Dark Side Of The Moon.....

canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
Thundercat said:
Ok so I guess it technically starts here https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/131193-thundercats-groooooooow-7.html. That was the first set of pictures and where most of the discussion on technique and such began.

When the mushrooms really start to grow it will only take 24-36 prolly to go from small little fruits, to full size spore dropping beauties. I've checked on my grow before and it will just look like little pins one day, and the next morning they are 2-3 inchs tall. By the time i got off work that night some had already dropped spores.
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I scanned your thread. are you still using vermiculite in your initial substrate? If you are, it is counter productive, what you are doing is diluting the nutritional value of your primary medium. You will get bigger, denser flushes if you dispense with anything but pure grain. I know that many use vermiculite because they are concerned about water content but so long as no water collects at the bottom of your jars, you are ok. Oh, and I noticed (I think) that you said you were cold shocking the jars and then spreading the subsrate in trays? If so, that is counter productive as well. Disturbing the mycelium after a shock retards the process. Of course you don't need to shock at all unless you are looking for a full orchestration of pinning.
 
Thundercat

Thundercat

Well-Known Member
I havn't been growing any for a few years now Canndo. But I'm always trying to learn for my future ventures. Which verm did you mean? I was using a small amount in my grain jars when I PC'd them to absorb any extra moisture off the bottom so the grain didn't cook in it. I was also using verm when I made my trays. I wanna say I was adding 3 colonized pints and 2-3 pints of steralized verm per tray. Then letting it colonize in my incubator for a few days before casing it and fruiting.

As far as the cold goes, the only time I was sticking jars into the fridge was for storage before I had room to use them. I was trying to keep a cycle going where I constantly had an extra set of jars in the fridge incase I had a batch get contamed. I only ran that grow for about 6 months as when the temps changed I couldn't get things right in the grow any more I didn't have enough control when it was 90 outside and 85 inside.
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
Thundercat said:
I havn't been growing any for a few years now Canndo. But I'm always trying to learn for my future ventures. Which verm did you mean? I was using a small amount in my grain jars when I PC'd them to absorb any extra moisture off the bottom so the grain didn't cook in it. I was also using verm when I made my trays. I wanna say I was adding 3 colonized pints and 2-3 pints of steralized verm per tray. Then letting it colonize in my incubator for a few days before casing it and fruiting.

As far as the cold goes, the only time I was sticking jars into the fridge was for storage before I had room to use them. I was trying to keep a cycle going where I constantly had an extra set of jars in the fridge incase I had a batch get contamed. I only ran that grow for about 6 months as when the temps changed I couldn't get things right in the grow any more I didn't have enough control when it was 90 outside and 85 inside.
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Gotcha! I would advise using gypsum next time, not only will it adjust your moisture content but it will keep your ph level for longer. You see, the metabolic nature of mycelium makes it's surroundings more acidic. The more acidic the substrate the more quickly you will incur contamination. The real battle between mycelium and contamination is ph. I try to make my substrate and my casing as base as the mycelium will grow. This gives me just a little more time before trich sets in, as it always does. If I can forestall contaminaion through a fourth or fifth flush I will see another small percentage of yield.

Still, as I have said, you will get 80 percent of your yeild in the first three flushes. If one is forced to support their grow through 4 or 5 or 6 in order to get an extra bit of yeild then they have not dealt with their grow properly. Its friday, I am smoking a cigar, drinking some scotch and preaching - forgive me.
 
DCobeen

DCobeen

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
Gotcha! I would advise using gypsum next time, not only will it adjust your moisture content but it will keep your ph level for longer. You see, the metabolic nature of mycelium makes it's surroundings more acidic. The more acidic the substrate the more quickly you will incur contamination. The real battle between mycelium and contamination is ph. I try to make my substrate and my casing as base as the mycelium will grow. This gives me just a little more time before trich sets in, as it always does. If I can forestall contaminaion through a fourth or fifth flush I will see another small percentage of yield.

Still, as I have said, you will get 80 percent of your yeild in the first three flushes. If one is forced to support their grow through 4 or 5 or 6 in order to get an extra bit of yeild then they have not dealt with their grow properly. Its friday, I am smoking a cigar, drinking some scotch and preaching - forgive me.
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hey that is jsut like in our bodies acidic means cancer/tumors/ect ph balance is a key. my plants also like a good ph.
 
D

~Dankster~420

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
This is inaccurate.


Mycelium for most mushrooms in nature grow in the dark. Most mycelium grows underground, under cow pies, at the interface between earth and logs, in the space between wood and bark. It is only when the mycelium senses an ability to send up fruit that has a chance of releasing spores to the outside world that it will fruit. This many times involves light, both as a means of orienting the fruiting body and as a trigger for fruition.

