Counterfeit Money

ilkhan

Well-Known Member
"there was never a sufficient way devised to introduce the forgeries into the british economy in sufficient quantity."

But see now we have electronic currency all you have to do now is give the "Forgeries" to the bank they will will do the rest for you. Much better then dropping money on a farm house, Damn farmer would probably take the shit to the constible and ask if anyone lost 2 million pounds. No you gotta give it to Bankers they don't care where it came from only that they get to loan it out.

21,000 out on their ass hmm well get used to it. This shit isn't over and its gonna get worse. This was going to happen there was nothing for it. People arn't buying, if nobodys buying you can't pay your workers. People arn't buying because the banks arn't making loans, and no one has any savings. We all need to start living within our means stop barrowing money start saving. But you've got the government barrowing for us now. Heaping ever more debt on OUR heads. Even as we try to save they sabitage us with more barrowing. As if central planning can save us.

We need sound money, money that is a stable store of wealth and end fractional reserve banking. That will solve 90% of the problem the rest can be solved with Med's much loved regulations. Regulations ageinst fraud thats it. Then let the market work. People will get back to work and start saving building wealth for the future wealth with real value, not these paper promises.
 

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
"there was never a sufficient way devised to introduce the forgeries into the british economy in sufficient quantity."

But see now we have electronic currency all you have to do now is give the "Forgeries" to the bank they will will do the rest for you. Much better then dropping money on a farm house, Damn farmer would probably take the shit to the constible and ask if anyone lost 2 million pounds. No you gotta give it to Bankers they don't care where it came from only that they get to loan it out.

21,000 out on their ass hmm well get used to it. This shit isn't over and its gonna get worse. This was going to happen there was nothing for it. People arn't buying, if nobodys buying you can't pay your workers. People arn't buying because the banks arn't making loans, and no one has any savings. We all need to start living within our means stop barrowing money start saving. But you've got the government barrowing for us now. Heaping ever more debt on OUR heads. Even as we try to save they sabitage us with more barrowing. As if central planning can save us.

We need sound money, money that is a stable store of wealth and end fractional reserve banking. That will solve 90% of the problem the rest can be solved with Med's much loved regulations. Regulations ageinst fraud thats it. Then let the market work. People will get back to work and start saving building wealth for the future wealth with real value, not these paper promises.
You mean there's a credit crisis?

I don't have the foggiest how it actually effects me. Must come from being a conservative and not having the misbegotten notion that the world owes me and thus its okay to mortgage my life to get the things the world owes me.
 

ilkhan

Well-Known Member
Well, I feel sorry for the people who ran out to buy a home "because real estate never goes down" or "if the prices keep rising I will never be able to buy a home" I know people who fell into this trap. While I bought a home for $80k my co-workers were buying houses for $270k I told them I warned any who would listen but nobody believes the conspiracy guy. Everybody know real estate never goes down, right?? Or running out to buy $40k Cars, $40,000 for a car WTF. I buy a used car for $1200.00.

The info was there for anyone to find all you had to do was not believe the hype, the media for just a few minutes and research but they didn't. To bad so sad. This is what you get for believing the government and media.
 

ViRedd

New Member
The unions got fucked, as usual. Money talks and workers walk. Should make you happy though, 21,000 unemployed union workers. Happy days are here again, EH Redd?
The unions didn't get fucked, Med. The employees who believed in and depended upon the unions got fucked.

Between the union bosses' greed and power lust, and stupid management people that allowed themselves to be blackmailed by the union bosses is what fucked the employees.

And no, I don't think that 21,000 people getting laid off is a good thing. Hell Med ... they buy houses when they're working. :lol:

Vi
 

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
Well, I feel sorry for the people who ran out to buy a home "because real estate never goes down" or "if the prices keep rising I will never be able to buy a home" I know people who fell into this trap. While I bought a home for $80k my co-workers were buying houses for $270k I told them I warned any who would listen but nobody believes the conspiracy guy. Everybody know real estate never goes down, right?? Or running out to buy $40k Cars, $40,000 for a car WTF. I buy a used car for $1200.00.

