CO2 Extraction and MMCs - question on how things work

I believe that each MMC creates their own extract of their plants on site... Correct? I also theorize that the reason why their extract is primarily BHO (nothin wrong with that) is because SuperCritical (SC) CO2 extraction is perceived as being difficult, dangerous and too expensive. Would this be a fair statement? Could a business that had a mobile CO2 extraction unit come to a dispensary and offer a CO2 extraction service on site? Would that be legal?

I've been lookin at it and it ain't rocket science. Some significant pressures, but not really so compared to other industries. (I.e. SC utility steam boilers operate at 4,000 psi with steam temps ~ 1,300F... think about the stored energy in a cuft of that steam, it'll literally cut you in half sorry for graphic description of perils)

I could build this gadget, even get the pressure vessel stamped.

I think you'd have a hard time getting business, just because people are secretive. But ask around. Best idea is go straight to the source w some of your own product and a number and c what happens. Maybe a friends place?

Shops can't make their own CO2/BHO without a MIPs (medically infused products) license. I have seen a couple places in town that were sending out emails advertising a machine for
rent. Co2 is pretty nice, but properly attended to BHO can be really nice as well, and the prices are typically far from the same with co2 being much higher.

I'd say if you can make a prototype and get it going. I'd be interested in something like that if you had a working prototype and was affordable.

disposition84 said:

I'd say if you can make a prototype and get it going. I'd be interested in something like that if you had a working prototype and was affordable.

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Well, there are a couple of outfits making them in pre-fabbed skids already - not sure what they cost, but they look kind of small for the scale I was thinking. Also, I wasn't thinking of selling the units, if I were to design them, rather operate like those mobile shredder trucks you see that go to offices and shred pallets of old files. A service business in other words. Not a direct manufacturer of the raw product or a resailer of refined product, just the guy in the niche in between.

Not trying to bust your bubble but aren't there already companies doing this? Maybe not on site but its not hard to manifest product and take to the site of the extractor. Id rather drive something that gets 40+ mpg than a co2 van getting 8 mpg. Disp are spaced from lyons down to durango. I know there are companies doing it for bho and ice water : huxley bros and essential extracts to name a couple. How many people are out there looking to score co2 extract?

X2 on people in the industry being secretive. You could have the best ideas but since you aren't in their clique they won't work with you. This industry has very tight circles.

I thought of starting something similar to what you were thinking of. Since you can't medicate on site I wanted a mini motorhome for a dab lab. When attempting to score new accounts bring out the manager/owner to the dab lab. How can they not order a bunch of product after their face was dabbed off?



Just more food for thought.

Thanks very much, just a thought I had and I appreciate the straight talk. I figured there was a market for this service, but it sounds crowded, so forget that idea . I'll stick to what I'm good at, making things, especially high alloy metal pressure vessels, piping and valves and controls. I think I'll head for the other end of the scale and see what I think I could get the cost down to for a unit for personal use. Think there would be a market for that?

so could you build one of these? http://www.tamisiumextractors.com/te175-table-top-extractor-175ml/standard-package That guy has been making them before the mmj scene came to play. He has a factory in china making them for him now. Alot of people complain on the price but people know the price of steel say its a fair price. There are a few other companies now obi one etc making sealed extraction units. So this market is just about as crowded. Either of them are still in the early stages and I think theres still a chances to get in the game before the ships sale.

They want $1,200 for that? Hell yes I can build it, but I wouldn't put my name to it lol. I opened the picture for a close up. Dude, the welds are very poor quality. Even with the low resolution pic, I can see horrible under cut and what appears to be big slag inclusions... just awful. I can personally weld better than that (not my profession but I can hum the tune), but the guys that work with me are virtuoso welders. I bet labor and materials on that contraption wouldn't be more than $500... not even. The pressure is only 1,200 psi or so, I wonder what the thickness of the material is, I'll cypher it later but I'm guessing 5/8". Piece of cake....unless there's some special guts in there that is awfully fiddly.

You know, after reading my post it sounds pretty condescending. Truth is, this guy has a working model and all I have is talk, which is cheap yeah? The welds are poor though....

Ok, so I'm a bit shame faced about flapping my jaw about the CO2 extractor, so I'm gonna build one and see where it goes. Got serious research to do though... The fabrication will be the easy part.

I had the two oz model.welds were far from sexy...

Thanks for popping back in and thanks in advance for any questions you could answer for me... I know I'm a pain, lol. Mind if i ask some questions? Did it work well? Do you remember the size of the mesh screen at the bottom of the extract column?


Sorry for all that follows, being baked, i expect this will be long winded.


I dug around in the site and the Q&A section says the extractor is really for butane. You know i wondered how that ring collar that holds the evap pot on was gonna hold up to 1,000+ psi.....Here is part of the answer to the question of whether it can be used with CO2:


You could use CO2 in our system as long as you keep the system open to the air and you don’t add more pressure to the system than butane would add under normal use. If you want to go above that, you would need another machine and much higher price tag and lot of instruction before you could use it safely and effectively.


