Coco Based No-till Living Soil Recipe Help??

I couldn't imagine going against the grain and risking a no till bed over $30 worth of peat.

myke said:

I couldn't imagine going against the grain and risking a no till bed over $30 worth of peat.

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I keep telling myself things like this and it adds up and in the end. check my earlier comments. I'm trying to just use the things up that I have. Not trying to spend money where I don't need to. I could get carried away easily.
I havent seen any journals or books or real attempts like this with coco online anywhere. But people say it works. At this point I'm willing to challenge that from a full organic standpoint.

Baja

bajasti said:

I keep telling myself things like this and it adds up and in the end. check my earlier comments. I'm trying to just use the things up that I have. Not trying to spend money where I don't need to. I could get carried away easily.
I havent seen any journals or books or real attempts like this with coco online anywhere. But people say it works. At this point I'm willing to challenge that from a full organic standpoint.

Baja

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Youve been here longer then I have,I remember a few threads of people having problems with this.There was no fixes AFAIK.
I wish u luck,you can always use liquid food for a boost.

bajasti said:

I keep telling myself things like this and it adds up and in the end. check my earlier comments. I'm trying to just use the things up that I have. Not trying to spend money where I don't need to. I could get carried away easily.
I havent seen any journals or books or real attempts like this with coco online anywhere. But people say it works. At this point I'm willing to challenge that from a full organic standpoint.

Baja

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I like that you are kind of going off the beaten path. Hopefully you will keep updating and we can all learn a little. I think your use of bio char should help with retaining nutrients along with the basalt, from what I've read at least.

Again just my two cents and good luck.

Edit: worst case scenario you can just mix this batch up with a future peat based mix and it'll all work out down the road.

After more thinking and adjusting, here is my updated list. Just gathered up my (Raw) Bio-Char. Getting ready to charge it.will take pics.


Bio char charging plan

2.5 gallons bio char
2.5 gallons of either EWC, Compost, Manure, or mixed ratios of all
11 Tablespoons of alfalfa meal
2 Tablespoons Alaskan Hydrolysate fish fert 5-1-1
Water with molasses and let sit for 2 weeks or mix and bubble tea for 24 hours then innocluate biochar for faster end finshed product? 1 week? Then amend in to soil at 10% ratio. Check PH? Looking for anything in between 6.0-7.0 PH to verify finished and ready for use?

Coco based no-till living soil plan/mix

30 Gal 2x2 fabric grow bed

10 Gals of Coco Coir
6 Gals of Black Kow composted cow manure
2 Gals of Malibu Bu's blend compost
1 Gal of locally sourced yard compost
1 Gal quality earthworm castings
3 Gals of Perlite
3 Gals of Black Lava Rock
2 Gals of Hydroton
3.5 Cups of langbenite
3.5 Cups of gypsum
7 Cups of basalt rock dust
~2 Cups of crustacean meal
~2 Cups of kelp meal
~2 Cups of neem/karanja cake mix
~4 Cups milled malted barley
2.5 Gals of charged bio char
~3.5 Oz's of bokashi top dress after mixing the base (about 2 cups)
4 Gals of RO water drench
25 red wigglers
Composted wood and bark mulch

Cover for 2 weeks then spread around cover crop seeds and transplant my babes.

Top dress with Craft blend from BAS when flowering.

Fresh aloe juice from active aloe vera plant mix in with some waterings

Coconut water powder mix in with some waterings.

Molasses every watering to help with RO water, microbes and Coco's weird calcium retention

AACT once mid-flower.

Im hoping this covers it. Wish me luck my peoples.

Baja

loco41 said:

I like that you are kind of going off the beaten path. Hopefully you will keep updating and we can all learn a little. I think your use of bio char should help with retaining nutrients along with the basalt, from what I've read at least.

Again just my two cents and good luck.

Edit: worst case scenario you can just mix this batch up with a future peat based mix and it'll all work out down the road.

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Funny thing is, ill either have two 5 gal pots or three 3 gal pots going next to this coco bed that will be filled with living soil that is peat based.

So I guess Im really going to be able to tell the difference between peat vs coco. I just realized that its happening this way. lol

But the cultivars won't all be the same so there's a small variable.

Baja

What's up with coir and potassium? Does coco release K over time?

And if a coco coir soil will be high in Potassium is it a good idea to use a little less langbienite to keep K in check?

Before you mix that up, I'd hold off, there is a lot off with that mix. Way too much langbeinite among other things. Rather than waste the money on all that stuff, calculate out smaller proportions then have it tested. You are going to be through the roof with some of those #s. You may also have a problem with PH as most living soil mixes base their calcium and and other PH stabilizing agents ( like rock dust) on the fact that their base is peat rather than coco. Nothing worse than ending up with a big batch of unusable media that has you chasing nutrient lockouts the entire grow, many of us have been there before.