The info was there for anyone to find all you had to do was not believe the hype, the media for just a few minutes and research but they didn't. To bad so sad. This is what you get for believing the government and media.
Yes, and there's a similar Myth about the Stock Market, or was, I think that myth was revealed to be just that in 1929, and again in 2000 or 2001 (Internet Bubble.)
 

max420thc

Well-Known Member
as far as the markets go there is very little good news other than a few tech stocks.
the only good news they can come up with is it is not as bad as we thought it was going to be so its good news.
the banks are showing a profit ..that is because the tax payer has just purchased all of their junk bets and they got to keep the winning bets in their portfolio..
the credit markets are still froze up bad .the banks are full of money with no body in the economy qualified to get a lone.and over 650K jobs a month being lost. of course uncle sugar is telling everyone that every this is starting to look good now..id like to know where? bernake nor geithner..who is a former fed president i might add...have been correct about a single thing in over two years..so you know they are just blowing smoke up everyone who will listens ass to support the stock market and stupid speculators . id be scared to buy stocks right now personaly i see it as a house of cards that need to b e around 4000 points.
i read bloomburgs every single day..other than some talking heads trying to tell everyone how wonderfull it is all the statistics are fucking bad.
even alot of the media is trying to help the dems paint a pretty picture.. every thing the left wing media is printing is garbage . the media and obama is saying one thing ..warren buffet just told his people its going to get worse and hang on for a rough ride.i think ill retire soon..LOL.
soros, rogers ,faber. the real movers and shakers all say civil unrest and GLOOM AND DOOOOOOM ..these guys are market makers. in other words they have so much fucking money they can influence the markets in their favor almost no matter what they are trading.rogers is getting rid of ALL OF HIS DOLLARS AND HAS NO STOCKS HELD IN THE USA..faber is the same way. no US stocks for him. no US bonds nothing..none of the marker makers or breakers are hardley touching the US market other than buffet and his money is starting to go to china. the only reason buffet has anything in the american market is number one he is stuck in this market..and number two he is proffiting big time from all the bail out money obongo and the dems are giving him and berkshire.
 

jfgordon1

Well-Known Member
Well, I feel sorry for the people who ran out to buy a home "because real estate never goes down" or "if the prices keep rising I will never be able to buy a home" I know people who fell into this trap. While I bought a home for $80k my co-workers were buying houses for $270k I told them I warned any who would listen but nobody believes the conspiracy guy. Everybody know real estate never goes down, right?? Or running out to buy $40k Cars, $40,000 for a car WTF. I buy a used car for $1200.00.

The info was there for anyone to find all you had to do was not believe the hype, the media for just a few minutes and research but they didn't. To bad so sad. This is what you get for believing the government and media.
it's so true. they have the option to do their own research, but instead they believe everything on TV. it's a shame. :cry:
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
There are stocks that are going up in value besides a few tech stocks. Gold and Silver mining companies are gaining big time, and will continue to do so. Gold and especially silver have been making big gains also. Gold has gained nearly 2700% since its ownership was made legal in '73. Silver has in the last 8 months nearly doubled in value. the future prospects for Gold and Silver are looking very good, many experts agree that $3000/ounce gold and $100/ounce silver are very possible in the next few years. In silver alone that would be over 1,000% gain in a very short time period. IF we went to the standard silver/gold ratio then silver could very well go to the moon at $300/ounce. Not to mention that we have used more silver than we have been mining for almost 30 years now, the world has maybe 1 billion ounces of silver above ground in all forms ( Bullion, jewelry,fixtures,electrical etc) but has more than 5 times that amount in Gold, thats right, there is actually 5 TIMES MORE REFINED GOLD ON EARTH THAN SILVER!! Gold will protect your wealth, but silver could make you rich. Go to any coin shop and ask to buy bullion, if they have any.

