Cooltubes or open Reflectors ???

oxfordbp

Member
thanks, i understand passive intakes, however like you suggested in a tent setup running co2 its pointless, also, need to keep in mind without some sort of ventilation internally, i cant remove odour, i need a centrifigal fan internally to scrub the air inside tent. It seems that 2 ventilation systems would be required.
Keep in mind not everyone uses Co2 and still grow amazing medication. Although, it is possible in a tent situation with the correct timers and setup. As in lights off = no added heat, fans off, Co2 generator on for whatever time limit, then off, and fans on, blah blah blah! lol ITS POSSIBLE!! ;) just much harder...

Anyway... in the same situation I stated above all you would need to do is add a carbon scrubber to the end of the cool tube! Problem solved!! If you did that you would need to get a larger fan because of the increase in resistance.
 

SwiftGrow

Active Member
I agree that a Cooltube is the way to go since you can keep it close to the plants you lose less light. I run 2 600w cooltubes and they run very cool even cool to the touch in some areas and its not hot enough anywhere that i cannt hold my hand on it. I wanted the fancier Daystar A/C or something like that and my friend talked me into cooltubes and now Im glad he did because they are easy to install, deal with and clean.
 

lowerarchy

Active Member
If you are concerned about light dispersal, then maybe you should consider a conventional reflective hood but with glass enclosing it. They basically work like a CoolTube. The heat is trapped inside the hood and with adequate ventilation through the hood your grow area remains cool.
I've got three of those running side-by-side with three cooltubes set up with parabolic reflectors. I wish I hadn't bothered with the hoods - they have an intense hotspot right in the middle and I have to keep them 18" to 24" above the canopy in the middle of my tray to avoid bleaching the chlorophyll/burning. Cooltubes, don't have this problem that I've found, even though they take 6" duct while my hoods take 8" duct, so you'd think they'd be cooler. The tubes are more efficient to move air through - I can keep them 8" to 12" above the canopy no problem.

Just sayin'. If you need aircooling cooltubes are superior even when you figure the added expense of getting a suitable reflector for them.
 

Papaoscartango

Active Member
Is anyone concerned about radiation & ultra violet light breaking down the THC. Seems if you get the bulbs that close it would have some effect. My private reserve almost always comes from mid level buds, as I find them to be the tastiest & most potent.
 

Brick Top

New Member
Is anyone concerned about radiation & ultra violet light breaking down the THC. Seems if you get the bulbs that close it would have some effect. My private reserve almost always comes from mid level buds, as I find them to be the tastiest & most potent.
You are evidently talking about while in flower and HPS lights don't produce any UV-B rays at all. But UV-B rays are known to increase THC production so UV-B rays are not something undesirable to have. If you add UV-B rays to your flowering lighting the result will be increases resin and THC production.


Inside the Trichome

THC and other cannabinoids are produced in only one place on the cannabis plant: inside the heads of the trichomes. How it happens: Organelles produced by the plant called Vacuoles – which contain phenols, a chemical compound similar to alcohol [pictured at right in blue], and another type of organelle called plastids – containing hydrocarbons called terpenes [red], make their way up the trichome stalk [green] and combine inside the secretory cavity into a fibrous mat [yellow]. This concentrated mat is hit by UV-B light waves, causing the creation of cannabinoids. Since all of the psychoactive ingredients are produced inside the trichome, these tiny resin hairs have long been sought after by hash and oil makers and can be separated from the plant and harvested in a variety of ways





Recent Swiss trials in outdoor plots of clones grown at different altitudes have shown that there is correlation between higher altitude and increased potency There are more UVB rays at high altitude.


An elaboration on the phytochemical process that makes THC
permalink
The resin exuded by the glandular trichome forms a sphere that encases the head cells.

When the resin spheres are separated from the dried plant material by electrostatic attraction and placed on a microscope slide illuminated with a 100W incandescent bulb, they appear very dark when observed through a 300X microscope. Since orange, red, and infrared are the component wavelengths of incandescent light, and since the absorption of light makes an object dark or opaque to the frequency of the incoming wave, one can conclude that these wavelengths are probably not directly involved in energizing the cannabinoid pathway.

