Coot LOS, Rev TLO, SubCool SuperSoil, BioCanna: Side By Side

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
Clackmas Coot’s Living Organic Soil
Malibu BioDynamic Compost
Premier Spagnum Peat Moss
Rice Hulls
Lava Rock
Pumice
BAS Crustacean Meal
BAS Bassalt
BAS Kelp Meal
BAS Gypsum
BAS Oyster Flour
NeemSource Neem and Karanja Cake
Cover Cropped and Mulched With Barley Straw

Strain: Seedsman Gelat.O.G 30 days from Germination
I got my money on this one, it don't have bone meal or rock phosphate. Everytime that I get my soil tested, I have excess P and that is without P inputs. The only thing that might need to be addressed is micronutrients.
 
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guhman2002

Well-Known Member
Do you plan to follow his grow method, with the use of layers and fertiliser spikes? Really keen to understand if his method does indeed allow you to use less medium and get the same results as someone using a 15gl+ pot
I’m going to do my best to follow each routine as it’s written, but it’s going to be hard to let a plant hurt if I know I can fix it, so I’m not sure what’s going to happen yet LOL
Although I don’t believe the science, the TLO pot is layered.... and I have everything on hand to do the spikes/teas
 

guhman2002

Well-Known Member
I got my money on this one, it don't have bone meal or rock phosphate. Everytime that I get my soil tested, I have excess P and that is without P inputs. The only thing that might need to be addressed is that micronutrients.
I got a whole shelf of top dresses / amendments for the micros as it goes. I run a modern version of “Blue’s” watering schedule that has proven pretty stout.
And my money is with your money, but I gotta curb my curiosity lol
 

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
I got a whole shelf of top dresses / amendments for the micros as it goes. I run a modern version of “Blue’s” watering schedule that has proven pretty stout.
And my money is with your money, but I gotta curb my curiosity lol
I'm not knocking you for doing this! Anyways, I've tried all of the inputs for micronutrients and I found that they are all lacking in Manganese and sometimes zinc or boron. I kept using more and more kelp and I ran into sodium issues, so I started upping the rock dust and I could never fix Manganese issues. The problem with running high P inputs is iron lockout. Plus, excess P is supposed to hinder myco growth and that is whole purpose of Clackamas Coots's recipe, low phosphorus. Back in 2015, I started testing my compost and I found that it was always high in P, so I got very interested in what Clackamas was trying to tell us.

You seem cool, so I'm going to let you in on my latest findings. I'm always screwing up, but I find the answers to my problems usually and just keep trucking. I was looking for ways to raise my micronutrient levels and I saw that everyone kept saying "Chelate your micronutrients" but I kept running into problems after using it. I found this little article that blew my mind about using humic acid and fish amino acids(chelators)
The page wouldn't let me copy and paste, so I'll say the parts that sparked my interest the most. #1-Manganese(Mn not Mg) is always low on my soil tests and I read that high organic matter soil will always be deficient in Mn because it will react and form bonds making it unavailable to the plant. My impression that I get from this "High organic soil will always be low in Mn". BTW, potting soil is very high in organic matter! #2- Using chelated Mn will only make the Mn deficiency worse. Chelates make iron more available than manganese(antagonistic relationship). Iron and Manganese work against each other and making one more available will lower the other. For some reason, iron has a stronger affinity towards chelates. This was the mind blower that changed my gardening habits. I was using 2x products(BioMin Booster 153 and Big 6) that were focused on fixing micronutrient def but I had HORRIBLE luck using them in my soil. It turns out that they work MUCH better as a foliar spray and don't let it drip into the soil. I now use manganese sulfate with my water and chelated micronutrients in a foliar spray. That iron issue that I was telling you about earlier can be fixed with a micronutrient spray. Mn and iron is not mobile in plant tissue, so you have to use a foliar spray to fix the deficiency. This also falls into "High Brix" gardening, using micronutrient sprays. Sorry if this is too much, but I only spend this much time with people that I like.
 

