Grow, ATI ProColor, AquaticLife Roseates, ZooMed FloraSun, CoralLife Colormax all provide 630-66nm and are marketed for freshwater aquatic plants or reptiles. UVL RedSun/RedLife are the only bulbs I know that are almost pure PAR Red at 630nm, but they're hard to find now since they made a bad batch that are failing (2of my 4 crapped out in the first week) hopefully that will be fixed soon.
For Veg, you'll do fine with all 6500k's as I did when I started with all grow bulbs. I got much shorter and squattier/bushier plants (granted slightly slower growing) when I added 2of4 bulbs in pure blue (wavepoint BlueWave and ReefWave which cover 420nm-450nm/// $8ea). Im still getting short/bushy plants but a little quicker growth now that I changed those two 6500k's to FloraSuns which provide 630-660nm red instead of the 610nm provided with the generic 6500k's.
For flowering, I'd just as soon stick with all 6500k's over the blooms, they produce too much orange/yellow/green which isnt used very well. The grow bulbs will at least be giving a bigger dose of blue which is better used by chlorophyll. I would make an order now for 2 UVL RedSuns, they're about $20ea, but they're the only way to get your levels of red up enough to give a boost to the flowering process. Otherwise FloraSuns are only 8$ea and are an excellent bulb to use in flowering. WavePoint CoralWave bulbs (8$)are essentially a blue actinic bulb providing a boost of Infrared at 760nm which helps to trigger flowering.
before buying any bulbs, see if you can get a fixture that will provide actininc bulbs so you have some pure blue bulbs as well as 6500k's. Some fixtures can be ordered with your choice of bulbs, actininc/10000k for aquariums or grow/bloom.
With 4 6500k bulbs, throw in one or two WavePoint BlueWave and ReefWaves for a boost of blue during veg and you'll get much bushier plants with shorter nodes.
for flowering, swap those 4 6500k's out for FloraSuns, swap out two of the blue bulbs for RedSuns, and the other two blue bulbs for WavePoint CoralWaves which will still give the full blue plus the IR to trigger flowering.
Veg=8bulbs...
4-6 or 8 6500k's ...+ optional improvements
1-2 WavePoint BlueWave
1-2 WavePoint ReefWave
Flowering=8bulbs...
4 ZooMed FloraSuns
2 UVL RedSuns
2 WavePoint CoralWaves
Shopping List!!! (in addition to your free 6500k bulbs)
4 ZooMed FloraSuns x 8$ea
2 WavePoint CoralWave x 8$ea (Actinic +IR)
2 UVL RedSuns x 20$ea
optional improvements...
2 WavePoint BlueWave x 8$ea (replaced by the cheap actinics if you can get them with you fixture)
2 WavePoint ReefWave x 8$ea (deeper blue than the 460nm actinics)
Gimme a little time to edit this to add some pics and SPDs (spectral distribution graphs), Im super stoned and rambly and need to clean this up. Sorry if I went into stuff you already know, but bottom line, most any light will grow plants, but you want the best results you can with what you got, so you gotta do it the best you can right
Hopefully a few can learn something new from this. Check my signature for some nice pics to illustrate my ramblings better
Undercover Cop
Active Member
LED and Fluoros are completely different.
LEDs can emit a more specific wavelength based on their design, theyre not limited to a phosphor, they can be designed to emit light at whatever wavelength designed. White LED's usually still contain a blend of 2-3 colors to give their white hue since WHITE is not actually a color, its a combo of colors, the only true colors are ROYGBIV red orange yellow green blue indigo violet. White LED's work because they contain blue which is PAR. You can get pure color LED's at specific NM's, however most that are mass produced and are affordable, are made for commercial purposes, not the deeper red colors needed for growing. Proper colors for growing are more expensive cuz they're not mass produced in China. So unless you're paying a few hundred dollars for a proper LED unit, you're probably getting cheap 610nm LEDs or underpowered, under rated wattage, ebay ripoffs. Unless you have Big$, I wouldnt suggest catching the LED bug cuz you'll be shorting yourself with cheap fixtures (ala UFO)
Check out some SPD's for different bulbs you come across ... google image search the tube name and SPD or Spectrum and you should find the published graphs for each light. Fluoros emit light based on their phosphoric composition. A huge majority are Tri-band, most all commercial bulbs are. Like I said they contain relatively eaqual amounts of blue/green and red(orange) to create their white hue, and from those common tubes the blue is about the only light that is used heavily by chlorophyll. For Veg they'll work fine based soley on their blue output. For flowering you need a more specific spectrum that is higher in true red (630-700nm-ish) Specialty bulbs that contain Red arent produced as widely and use a 5 band phosphor. They still provide blue and green (usually less than commercial tubes) but they dont use the poor quality 610nm for red, they emit 630-660.
The only bulb I suggested over $8 is the RedSun ($20) because it is almost PURE 630nm red and is the only one like it.
The best bulb to get 660nm from in my opinion is the ZooMed FloraSun (only $ 8
)WavePoint bulbs, BlueWave and ReefWave are both good additions to a Veg spectrum, and the CoralWave will provide Blue and IR for Flowering. Wavepoints are only $8
PlantMax, AgroMax and Quantum bulbs are what 6-8$ ea, and are all cheap tri-band phosphors. If you're buying bulbs, I would suggest paying the little bit (one or two dollars) more for the proper bulbs with true red. And you'll see the faster growth from the red with the short stocky bushiness from the blue. You can grow with almost any bulb, I bought a 500w Halogen Work light when I first started out, and my plants grew, with about 4" between nodes! And there are lots of people who go full grow with blooms or grows, people use HPS from start to finish, but its not optimal. You can feed a kid bigmacs his whole life and he'll still grow to be 6ft tall, but will he end up with heart disease and diabetes, vs a kid who grew up eating properly and exercising? You'll see a huge improvement with a proper spectrum vs substandard light.