However, the resin sphere is transparent to ultraviolet radiation.

The author found through trial and error that only one glandular
trichome exhibits the phytochemical process that will produce the amount of THC associated with pain relief, appetite stimulation and anti-nausea; euphoria and hallucinations are side-effects, however. This trichome is triggered into growth by either of the two ways that the floral bract is turned into fruit.

Of all the ways that optics are involved in the phytochemical production of THC, the most interesting has to be how the head cells and cannabinoid molecules are tremendously magnified by the resin sphere. These and other facts are curiously absent from the literature. The footnotes update the literature to include electrostatic separation of the resin sphere from the dried plant material and marijuana parthenocarpy.


(1) "For all spheres, a ray drawn perpendicular to the sphere's surface will intersect the center of the sphere, no matter what spot on the surface is picked, and the magnifying power(a) of a glass sphere is greater the smaller its size. A sphere of glass can also bring light that is heading to a focus behind it to a point within it, with freedom from two aberrations, spherial aberration and coma, but not from chromatic aberration. Chromatic aberration results when different wavelengths are focused on different planes and is the most difficult of the aberrations to correct. The human eye lens also exhibits chromatic aberration, but a yellow pigment(b) called the macula lutea in the fovea, an area at the rear of the eyeball, corrects this problem by the way it absorbs blue light."

(a)"The formula to calculate the magnifying power of a sphere is l=333/d, where l is the magnifying power and d is the diameter of the sphere expressed in mm."

(b)Interestingly, the resin exuded by drug-type flowering female marijuana plants has a yellow tint. Could this pigment work to correct chromatic aberration in the resin sphere like the macula lutea does in the fovea for the eyeball?

(2) Quoting from the Mahlberg and Kim study of hemp(a) "THC accumulated in abundance in the secretory cavity where it was associated with the following: cell walls, surface feature of secretory vesicles, fibrillar material released from disc cell wall, and cuticle. It was not associated with the content of the secretory vesicles."

The resin spheres contain the THC. It is not contained in the leaf or floral bract. After the resin spheres are dissolved in solvent or dislodged by electrostatic attraction, and a microscopic examination of the leaf or floral bract has revealed that only the glandular trichomes' stalks remain, no effect will be felt after smoking the dried plant material from which the resin spheres have been removed.

(3) The electrostatic collection of the resin spheres from dried marijuana plants with plenty of ripe seeds has been for hundreds of years the method indigenous people of North Africa and Lebanon have used to make hashish. Obtain a round metal can 8" or so in diameter x 3" or so in depth (the kind that cookies come in) with a smooth lid. Obtain 2 ounces of dried marijuana with plenty of ripe seeds in the tops. To remove the seeds and stems, sift the marijuana tops through a 10-hole-to-the-inch wire kitchen strainer into the can. Close the can with the lid and vigorously shake the closed can three or four times. This gives the resin spheres an excess negative charge. Let the can sit for a moment and then remove the lid. Opposites attract. The negative-charged resin spheres have been attracted to the metal surface of the can and lid which has a positive charge. Take a matchbook cover or credit card and draw the edge across the surface of the lid. Note the collected powder. Observed under 300X magnification, the collected powder from this "shake" is composed of resin spheres with an occasional non-glandular trichome. As the marijuana is shaken again and again, and more of the yellow resin spheres are removed from the plant material, the collected powder gradually becomes green-colored as the number of non-glandular trichomes increases in the collected powder. The greener the powder, the less the effect.

(4) "Cannabinoids represent a dimer consisting of a terpene and a phenol component. Cannabigerol (CBG) is the first component of the pathway. It undergoes chemical change to form either cannabichromene (CBC), or cannabidiol (CBD). Delta 9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) is derived from CBD."

(5) "Pate (1983) indicated that in areas of high ultraviolet radiation exposure, the UVB (280-320 nm) absorption properties of THC may have conferred an evolutionary advantage to Cannabis capable of greater production of this compound from biogenetic precursor CBD. The extent to which this production is also influenced by environmental UVB has also been experimentally determined by Lydon et al. (1987)."

