COB LED or Samsung QB Panels versus 1000 Watt HPS SE or DE

So I am having a little argument with my Sensei. He says that pro growers use HPS for flower and veg and that LED Is junk.

My question to the clever folks here is will a big Timber Grow Lights with 12 Cobs or 4 to 6 Sumsung QB panels take on a Gavita or something comparable?

Timber about $1099
http://timbergrowlights.com/600-watt-citizen-clu048-4x4-framework/

Or Samsung QB panels using 6 of them in a frame. About $799

My thought is the Timber framework or the Samsung QB can get down to about 18" in flower above the canopy. A double ended or SE HPS 1000 watt to 1200 watt could never get that close unless it has lenses and a fan cooling. These are older hoods and Gavitas don't have tubes to cool with.

The room is about 12 x 18 and the ceiling will be raised to 12 + feet. I think the ability of a COB LED or Samsung QB panels to get down on the canopy and keep the room cooler beats HPS. As you move the light source further away, the lumens or photons decrease rapidly.

So can a 12 COB LED or 6 QB Panels beat a 1000 watt + HPS in Flowering?

http://timbergrowlights.com/600-watt-vero29-v7-4x4-framework/

Is btw better than the CLU048 framework.
Slightly more par watt, and cheaper.

But no, it won't beat a Gavita 1000 (actual 1220) watt double ended.
Not because it isn't more efficient (the LEDs are way more efficient), it's because a Gavita has twice the wattage.

But the 900 watt Vero29 framework or 6 QB at 150 watt each, should beat the Gavita DE though.
http://timbergrowlights.com/900-watt-vero29-v7-5x5-framework/


If you're comparing the 600 watt framework with a single ended 1000 watt HPS like
http://hid.venturelighting.com/LampsDataSheets/HighPressureSodium/23025.pdf

Then it should give similar yields.
The SE HPS, has a few percent more par watt, but will have more reflector losses.

frica said:

http://timbergrowlights.com/600-watt-vero29-v7-4x4-framework/

Is btw better than the CLU048 framework.
Slightly more par watt, and cheaper.

But no, it won't beat a Gavita 1000 (actual 1220) watt double ended.
Not because it isn't more efficient (the LEDs are way more efficient), it's because a Gavita has twice the wattage.

But the 900 watt Vero29 framework or 6 QB at 150 watt each, should beat the Gavita DE though.
http://timbergrowlights.com/900-watt-vero29-v7-5x5-framework/


If you're comparing the 600 watt framework with a single ended 1000 watt HPS like
http://hid.venturelighting.com/LampsDataSheets/HighPressureSodium/23025.pdf

Then it should give similar yields.
The SE HPS, has a few percent more par watt, but will have more reflector losses.

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Good information but I still wonder if a Timber Framework or Samsung QB boards 12 to 16" off the canopy would have an edge over SE or DE HPS that has to be 24" or more due to heat.

6 QB boards on 2 320H drivers would be 1550 ppf. With the better spectrum I'm going to give the quantum boards the nod. Total power draw is 699 watts @ 120 VAC.

Stephenj37826 said:

6 QB boards on 2 320H drivers would be 1550 ppf. With the better spectrum I'm going to give the quantum boards the nod. Total power draw is 699 watts @ 120 VAC.

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Wow. 1550 ppf? That is wild.

ok I am new, very new, and have been researching and a grow light for my medical 4x4, I made the decision on CMH over HPS, Then I was thinking get the CMH and pair it with a set of COB bars on either side

Now I'm starting to see mention of these qb boards, would I be better of with them over a series of cxb3590's, I was thinking 4 or 6 cxb3990's with a set of HLG 320 @ 1400 or 2100 ... I still have questions regarding a cob set up, as why I haven't ordered one
I haven't purchased the CMH yet either, but everything else other then light and environment controller head unit is in hand


the local hydro store still recommends a Gavita 6-750 flex in a 6"6" 4x4 tent
I'm attempting to have the 4x4 tent vent into a 8x10 bedroom, with door open, also have a dehumidifier, into a 750sqft space with a wall mount A/C

thccbdhealth said:

ok I am new, very new, and have been researching and a grow light for my medical 4x4, I made the decision on CMH over HPS, Then I was thinking get the CMH and pair it with a set of COB bars on either side

Now I'm starting to see mention of these qb boards, would I be better of with them over a series of cxb3590's, I was thinking 4 or 6 cxb3990's with a set of HLG 320 @ 1400 or 2100 ... I still have questions regarding a cob set up, as why I haven't ordered one
I haven't purchased the CMH yet either, but everything else other then light and environment controller head unit is in hand

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The guys here are better experts but these boards run way way cooler than HPS and cooler than CMH. I think the QB Boards are the coolest in temp and cooler than COBs. Can you solder?