Rurumo said:

Before you mix that up, I'd hold off, there is a lot off with that mix. Way too much langbeinite among other things. Rather than waste the money on all that stuff, calculate out smaller proportions then have it tested. You are going to be through the roof with some of those #s. You may also have a problem with PH as most living soil mixes base their calcium and and other PH stabilizing agents ( like rock dust) on the fact that their base is peat rather than coco. Nothing worse than ending up with a big batch of unusable media that has you chasing nutrient lockouts the entire grow, many of us have been there before.

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So your saying make a small batch and check it? I followed BAS recomendations. This is the ratio they recommend for coco. The only thing different between their peat mix is the langbenite vs oyster flour. Oyster flour in the peat, Langbenite in the coco. In those ratios i have listed.

You think thats too much? Good idea on making a small batch first.

Baja

youraveragehorticulturist said:

What's up with coir and potassium? Does coco release K over time?

And if a coco coir soil will be high in Potassium is it a good idea to use a little less langbienite to keep K in check?

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From what I learned, coco holds alot of K and doesnt release it as fast, Theirfore you must add, not subtract. The slow release is what gets you.

I've grown in coco for years witout any issue. But it was using a flood and drain setup with jacks 3 2 1 style.

Baja

You guys are scaring me with the langbenite. Looks like i'm gonna take more time learning before I mix this recipe up. I'll get the Bio-char ready in the mean time.

Thanks peeps!
Baja

I also have everything already. So its not like I'm waiting to buy it all.

Baja

Rurumo said:

Before you mix that up, I'd hold off, there is a lot off with that mix. Way too much langbeinite among other things. Rather than waste the money on all that stuff, calculate out smaller proportions then have it tested. You are going to be through the roof with some of those #s. You may also have a problem with PH as most living soil mixes base their calcium and and other PH stabilizing agents ( like rock dust) on the fact that their base is peat rather than coco. Nothing worse than ending up with a big batch of unusable media that has you chasing nutrient lockouts the entire grow, many of us have been there before.

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This is what I found on their site. Looks like my math is wrong. You guys are right. Need to use less Langbenite. I'm making adjustsment to the recipe now.

Thanks a bunch for bringing this to my attention. This is why I'm here.

Love
Baja

From their site:

The Recipe:
This kit will balance the Ph, add Calcium, help make other nutrients available and overall add trace minerals to your soil.

1. 2 Parts BuildASoil Basalt - Trace Minerals and High Paramagnetic Energy
2. 1 Part Gypsum - Locally Mined in Colorado - Calcium and Sulfur
3. 2 Tablespoons Sul-Po-Mag per CF also known as langbeinite - Has Sulfur, Potassium and Mag
4. Use at 4 Cups Per Cubic Foot

bajasti said:

From what I learned, coco holds alot of K and doesnt release it as fast, Theirfore you must add, not subtract. The slow release is what gets you.

I've grown in coco for years witout any issue. But it was using a flood and drain setup with jacks 3 2 1 style.

Baja

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normally special cocos ferts have less K then others.
to my understanding cocos holds a lot K allready (or worse, NaCl), when there is a higher concentration of molecules with 2 charges like Mg or Ca, Mg or Ca are replacing the K or NaCl which gets released then.

cobshopgrow said:

normally special cocos ferts have less K then others.
to my understanding cocos holds a lot K allready (or worse, NaCl), when there is a higher concentration of molecules with 2 charges like Mg or Ca, Mg or Ca are replacing the K or NaCl which gets released then.

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So you're saying more Mg and Ca with less K gives the balance in coco. Interesting. Well I've adjusted the langbeinite to 8 tablespoons. Heres the updated list:

Bio char charging plan

2.5 gallons bio char
2.5 gallons of either EWC, Compost, Manure, or mixed ratios of all
11 Tablespoons of alfalfa meal
2 Tablespoons Alaskan Hydrolysate fish fert 5-1-1

Water with molasses and let sit for 2 weeks or mix and bubble tea for 24 hours then innocluate biochar for faster end finshed product? 1 week? Then amend in to soil at 10% ratio. Check PH? Looking for anything in between 6.0-7.0 PH to verify finished and ready for use?