The writer's own experience allow for a more specific conclusion: If the UVB photon is missing from the light stream(a), or the intensity as expressed in µW/cm2 falls below a certain level(b), the phytochemical process will not be completely energized with only UVA photons which are more penetrating but less energetic, and the harvested resin spheres will have mostly precursor compounds and not fully realized THC(c).
 

TruenoAE86coupe

Moderator
This really depends on your set up, i run a single 1000 watt in a room that is about 7x7x6.5 and currently have a batwing reflector, i struggle to keep my temps below 85. I believe that with an air cooled hood i could pull 5 degrees out of the room, and therefore drop my light a fair amount closer. My choice however is an air-cooled hood not a cool tube as i do not like the reflectors on the cool tubes. So the way i see it by switching my grow to an air cooled hood i will drop temps to a more manageable 80 and put the light closer, therefore it is a win win. In other situations i could see it being an issue.
Why would you need 2 sets of ventilation? If you take and put a carbon filter-hood-duct-fan-out you can exhaust the heat of the room through the hoods too. Just intake room temp air and leave your exhaust on 24/7, less chance of smell loss that way too.
That is of course just my opinion and when i actually come up with the money for an air cooled hood i will make a post on the changes.
 

tsky

Active Member
you might loose 5-10% because of the glass however you loose much more by having the light alot higher up..
plus id rather have air-cooled - cheap to run vs. AC - more expensive to buy and run
 

Brick Top

New Member
My choice however is an air-cooled hood not a cool tube as i do not like the reflectors on the cool tubes.
I won't say that CoolTubes have the best reflectors but then sometimes their size and shape make them the best choice for some people. I have never tried one but I have read that the Euro Reflector, basically a different design of a CoolTube, something between a CoolTube and a regular glass enclosed light/reflective hood combination, has better reflection ... but if someone has the room for a large glass enclosed air cooled reflective hood I would say that would be the better way to go.


Close Window Euro Reflector

This 6" INLINE REFLECTOR is the best choice to make if one desires to have an air cooled grow light system. Why exchange all the air in your grow-room when you can remove only the air from the reflector - which is the source of the heat!
 

lowerarchy

Active Member
For anyone considering aircooling under glass vs. any other kind of cooling, the main consideration isn't how much radiation is lost in the glass, but how efficient you can make the cooling setup. Lumens lost can easily be countered by dropping your light, but you need a good setup - straight ductwork, correctly sized fans, and a ∆T that'll make it worth running the hoods/tubes. If you're pulling air on the cold side that's only two or three degrees different than your room tems the benefits get a little hazy. If you're pulling in 5°C and exhausting 18°C you're well ahead of the game, but if you're pulling 20°C and exhausting 22°C you might want to get the light meter out and see if it's actually worth your time.

That said, I haven't done this but I'd like to set up a 12" canfan on some 6" cooltubes and see if I can't overwhelm crappy ductwork and a warm-ish air supply with sheer velocity going through the tubes. Haven't needed to do that yet but I'll try some warm springtime, I'm sure...
 

Papaoscartango

Active Member
Good stuff Brick! So if I could incorperate a shorter more energetic wave length I would gain an advantage. And the higher frequency wave bouncing off my white walls may be why I tend to gravitate toward the middle buds.
It couldn't be my imagination......right?......guys....... Man if I add anything else that releases energy into my cab it will ruin the setup & I'm not in a position to retool. Any thoughts on switching to my Cool Delux, blue, bulb at some point during flower?
 

Brick Top

New Member
Good stuff Brick! So if I could incorperate a shorter more energetic wave length I would gain an advantage. And the higher frequency wave bouncing off my white walls may be why I tend to gravitate toward the middle buds.
It couldn't be my imagination......right?......guys....... Man if I add anything else that releases energy into my cab it will ruin the setup & I'm not in a position to retool. Any thoughts on switching to my Cool Delux, blue, bulb at some point during flower?