I have never soldered units to a board, so I don't know If I could melt the board, but I do know how to solder as well as compleating copper water lines

MMJ Dreaming 99 said:

The guys here are better experts but these boards run way way cooler than HPS and cooler than CMH. I think the QB Boards are the coolest in temp and cooler than COBs. Can you solder?

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These have push connectors no soldering needed.

any input as to illumitating a 4x4... I don't have a flowering light so I looking to put my limited cash to best use

thccbdhealth said:

any input as to illumitating a 4x4... I don't have a flowering light so I looking to put my limited cash to best use

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4 QB boards on 2 HLG 240-1050a drivers

MMJ Dreaming 99 said:

So I am having a little argument with my Sensei. He says that pro growers use HPS for flower and veg and that LED Is junk.

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first statement is true but second is false. youre also implying that "pro growers" are using whatever is state-of-the-art as opposed to what they are already invested in, which is erroneous

Check out @Growmau5 vids on youtube. Lots of cobs in a big grow.

CobKits said:

first statement is true but second is false. youre also implying that "pro growers" are using whatever is state-of-the-art as opposed to what they are already invested in, which is erroneous

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Any pro grower who knows what they are doing would start phasing out Gavitas or whatever DE lights they use if LED COB?QB Panels were better if they had common sense. Assuming they are pro and legal they would have already depreciated them out.

Some pro grows "ain't" so pro too. I knew someone who was a degreed botanist working at a pro grow in Boulder. They paid peanuts and had some plants in veg for a year because they had more plants than a system to care for them. Keeping track of hundreds of plants is not easy but don't grow that many if you cannot care for them. Sounds like a typical Boulder attitude.

I trust many people here, including the helpful vendors, and someone like GrowMau5 more than I trust many "pro" growers.....especially arseholes in Boulder. LOL!

There are many guys, including vendors, here that know light spectrum and the math better than lots of pro growers.

MMJ Dreaming 99 said:

Any pro grower who knows what they are doing would start phasing out Gavitas or whatever DE lights they use if LED COB?QB Panels were better if they had common sense. Assuming they are pro and legal they would have already depreciated them out.

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not necessarily. it depends on your ROI which is greatly lessened when youre already invested in hardware, not even considering any downtime.

just because you depreciate something on paper doesnt make the cost of new gear any less formidable

you also made the assumption that most pro growers know what they are doing which is probably iffy. i know a fair amount of pro growers that would be ill suited for a lot of other jobs

CobKits said:

not necessarily. it depends on your ROI which is greatly lessened when youre already invested in hardware, not even considering any downtime.

just because you depreciate something on paper doesnt make the cost of new gear any less formidable

you also made the assumption that most pro growers know what they are doing which is probably iffy. i know a fair amount of pro growers that would be ill suited for a lot of other jobs

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My guess is that some of them think COB LED or now these new QB Panels are new technology and they will stick with double ended or CMH or Plasmas for now. I know a guy who is pretty pro and was big on Plasma. Those CMH bulbs get so hot and bright that they almost plasma.

I need to check my texts but I think he also liked Fluence which is a proprietary LED.

These QB panels are very impressive to me. My feeling is the average person with a bigger than tent grow may be better off QB boards or LED COB because they can get the fixture down on the canopy. The big grows seem to just let the Gavita's it 10 feet above the floor and never adjust the height.

Big Mike's 3 lb a light indoor grow videos done at grows in Nor Cal recently might be worth watching again.

thats still only about 1.2GPW but lets see some links - im sure theres a lot to learn, you dont often hear of 3 per light with HPS

CobKits said:

thats still only about 1.2GPW but lets see some links - im sure theres a lot to learn, you dont often hear of 3 per light with HPS

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Big Mike of Advanced Nutrients - 1 of 5 videos. The grower at the start of the first video claims 3.2 lb per light and keeps his Gavita's about 2.5 feet from the plant. Please note that I am not pimping for Big Mike. I do like how he warns MMJ people of corporate grows and corporate nutes MonSantan and Miracle Grow. Most of the grows he goes to are around Truckee, CA.


I can see why he is called Big Mike. He looks much taller than everyone in the videos. LOL!

seems reasonable.... but these guys never consider the veg wattage to bring 3 foot plants into flower either. the only other person ive heard of getting 3 were also obscene veggers

what would be better suited for a medicinal 4x4
4 QB boards on 2 HLG 240-1050a drivers
or an array of cxb3590's, say maybe 12 on 2 320 HLG @ 1400ma or 2100ma