Coco based no-till living soil plan/mix

30 Gal 2x2 fabric grow bed
10 Gals of Coco Coir
6 Gals of Black Kow composted cow manure
2 Gals of Malibu Bu's blend compost
2 Gal quality earthworm castings
3 Gals of Perlite
4 Gals of Black Lava Rock
2 Gals of Hydroton
8 Tbsp. of langbeinite
3.5 Cups of gypsum
7 Cups of basalt rock dust
~2 Cups of crustacean meal
~2 Cups of kelp meal
~2 Cups of neem/karanja cake mix
~4 Cups milled malted barley
2.5 Gals of charged bio char
~3.5 Oz's of bokashi top dress after mixing the base (about 2 cups)
2 Gals of RO water drench
20 Red wigglers
5 Euro nightcrawlers
Composted wood and bark mulch

Cover for 2 weeks then spread around cover crop seeds, mulch, then transplant my babes.

Drop in the worms.

Top dress with Craft blend from BAS when flowering.

Fresh aloe juice from active aloe vera plant mix in with some waterings

Coconut water powder mix in with some waterings.

Molasses every watering to help with RO water, microbes and Coco's weird calcium retention

AACT once mid-flower

I have some General organics ancient forest humus laying around. Should I add this in here somewhere?

Baja

Bio-Char conditioning. I sprinkled alil bokashi in there also..

Compost tea that I making for the char with EWC, chicken manure, and alil bu's blend compost.

getting ready to put the bed together pics coming?

Baja

see here.
"
Why You Need to Buffer Coco Coir
There are cation exchange sites in coco that will interfere with nutrition until they are buffered. The cation exchange sites in coco naturally come loaded with sodium (Na) and potassium (K) cations. However, the Na and the K are only weakly held to the exchange sites. In the presence of calcium (Ca) or magnesium (Mg), the sites will release their Na or K cations and lock onto the Ca or Mg. These processes are known as “cation exchanges”.

Buffering coco is accomplished by soaking it in Ca and Mg. This allows the cation exchanges to take place prior to adding plants. Simply soak your coco in a solution of Cal/Mag water and the exchange sites will release their K and Na cations and lock onto the Ca and Mg. When the cation exchange sites bond with Ca and Mg rather than Na and K, it is “buffered”. The bonds that hold the Ca and Mg to the sites are very strong and cation exchange will largely stop. This means that all of the nutrients that you add to the water will be available to the plant at the ratios that you provide them.

"
from cocosforcannabis.com

cobshopgrow said:

see here.
"
Why You Need to Buffer Coco Coir
There are cation exchange sites in coco that will interfere with nutrition until they are buffered. The cation exchange sites in coco naturally come loaded with sodium (Na) and potassium (K) cations. However, the Na and the K are only weakly held to the exchange sites. In the presence of calcium (Ca) or magnesium (Mg), the sites will release their Na or K cations and lock onto the Ca or Mg. These processes are known as “cation exchanges”.

Buffering coco is accomplished by soaking it in Ca and Mg. This allows the cation exchanges to take place prior to adding plants. Simply soak your coco in a solution of Cal/Mag water and the exchange sites will release their K and Na cations and lock onto the Ca and Mg. When the cation exchange sites bond with Ca and Mg rather than Na and K, it is “buffered”. The bonds that hold the Ca and Mg to the sites are very strong and cation exchange will largely stop. This means that all of the nutrients that you add to the water will be available to the plant at the ratios that you provide them.

"
from cocosforcannabis.com

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How would one buffer coco before using in organic living soil build?

I have cal mag but am i really gonna soak my coco in bottled nutrient solution before running it in a no till?

I'm thinking just put everything together and let nature do its thing for 2 weeks to a month before testing it and planting in it?

Baja

valid question i cant really answer, at least not how to do it propper with organics.
i do know that i could buy organic cocos soil which is buffered with dolomite lime and bentonite plus organic fertilizer.
no clue if this soil would grow me weed well, really no idea, they sell a lot, while it could indicate that it MAYBE, i work.
some else will know better then me, i normally only buffer cocos with salts.

Much better with less langbeinite, just an fyi, you will probably still test too high for K, but it probably won't be a problem. It's a good idea to test your soil just so you know what might be too high (so you can watch for lockouts) or what might be too low. Coots type mixes almost always test too high for K and low in micronutrients. I checked your list and are you using oyster flour or something else to buffer the soil? My experience is that living soils (that we make ourselves, not like in our backyards lol) tend to acidify quite fast due to the heavy bacterial action. This tends not to matter if you have a big enough mass of it, but in smaller pots it can be a problem. Also, one thing to remember is that these Coots type mixes tend to lack micronutrients-pretty much all of them. So I would dose it a couple of times with any good micronutrient pack, or something like Bio Ag TM-7. You want to give it to them a couple of weeks before you flip to 12/12 and then a week after. Micronutrient deficiencies tend to rear their heads during a good stretch. Good luck! These living soils are fun but if you have problems with a new mix (usually starting in stretch) it's very hard to chase the problem down-on the other hand, if you get lucky with your mix, you'll have it for quite some time, and they make really tasty buds.