There are numerous lights for aquariums with reptiles in them that put off a good deal of UV-B rays. Do a Google search and find one with the highest amount of UV-B. People use those to add to their HPS lighting during flower.
 

chrono

Active Member
This really depends on your set up, i run a single 1000 watt in a room that is about 7x7x6.5 and currently have a batwing reflector, i struggle to keep my temps below 85. I believe that with an air cooled hood i could pull 5 degrees out of the room, and therefore drop my light a fair amount closer. My choice however is an air-cooled hood not a cool tube as i do not like the reflectors on the cool tubes. So the way i see it by switching my grow to an air cooled hood i will drop temps to a more manageable 80 and put the light closer, therefore it is a win win. In other situations i could see it being an issue.
Why would you need 2 sets of ventilation? If you take and put a carbon filter-hood-duct-fan-out you can exhaust the heat of the room through the hoods too. Just intake room temp air and leave your exhaust on 24/7, less chance of smell loss that way too.
That is of course just my opinion and when i actually come up with the money for an air cooled hood i will make a post on the changes.
i thought this also about venting the internal air through filter-hood-out, however if internal temp is up, im drawing warm air over lamps which in turn would serve no purpose, please correct me if im wrong, i havent run cooltubes before and this is why im curious about others experience keeping in mind im a tent grower.

Brick Top, your a wealth of knowledge man, thanks, appreciate you dropping in to post, cheers man.
 

Papaoscartango

Active Member
Hey Chrono,
When I built my new cabinet, 2'x4'x8', I was going to wedge in an air cooled hood. Then my guy steered me to something I thought looked like a cheap pile......the Adjust-A-Wing. She's compact, light & nimble & 95% reflective.
I only kill what I can smoke so the setup is working great for me. Shit man with the technology today......any way you go your plants are gonna get all swolled up like a tic!
 

Brick Top

New Member
Hey Chrono,
When I built my new cabinet, 2'x4'x8', I was going to wedge in an air cooled hood. Then my guy steered me to something I thought looked like a cheap pile......the Adjust-A-Wing. She's compact, light & nimble & 95% reflective.
I only kill what I can smoke so the setup is working great for me. Shit man with the technology today......any way you go your plants are gonna get all swolled up like a tic!

Basically it's an adjustable Batwing reflector. I made a somewhat similar, but crude, reflective hood out of two Batwing reflective hoods that I had a good number of years back that were leftover from two cheap 250-watt grow lights. I attached the two together along the edges with nuts and bolts that went into slots I cut in each hood so it could be narrowed or widened where they connected and with them being somewhat flexible I drilled holes in the bottom/lower corners and I used threaded rod with a nut on both sides of the hood so when I turned them the hood would spread wider or pull in narrower.

I could adjust it so it was just narrower than the double row of 5-gallon pots I was using and used it for early veg, for as long as the sides of the hood would go all the way down to the bottom of the plants without the tops being too close to the bulb and then switched to the other hood I had at the time once the plants 'outgrew' my Rube Goldberg hood.

With the reflective walls being far enough away from the plants and as low as the light would be hung I figured I would get little reflective light on my plants so the idea popped into my head to made a hood that basically enclosed the plants and would have a reflective surface very close to the plants.

I had to keep a fan blowing the length of the hood so I did not have heat issues and I could not use it all that long because the plants did grow too close to the bulb faster than I anticipated, but at the time I thought it was a half decent idea and for the length of time it could be used it seemed to work rather well, especially given the low quality of the Batwing reflectors and the crudeness of my design.
 

chrono

Active Member
Hey Chrono,
When I built my new cabinet, 2'x4'x8', I was going to wedge in an air cooled hood. Then my guy steered me to something I thought looked like a cheap pile......the Adjust-A-Wing. She's compact, light & nimble & 95% reflective.
I only kill what I can smoke so the setup is working great for me. Shit man with the technology today......any way you go your plants are gonna get all swolled up like a tic!
Thats exactly what i run right now, 2 x 600w hps with lumatek ballasts and large adjust-a-wing reflectors.
 
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