The official US Dollar as defined by the US Coinage Act of 1792 is to be 371 (27g)grains of fine(.999) silver ( 480 grains is 1 troy ounce) and also the eagle was the gold coin worth 10 dollars and by law was to contain 247 grains or 17 grams of pure gold. Historically ( 140 years) gold by weight was worth about 15 times what silver was. Today silver is worth about 1/65th of gold by weight. On earth silver is found at about a 15:1 ratio to gold ( Those founding father types were pretty well informed) so it should return to that at some point in the future, just as soon as the inevitable crash in the dollar comes.

Did you know that when you buy gold and silver there is NO SALES TAX by law? Also there is no report to the government that you bought any. as long as the sale is below $10,000 there is no record of any kind kept. In instances where more than $10k was spent only the cash sale is reported, not what was purchased. If you go across the US Border you do not have to declare any of your gold or silver either, no matter how much you have. Go across the border with 10 million dollars and I guarantee you will have to report it, but go with a ton of gold and all is fine. These are laws enacted long ago by our founders to protect the citizens from our own gubbermint. Gold and silver cannot be controlled by the government, therefore the government cannot control you if you have some. Since gold cannot be inflated it always holds its value over time and is the bane of the central banker and Keynesian Inflationists. Get some at all costs if you want to survive the future.

As far as Fort Knox having gold, I seriously doubt there is ANY AT ALL. The last time they did an audit of the gold there Johnson was President. Since then we have loaned it all out or sold it all to keep the price of gold low. You see for the price of gold is the leading indicator of how much the US dollar is really worth. The more gold is worth is the exact same thing as the US dollar being worth less. ANd gold has gained in value ever since we were taken off the Gold Standard entirely by Nixon in '71. Since then the US dollar has been the world reserve currency and Oil was pegged to the dollar. So if you wanted to buy oil for your country you had to convert your foreign money to US dollars before you could buy oil. South korea once tried to buy oil with its own currency, so the US Navy all of a sudden was performing exercises off its coast overnight. The US navy only does exercises off other countries coasts to show that county what will happen if it does not comply with USA policies.

Right now in Zimbabwe they do not accept the money there, they only take gold and silver in payment. If you want to eat ( All the Farmers were kicked off the land by the State) then you have to pan or mine for gold and silver to get the 1 gram you need to buy the bread to live another day. Old people cannot mine, they are too weak and are dying of starvation, as are the children. They have 27,000 % annual inflation there due to printing massive amounts of money. Items change prices every day they are twice as much. No one accepts the money it is worthless, they only take the precious metals or barter.

Bartering has its place, but ultimately it breaks down as one man cannot by himself create a car and therefore must collaborate with others. Also, what happens when you want fish, and have bread , but the guy with the fish doesn't want your bread? Trade does not happen is what happens, now Gold comes into the picture, as it will hold its pure form indefinitely rain or shine and for eons of time it will still be gold, bury it for 10,000 years and it comes out just as good as it went in, that is why Gold is used as money and has been for over 5000 years. It is not some barbarous relic, but instead the ultimate protector of wealth. Gold is accepted as money EVERYWHERE in the world. Fighter Pilots are given a gold coin to use as money should they be shot down over enemy territory and need to bribe or purchase their freedom. They don't give them US Dollars for a reason, only gold is the MOST liquid asset there is, accepted everywhere. Why do you think they have sayings like " As Good as Gold" or "Gold, Jerry, pure Gold" if Gold was not the ultimate money? The american Public has been duped by the banksters into believing that a piece of paper had some REAL value, but only gold and silver have intrinsic value. Paper (Cotton) currency by fiat only has value in the fact that the government will by any force necessary make you to take it in payment. Like was said before those are legal tender laws, but they are unconstitutional because

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

Thats section 8 of article 1 of the US Constitution simply states that it is Congress who will regulate the value of money and that money will be coined not paper. Right now the Federal Reserve ( A Privately held company) issues our money.

