convince me led is worth it.

Budies 101 said:

So I just built a 300watt PCB lm561c s6 chip light (7 total) for about 260$ a light... Why does yours cost so much? From my understanding the 561c not over driven is better than a 3590 cree.

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I posted the shopping cart picture with the costs listed

I opted for the 1825 chips

if I got the smaller heat sinks and less expensive chips the cost would have come down a bit

my estimate also includes $40 shipping and the cost of the metal and other supplies from lowes/homedepot and it came in just under $400 TOTAL

the parts from cobkits alone not including shipping was $340 +/-
i bought the higher end chips and larger heat sinks to increase efficiency,
it can be done for less

im4satori said:

I read the 1st page and the last page

so I apologize if ive missed comments

I cant personally speak to flowering or hps comparisons yet...but for veg

I just set up a cobb build using the citi 1825 cobs and a 240watt driver and ran it side by side with a 400 watt T5 (new bulbs)during veg

the cobb light at 150watts out performed the T5 at 400 watts in the same space

the plants under the cob had less stretch, more nodes, thicker stems and bigger fan leaves

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I haven't finished the run yet but 200 watts of 1212 citizen looks to be on par with my 432 watt t5. Not quite but close.

I'm also running a unit farm with cree and osram diodes. Just the veg switch is out performing my 2 ft 6 bulb t5.

im4satori said:

yes per sq ft

but running 50 watts per sq ft of led would be close to running 75 watts hps per sq ft

running led @ 35 watts per sq ft would be close to 50 watts hps

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Budley Doright said:

Your right about old tech as I built my first 400 about 35 years ago lol. Still got it lol.

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I run 37.5W/ft² of COB LED at 56% efficiency and it's plenty!

Notice I include the efficiency value of the wattage I'm running my chips at, because this is the hidden variable that's tripping everyone up. A chip run at full power is much less efficient than the same one run at half or a quarter of its rated maximum.

50W/ft² is only for lighting that's 40% efficient.

30W/ft² is plenty if your chips are running at 65% efficiency- but you'll need a lot more chips, easily 4 times as many if not more. That's where the extra cost comes from for super high efficiency rigs.

These represent what I'd consider the reasonable extremes of LED at the current state of the technology.

High efficiency rigs make more sense the higher the cost of power, so Hawaiians who pay 55¢/kWh would get the most benefit from them.

At the other end of the scale, the only benefit to a 40% efficient rig over HID is spectrum, so I'd say it's a pointless exercise.

I chose to buy twice the chips to increase the efficiency from 44% to 56%, and then take advantage of temperature droop for a few extra points with liquid cooling. I feel I got most of the efficiency gains for the least additional cost.

I hope this helps!

@Rahz , @CobKits , @Stephenj37826 please correct any errors I may have made here and feel free to come in with your own thoughts.

Dr.Nick Riviera said:

I have gotten tons of info from this thread, I have identified several more Highly invested butthurt LED fanboys.

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And the rest went right over your head, that much is clear =)

Before I post this I'm gonna go down stairs and take 3 pics of my lights over this king louis xiii. Most the plants have been taken out in the last few days this one is finishing up. I have some round colored cloth 2-wire comming and I'll move my drivers away from the lights but that will take a few days to get here still, for now it's a lil ghetto.



Thinner than a pen, 600watts made for growing in pallet racks so that I can grow 2x as much as an HPS in the same footprint with only slightly more watts when the room is full. Oh and your plants don't look like they are swimming in piss =)

For all those who switch back to HID during winter for the extra heat, might I suggest you consider using more insulation instead. You'll save money on power and you won't be giving up spectrum benefits.

As it is, all you're doing is cleverly disguising your space heater as a light bulb, lol

@Dr.Nick Riviera,

You're just another Yodaweed. Just another dimwit without any mates/life/knowledge. You spend all of your time in here spouting bullshit because you crave attention, ANY kind of attention. Its really sad.

Even if you were right (lol), how does someone elses growing technique affect you so badly you have to waste your life being a prick in a forum full of people you dont know ? why would anyone do that

Nobody in their right mind spends all of their time repeatedly being an idiot surrounded by people he's trying to annoy - i suggest you get some help, like serious mental help.

Nobody here cares what you think because nothing you say is worth a piss.

I feel sorry for you, bro...you're lonely and bored.

bless

HydroRed said:

As a year round grower now, I still revert back to my HPS in the winter since I rely on the heat from them (like @Budley Doright mentions). In the summer....not so much, which is why I built COB lights. Utilizing both HPS and COB for what my needs are & to fulfill the needs of my rooms. Since building the COB lights almost 2 yrs ago and appropriating the HID's for cooler temps/winter growing, my costs have gone down significantly on my summer electric bills and quality and weight have not suffered. The initial investment stings a little compared to HPS, but after seeing the reduction in utility bills over the summer months due to less wattage/heat/hvac usage I feel 100% justified in my build and know that the ROI is there within a couple years time due to the huge savings in the summer months. Considering I should get 6+ years from my led build, it will pay for itself and then some before I even have to think about replacing any cobs or drivers. Its all about making it work for YOUR situation.

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How's it going red? Long time no see.

lukio said:

@Dr.Nick Riviera,

You're just another Yodaweed. Just another dimwit without any mates/life/knowledge. You spend all of your time in here spouting bullshit because you crave attention, ANY kind of attention. Its really sad.

Even if you were right (lol), how does someone elses growing technique affect you so badly you have to waste your life being a prick in a forum full of people you dont know ? why would anyone do that

Nobody in their right mind spends all of their time repeatedly being an idiot surrounded by people he's trying to annoy - i suggest you get some help, like serious mental help.