And it does so when the conditions are optimal for the spores the fruit releases to germinate when those spores lite upon a suitable substrate.

Mycelium needs a "chance to aclimiatize to light" as much as a mole does. Aborts or border breaks indicate that one has not provided this particular mushrooms with the exact conditions it needs to fruit most prolificaly.


P. Cubensis is so viable that it will fruit in spite of the grower's short falls and this is what introduces falacies about it's requirements.

Anyone can cause this organism to fruit but in order to get the maximum yield - that is the first three flushes which ordinarily will give the grower the 80 percent potential there must be an orchestration of several factors


Timing
PH
nutrition and a signaling of the end of that nutrition
light or the absence of light
humidity
CO2 commensurate to the cycles of the organism.
Temperature and temperature differential.

Not all of these conditons are critical for P. Cubensis but a few are, when all of them are orchestrated, one can get a maximum return on the investments made in persuit of this sort of magic.
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canndo said:
If you are going to time lapse, you should set the camera at two pics a day until you think you are about to pin, then you would be best taking one shot every few minutes. I have sat and watched my mushrooms grow. I always wondered how they could go from about half an inch high to 8 inches in the course of a day or at most two and I have often been caught unaware as I went out for a beer or something and came back only to find all the veils hanging and purple crap all over the caps - I used to hate that and went so far as to wash the caps - when you do that, using a moist paper towel, it brings out the golden glisten when they dry. But that was a lot of work. i finally got to a strain that did not sporulate at all and thought I was a genius. It turned out that it was sencience and a few generations of clones from fruit finally left me with a lifeless, un energetic, slow growing low producing strain of crap - too bad as they were giant amazonians that had addapted themselves very well to my conditions.

I finally did manage to do a cross between an old amazonian strain and B+. The pin set was unique, looking like a plane of blisters that seemed to boil with primordia before each and every pin grew in thickets of solid stem monsters. True crosses aren't as hard to do as everyone claims if you have your agar teqnique down and are very patient as each cross needs to be grown out - very few actually get to fruit.

Anyway, your one picture a day won't really work on pins. Oh, and I always wondered how anything could grow THAT fast. It seems that the celular structure of the fruit is set at a certain number and after that number is assembled by the organism, the cells simply expand. If I recall, this particular mushroom will expell it's spores at ultra high velocities where the basidia shoots the spores away under great pressure, the spores experiencing many hundreds of gs of acceleration (or something along that order, maybe dozens - hundreds seems high).
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ok.. Shewww. I feel overwhelmed. lol What is "pinning" :??: Also, I think I have a rough idea as to what I need to do thus far. Could I use this as my substrate http://www.amazon.com/Rye-Berries-Bag-Box-Each/dp/B000RHXKTO/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1393053113&sr=8-3-fkmr0&keywords=rye+berries+substrate
if so I would need to wash it, then pack it into my jars, then pc them :??: after that I would then inoculate with my spores, then sit in a dark place for them to colonize, I've been reading for a period of 5 to 7 days. :??: Sort of mixed directions on a few things. lol. After they have colonized off to the fruiting chamber :??: place contents onto foil :??: Once they start growing, I read where you said you had "purple" on the caps :??: what caused that, and is it bad to leave it on :??: Sorry about all the questions, I just dont want to mess it up.. Thanks again. Also does the ph of my water in the fruiting chamber matter :??: The temp I am reading should be around 80 to 86 degree's :??:
 
KLITE

KLITE

Well-Known Member
Well i 'found' last summer that the jars colonized a bit faster at same temperatures when exposed to normal daylight/darkness in a room wuth a small window than those jars inside my previously dark incubator. It was so blody hot in my den the temperatures never went below 26 and never above 29. So i wouldnt call it inacurate before you give it a try and see for yourself.
Also I just did a quick search on shroomery on the issue and Roger rabit says this in a post:

Mycelium will colonize slightly faster when exposed to normal day/night ambient lighting. Avoid bright light during colonization, but normal room light is actually beneficial, partly because the mycelium derives energy from the light and partly because it helps to establish a circadian rhythm. Leave the jars on a bookshelf or something, not in a box.
RR

i know its just another guys opinion but that guy is old and has a lot of experience with fungi. Also didnt know mycelium would derive energy from light... kinda cool