Article I, Section 10, provides that "No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but GOLD AND SILVER Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

Anyway, food for thought.
 

weedaweedaweed

Well-Known Member
We use legal tender issued by the government because it is convenient and facilitates the transfer of goods and services.

A fantasy world where gold, marijuana, blowjobs and high fives are the units of trade sounds very nice, but it gets a lot more complicated when the farmer, manufacturer of nuts and bolts, school teacher, fireman, professional basketball player and executive vice president of television and microwave oven programing get involved.
 

weedaweedaweed

Well-Known Member
Gold and silver do not have intrinsic value. If the US were to discover a massive deposit of gold tomorrow, the global price would drop considerably. Nothing has intrinsic value, commodities are worth only what people are willing to pay for them.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
I am not so sure you understand what the word intrinsic means weedaweedaweed. If silver and gold have no intrinsic value then their value could possibly be nothing. This is impossible, gold and silver can NEVER be worth nothing. Do you have any idea the amount of capital it takes to bring a single ounce of gold from the depths of the earth? You may have to crush 400 tons of ore to get 1 ounce, not something you would do for something with no value. I am sorry sir but intrinsic value is different from worth. You are thinking that on the open market gold and silver are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them, and that is EXACTLY what is happening to the price right now. They find 1000 ton ore deposits all the time, it has no effect on the price of gold, it still has to be mined and that my good sir takes huge amounts of cash and years to get going .People are beginning to see the light and the value of precious metals goes up. Paper has no intrinsic value because it could only be worth the paper its printed on and in hyperinflation not even that. Modern life as you know it is completely impossible without silver, no cell phones, no television or radio, most electricity would cease to exist, no nuclear power plants, no photography I could go on and on the things that silver makes possible. Its true that gold is not a very useful metal, but silver is incredibly useful and is the only known asset that is both monetary and industrial and benefits from both.

Paper money could be used to wipe your ass, or to burn in a fire for fuel, beyond that it has no value, its just a piece of paper with numbers printed on it. If I take an apple and write 100 on it does it become 100 apples? no its still just 1 apple, but If I take a piece of paper and write 100 dollars on it it is now worth 100 times what the same piece of paper with 1 written on it is. Its a sham.
 

weedaweedaweed

Well-Known Member
what if no one wants gold? no demand = no value

I'm not sure you understand basic economics.

The amount of capital required to extract the gold is irrelevant, if no one wanted gold, no one would bother mining it. Gold was valued historically because it's pretty. The reason it is seen today as "intrinsically valuable" is because it has taken on a new status as a sort of global currency. Gold has value because it is an easily exchangeable commodity with limited supply, which is exactly what the US dollar is.
 

ilkhan

Well-Known Member
I bet you went to school to learn about this stuff to didn't you.
You sound just like the guys that say "the fundamentals of the economy are strong."

"what if no one wants gold? no demand = no value"
Point to one instance in history in the last 2700 years that gold had NO value anywhere.
See the great thing about paper is if you don't take it we bomb your country.
Thats how we back our money.

"I'm not sure you understand basic economics."
I could say the same about you.

"The reason it is seen today as "intrinsically valuable" is because it has taken on a new status as a sort of global currency."
No it is seen as a hedge against unstable currancy. It isn't a "new status" its an old status that is pretty much universaly accepted.

"Gold has value because it is an easily exchangeable commodity with limited supply, which is exactly what the US dollar is."
What is the limiting factor on the dollars supply? What bankers say it is? How lovely. We can watch how limited its supply is when the FED creates 1.8 trillion dollars out of nowhere. Yeah, real limited. Pretty soon nobody will be buying our debt then what? We just print up money.

Whatever, the days of Keyneisian economics are just about over, Hooray and good ridance!

In '71 the government had the price of gold set at $35 an ounce.
All the brilliant economists said that gold would probably drop to about $6 dollars.
Because the price set by the government was proping up its value.
they where all dead wrong only the Austrians got that right.
The price never droped below $35 it promptly jumped to $70 and higher.
And we had us some bad economic times "stagflation."