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
I know that I got kinda lengthy, but the moral of the story is that kelp and rock dust didn't provide enough Mn to fix my deficiency problems. Dr. Steve Solomon confirmed this in one of the podcasts(#6) that I listen to "Kis Organics" with Tad Hussey. Anyways, Dr. Solomon wrote books about remineralizing soil and he said "you would need an entire dump truck full of rock dust to equal one cup of zinc" and "cannabis is manganese sensitive" meaning that a Mn def in cannabis is very bad. Here is the podcast, there is a 3pt series with Clackamas Coots also!
 

guhman2002

Well-Known Member
I know that I got kinda lengthy, but the moral of the story is that kelp and rock dust didn't provide enough Mn to fix my deficiency problems. Dr. Steve Solomon confirmed this in one of the podcasts(#6) that I listen to "Kis Organics" with Tad Hussey. Anyways, Dr. Solomon wrote books about remineralizing soil and he said "you would need an entire dump truck full of rock dust to equal one cup of zinc" and "cannabis is manganese sensitive" meaning that a Mn def in cannabis is very bad. Here is the podcast, there is a 3pt series with Clackamas Coots also!
Awesome I’ll give that a listen ... thanks man!
 

guhman2002

Well-Known Member
Fresh round of pics...
Bounced back from LST/SC quick and strong...
Black Sugar is spreading out like a vine, gelato is going strong, white og is super compact but healthy, I’m gonna tie it off and spread it out...
Blueberry finally snapped out of a little shock it was in I guess from a kinda dry transplant but it’s finally shooting new tops...
Blackberry clone savior is coming back strong.
Also got a new little friend in the bunch
 

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The3rdMan

Well-Known Member
I'm not knocking you for doing this! Anyways, I've tried all of the inputs for micronutrients and I found that they are all lacking in Manganese and sometimes zinc or boron. I kept using more and more kelp and I ran into sodium issues, so I started upping the rock dust and I could never fix Manganese issues. The problem with running high P inputs is iron lockout. Plus, excess P is supposed to hinder myco growth and that is whole purpose of Clackamas Coots's recipe, low phosphorus. Back in 2015, I started testing my compost and I found that it was always high in P, so I got very interested in what Clackamas was trying to tell us.

You seem cool, so I'm going to let you in on my latest findings. I'm always screwing up, but I find the answers to my problems usually and just keep trucking. I was looking for ways to raise my micronutrient levels and I saw that everyone kept saying "Chelate your micronutrients" but I kept running into problems after using it. I found this little article that blew my mind about using humic acid and fish amino acids(chelators)
The page wouldn't let me copy and paste, so I'll say the parts that sparked my interest the most. #1-Manganese(Mn not Mg) is always low on my soil tests and I read that high organic matter soil will always be deficient in Mn because it will react and form bonds making it unavailable to the plant. My impression that I get from this "High organic soil will always be low in Mn". BTW, potting soil is very high in organic matter! #2- Using chelated Mn will only make the Mn deficiency worse. Chelates make iron more available than manganese(antagonistic relationship). Iron and Manganese work against each other and making one more available will lower the other. For some reason, iron has a stronger affinity towards chelates. This was the mind blower that changed my gardening habits. I was using 2x products(BioMin Booster 153 and Big 6) that were focused on fixing micronutrient def but I had HORRIBLE luck using them in my soil. It turns out that they work MUCH better as a foliar spray and don't let it drip into the soil. I now use manganese sulfate with my water and chelated micronutrients in a foliar spray. That iron issue that I was telling you about earlier can be fixed with a micronutrient spray. Mn and iron is not mobile in plant tissue, so you have to use a foliar spray to fix the deficiency. This also falls into "High Brix" gardening, using micronutrient sprays. Sorry if this is too much, but I only spend this much time with people that I like.
Go to buildasoil.com and check out there Big 6 Micro contains Manganese, Boron, Copper, Zinc, & Molybdenum.

Use 1/4 teaspoon every other week. They left out the Iron since most soils have plenty of it.
 
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Wetdog

Well-Known Member
Too late now, but from your 1st pic it seemed like you were lacking perlite by at least half and likely to have aeration/drainage problems down the line as stuff starts breaking down.

*My* starting point with Perlite is 40% and with other aeration amendments (Pine Bark Fines/Mulch), ends up closer to 50% total aeration.

Wet
 
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