Nobody here cares what you think because nothing you say is worth a piss.

I feel sorry for you, bro...you're lonely and bored.

bless

Click to expand...

How can I be bored, when I have you dim wits to play with?

Dr.Nick Riviera said:

How can I be bored, when I have you dim wits to play with?

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It is a sad commentary on your character that you think this is actually a productive use of your time.

ttystikk said:

I run 37.5W/ft² of COB LED at 56% efficiency and it's plenty!

Notice I include the efficiency value of the wattage I'm running my chips at, because this is the hidden variable that's tripping everyone up. A chip run at full power is much less efficient than the same one run at half or a quarter of its rated maximum.

Click to expand...

or at least the current. not everyone can calc efficiency but its easy to say if youre running your chips at xx watts and xx currents

a citi 1212 is a lot different at 25W vs 100W
a citi 1825 is a lot different at 50w vs 300W

as for the trolls, ignore list works wonders as long as people arent constantly giving them attention and posting about them

ttystikk said:

It is a sad commentary on your character that you think this is actually a productive use of your time.

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shut up narc

Dr.Nick Riviera said:

shut up narc

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Proof positive that you have nothing of value to add.

CobKits said:

as for the trolls, ignore list works wonders as long as people arent constantly giving them attention and posting about them

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I think I'll do that, he's proven to be useless on the led forums.

Budies 101 said:

And the rest went right over your head, that much is clear =)

Before I post this I'm gonna go down stairs and take 3 pics of my lights over this king louis xiii. Most the plants have been taken out in the last few days this one is finishing up. I have some round colored cloth 2-wire comming and I'll move my drivers away from the lights but that will take a few days to get here still, for now it's a lil ghetto.

View attachment 4011429 View attachment 4011431 View attachment 4011432

Thinner than a pen, 600watts made for growing in pallet racks so that I can grow 2x as much as an HPS in the same footprint with only slightly more watts when the room is full. Oh and your plants don't look like they are swimming in piss =)

Click to expand...

get some of those installation foam walls from home-depot; they are cheap and light and you can just set them around your trellis boarder. you could scavenge light back.

SoOLED said:

get some of those installation foam walls from home-depot; they are cheap and light and you can just set them around your trellis boarder. you could scavenge light back.

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Thanks.

I'm headed towards doing rec grows here soon so I'll be out of that space and will be looking at maximizing things like you have suggested out there. I don't want to dump $$ in two places as it just loses it's value once I'm move the grow out. I do appreciate the advice tho.

ttystikk said:

For all those who switch back to HID during winter for the extra heat, might I suggest you consider using more insulation instead. You'll save money on power and you won't be giving up spectrum benefits.

As it is, all you're doing is cleverly disguising your space heater as a light bulb, lol

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What would you suggest? Styrofoam?

whitebb2727 said:

How's it going red? Long time no see.

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I make myself a bit more scarce these days lol. Too much negativity around these parts anymore. I browse far more than I post. How you been brother?

ttystikk said:

For all those who switch back to HID during winter for the extra heat, might I suggest you consider using more insulation instead. You'll save money on power and you won't be giving up spectrum benefits.

As it is, all you're doing is cleverly disguising your space heater as a light bulb, lol

Click to expand...

Here in MI, our winters are not very forgiving with temps that reach in the negative degrees in F. I have my room fully 100% finished & insulated top to bottom along with panda film covering everything but the floor. All joints/overlaps and seams from wall to floor etc are stapled and sealed with gorilla glue tape. Not sure I can insulate much more than that? Just 1 tiny space heater is 1500W plus the wattage from my cob lights which would equal out to far more than the (2) 1KW HPS. Wouldnt it make more sense to use the heat already provided by the HID's vs adding another 1500W of heater to the equation just to be able to run the cobs in the winter? My tiny 1500W heater provides one element -heat. My HID provide both light and heat from the same 1000W used. I run a closed room in the summer to maintain low cost HVAC. Then in winter, I change it over with a simple vent cap to an exhaust controlled room and cool it with the free outside temps. In the past year I went from 12K btu AC unit that cycled 24/7 to a old ass 5K unit that hardly turns on now. There's no "cleverly disguising" my monthly electric bills.

HydroRed said:

I make myself a bit more scarce these days lol. Too much negativity around these parts anymore. I browse far more than I post. How you been brother?


Here in MI, our winters are not very forgiving with temps that reach in the negative degrees in F. I have my room fully 100% finished & insulated top to bottom along with panda film covering everything but the floor. All joints/overlaps and seams from wall to floor etc are stapled and sealed with gorilla glue tape. Not sure I can insulate much more than that? Just 1 tiny space heater is 1500W plus the wattage from my cob lights which would equal out to far more than the (2) 1KW HPS. Wouldnt it make more sense to use the heat already provided by the HID's vs adding another 1500W of heater to the equation just to be able to run the cobs in the winter? My tiny 1500W heater provides one element -heat. My HID provide both light and heat from the same 1000W used. I run a closed room in the summer to maintain low cost HVAC. Then in winter, I change it over with a simple vent cap to an exhaust controlled room and cool it with the free outside temps. In the past year I went from 12K btu AC unit that cycled 24/7 to a old ass 5K unit that hardly turns on now. There's no "cleverly disguising" my monthly electric bills.
View attachment 4011476 View attachment 4011477

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I'm doing good. I'm running led now. Thinking of still using a little bit of t5 with the cobs I'm running.

whitebb2727 said:

I'm doing good. I'm running led now. Thinking of still using a little bit of t5 with the cobs I'm running.

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I think it was you that suggested the UVA/B with the HPS....great advice both for HID and LED supplement. How long you been running the led's? This in the oak cab?