Its time to put real limits back on bankers and the government spenders.
Its time for some form of commodaties standard.
You paper 'tards have done quite enouph damage already,
Thank you very much.
 

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
what if no one wants gold? no demand = no value

I'm not sure you understand basic economics.

The amount of capital required to extract the gold is irrelevant, if no one wanted gold, no one would bother mining it. Gold was valued historically because it's pretty. The reason it is seen today as "intrinsically valuable" is because it has taken on a new status as a sort of global currency. Gold has value because it is an easily exchangeable commodity with limited supply, which is exactly what the US dollar is.

US Dollar a limited supply are you delusional?

If the US Dollar had a LIMITED (FIXED) supply then it would not be inflating, it would be deflating.

If the US Dollar had a LIMITED supply it would not be possible for the banksters to conjure money out of their ass in the form of electronic credits or actual dollars.

If the US Dollar had a LIMITED supply the Mint would not be minting coins and printing Federal Reserve Notes day and night.

Now, perhaps you are stating that what we call "a dollar" is not in fact a dollar, and that the real U.S. Dollar (the one backed by Gold/Silver) is no longer in circulation. That is true, and there is a limited supply of those.
 

weedaweedaweed

Well-Known Member
"No it is seen as a hedge against unstable currancy. It isn't a "new status" its an old status that is pretty much universaly accepted."

I think 'new status' was bad wording on my part, I guess I mean relatively new because gold has been used as a hedge against unstable currencies under the bretton woods regime since the gold standard was abandoned. You are exactly correct here.

"what is the limiting factor on the dollars supply? What bankers say it is? How lovely."

Well actually it's what the central bank says it is (more specific than 'bankers'), which means that institution is given a measure of control over the money supply. During a recession the money supply is increased in order to 'ease' the recession and promote a level of inflation. This helps stabilize the business cycle and prevent massive swings which naturally occur in any capitalist economy due to the business cycle.

"We can watch how limited its supply is when the FED creates 1.8 trillion dollars out of nowhere. Yeah, real limited. Pretty soon nobody will be buying our debt then what? We just print up money."

We don't just 'print money', the fed buys up federal securities freeing up available funds for private banks to create an exponentially greater number of loans based on the principles of fractional-reserve banking. You're right though, there should be and there are limits on the amount of money that the fed can print. If the fed increases the money supply too much by buying up excess amounts of government debt it can trigger hyperinflation (like in zimbabwe as someone previously mentioned). So basically the fed is constrained to a certain range of action it can take without either a) not easing the recession enough or b) sparking hyperinflation.

"Whatever, the days of Keyneisian economics are just about over, Hooray and good ridance!"

We're not discussing Keynesianism here, we are discussing monetarism as espoused by Milton Friedman.

"Its time to put real limits back on bankers and the government spenders.
Its time for some form of commodaties standard.
You paper 'tards have done quite enouph damage already,
Thank you very much."

Monetarism isn't to blame for the current economic crisis, poor regulation of private financial institutions is. Here in Canada, we follow essentially the same neo-liberal economic doctrine as the united states, the only difference explaining our shallower and shorter recession is that our private banks took on far less bad debt. You're confusing wall street with the fed. I agree there is a lot of bad banking going on, but it's not being done by the government (although it might be their fault because of the lack of regulation)



TheBrutalTruth: I think I addressed your comments in that post too, feel free to respond
 

wonderblunder

Well-Known Member
How is money, money?
Isn't All Paper Money Counterfeit? think about it. The public (Us, The People) Didn't create money. We Didn't say hey look lets use this as money. They Told Us Hey Look this is money. So does that in a way make it not money. lol There's no real money besides gold and silver. Money is a way to control the world. How can it have value? we cannot make it , eat it , drink it , use it ,buy it, sell it or grow it. so how does it have value.
This thread is ridiculous. You are too stoned for this. Doeasn't mak any sense
 

maxamus1

Well-Known Member
all money not mad by the government is counterfeit. so all the money we use today is counterfeit sense it is made by a privet bank.
 
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