What pressure would you use with butane. Not much huh? Butane stays liquid at just 40 psi or so and don't you really want to minimize flow speed through the buds to pick up all that goodness with minimum amount of gas? This gadget does have a method to reclaim the butane, which is just cool. Some of my reading has already indicated that CO2 extractions can be done far below the temp/pressure needed to achieve a supercritical state (I.e. acts like a liquid and a gas... Kind of). Did you use it with CO2? If so did you have the cryo pumps?


By raising the temperature in the solvent pressurization tank, it would serve the purpose of also raising the pressure thereby eliminating pumps... There is a guy onto this at www.skunkpharmresearch.com. But you would want tight control over heat input (ya'll keep your fingers crossed that I don't become a statistic). Granted you would want the whole contraption to be stout. It may need a heavier wall pipe than you can buy off the shelf - 4" schedule XXS pipe is the thickest "standard" size @5/8". If it needs to be thicker, it would be no-go as the price of pipe goes way up unless you plan to buy a very large quantity.


So I looked up CO2's phase diagram on Wikepedia, gotta love the Internet. Looks like to be solidly in the supercritical zone, you need to operate at 1,500psi and probably about 150deg F. Ok now for the part I've been dreading, I've gotta remember the math. Much too stoned at the moment. Actually, I need to remember where to find the formulas in the ASME pressure vessel code book - major boring stuff.




Here is a couple of CO2 extractors.... Now just to figure how to pack all that stuff into something cheaper and more mobile, seriously, I can't imagine what all that stuff is doing... Probably uses pumps because they are safer than heat.

Man was I stoned when I wrote that last night, sorry lol. Lesson learned (and to be repeated), if you smoke enough of the Tsunami, the THC eventually wins out and I was bombed.

You guys know the Guv's committee just approved pot tourism for us ya? I'm thinkin the demand for product is going to be staggering.... larger scale equipment will be needed. Unfortunately for me, there's an outfit already doing it - Eden Labs. Which you all probably knew all along, but allowed me to stumble my own way to the answer - thanks Here's a pic of one of their large scale operations. This unit even recirculates the CO2. Looks badass. And their bench top model is sweet also. This looks more like something I would have come up with than those laboratory industry grade models in the previous post. I wonder what dudes background was that started this company. Still, always the chance you can build a better mouse trap...

I only used n butane with the tami. I didn't use it much as it was very time consuming. Its was more of my partners gig. Hes out of the picture with the tami. Once i get back on my feet I'll probably buy the 8oz model. The o ring you refer to cant blow out as its in a grove then clamped down with a solid clamp.

My exp with tami was any added heat over 100° oil comes out too dark. The Tami doesn't come with any screens. The inventor recommends steel wool or coffee filters. After dropping all that cash you think they would throw in real screens. I found on a Washington mmj forum that people order lab grade screens from a science supply online.

lvtokerr said:

After dropping all that cash you think they would throw in real screens. I found on a Washington mmj forum that people order lab grade screens from a science supply online.

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Amen to that and thanks for the tip on the screens.

I looked it up and 4" schedule 40 304 SS is good for a working pressure (mawp) of aound 1,300 PSI up to 300deg F, so it should easily be able to handle the CO2 @ supercritical pressure and temps under 100deg F. This is good, because you can buy this pipe off the shelf for $60/ft or so. So it's doable to build an extractor that will reach supercritical point in a pressure vessel and then release this through the extraction column. You would have a sharp drop in pressure across the column, but would still probably work... I wonder how well though. I figure I could build a prototype for under $300. But this wouldn't be something I would distribute... I plan to heat the CO2 in the pressure chamber via a propane weed burner or acetylene rosebud if necessary.... So with flame while watching the pressure gauge, then release it through the column and into a blowdown pot open to atmosphere and see what happens. Lol it will be interesting anyways. On 2nd thought, I'll probably use resistance heating pads and stand behind a 3/4" thick steel plate that I have when I pull the trigger.

Did you see the thread on skunkpharm where he extracts gold wax from ash tray dumpings and roaches? Does it without any fancy steel vessels. More food for thought. I have some black wax want to try washing .

No I haven't seen that - will try to search it out. Thanks.

Are we allowed to link to other sites? http://skunkpharmresearch.com/getting-the-green-and-waxes-out-afterwards/

Bubbagineer,

I was wondering how your progress was going on this? I started the same thing as you a few years ago and have developed a working batch process and have been expanding it and modifying for the past 2 years (for all the people that might comment, I will post a build thread and details here soon once the process is finalized). I would love to bounce some ideas off you about some of these concepts if you would be interested.

Check this out, http://elementfour20.com/our-facility-2/.....this guy does co2 extractions...IMO I think co2 is cheaper, fill up a tank at $7 than buying a 12pk of butane for $40+. I may be wrong but IMO!