 
KLITE

KLITE

Well-Known Member
~Dankster~420 said:
ok.. Shewww. I feel overwhelmed. lol What is "pinning" :??: Also, I think I have a rough idea as to what I need to do thus far. Could I use this as my substrate http://www.amazon.com/Rye-Berries-Bag-Box-Each/dp/B000RHXKTO/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1393053113&sr=8-3-fkmr0&keywords=rye+berries+substrate
if so I would need to wash it, then pack it into my jars, then pc them :??: after that I would then inoculate with my spores, then sit in a dark place for them to colonize, I've been reading for a period of 5 to 7 days. :??: Sort of mixed directions on a few things. lol. After they have colonized off to the fruiting chamber :??: place contents onto foil :??: Once they start growing, I read where you said you had "purple" on the caps :??: what caused that, and is it bad to leave it on :??: Sorry about all the questions, I just dont want to mess it up.. Thanks again. Also does the ph of my water in the fruiting chamber matter :??: The temp I am reading should be around 80 to 86 degree's :??:
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I would advise you buying the berries locally or at a feed place? Should be really cheao, and trust me if using rye berries you wanna try out a couple times cooking them til you get the moisture right. Soaking them for 12 hours and then cooking them until you can squish a berry in your fingers but its still al dente its ready. Then pack them in a jar with a tyvek filter and a port hole for silicone if you are using a syringe, which i really advise you to if not doing G2G. Then pressure cook them for 1 hour. I wouldnt have them sitting in a dark place, but you can have them in a dark place just be sure to have about 28C. If you do manage to keep around 28C, the moisture content is PERFECT in the berries, the about 2 ml of spores you squirted in there have shit loads of spores, the jars have a breathable filter and you shake the jars at around 20% colonization you can get close to 1 week colonization but its a bit hard... I trully recomend you doing a tub... i can tell you how i do mine if you want.
Purple or blue i think usually come from bruising. Mushrooms like it freshish i think around below 20 C but to be honest ive grown them in close to 30C and as low at 8 or 9C just slower and less of them.
And pinning is when the myceloum starts pushing throught little caps that look like pins which will eventually become fruit bodies.
 
Thundercat

Thundercat

Well-Known Member
The purple that Canndo is talking about is the spores that had dropped onto the mushrooms while he was out having a beer. The spores won't hurt the actual mushrooms you eat as far as I know, but I believe that if they get on the actual mycilium that will effect future growth. I think most people try to pick their mushrooms just shortly before they drop spores. At that point they are just about at the peak size they will reach, and potency. When the spores get on the mushrooms and dry on them, it can leave the mushrooms looking almost black which to some might not be appealing.

You've mentioned it a few times now dank, that you don't want to hurt anyone with these. I don't think there is anything you can do that would make the actual mushrooms dangerous other then putting chemicals or somthing right on them, or allowing them to mold and trying to eat them still. I'm sure that canndo someone will correct me if I'm wrong here. There are lots of things you can do that will keep the mushrooms from growing, but as far as I know you aren't gonna mutate them or make them poisonous.
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
KLITE said:
Well i 'found' last summer that the jars colonized a bit faster at same temperatures when exposed to normal daylight/darkness in a room wuth a small window than those jars inside my previously dark incubator. It was so blody hot in my den the temperatures never went below 26 and never above 29. So i wouldnt call it inacurate before you give it a try and see for yourself.
Also I just did a quick search on shroomery on the issue and Roger rabit says this in a post:

Mycelium will colonize slightly faster when exposed to normal day/night ambient lighting. Avoid bright light during colonization, but normal room light is actually beneficial, partly because the mycelium derives energy from the light and partly because it helps to establish a circadian rhythm. Leave the jars on a bookshelf or something, not in a box.
RR

i know its just another guys opinion but that guy is old and has a lot of experience with fungi. Also didnt know mycelium would derive energy from light... kinda cool
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I've been growing mushrooms for just a little over 40 years. But there is always something new to learn. RR's observations not withstanding, it is the orcestration of pinning that really is disrupted in p. Cubensis with ongoing light.
 
canndo

canndo

Well-Known Member
Thundercat said:
The purple that Canndo is talking about is the spores that had dropped onto the mushrooms while he was out having a beer. The spores won't hurt the actual mushrooms you eat as far as I know, but I believe that if they get on the actual mycilium that will effect future growth. I think most people try to pick their mushrooms just shortly before they drop spores. At that point they are just about at the peak size they will reach, and potency. When the spores get on the mushrooms and dry on them, it can leave the mushrooms looking almost black which to some might not be appealing.

You've mentioned it a few times now dank, that you don't want to hurt anyone with these. I don't think there is anything you can do that would make the actual mushrooms dangerous other then putting chemicals or somthing right on them, or allowing them to mold and trying to eat them still. I'm sure that canndo someone will correct me if I'm wrong here. There are lots of things you can do that will keep the mushrooms from growing, but as far as I know you aren't gonna mutate them or make them poisonous.
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It is even questionable as to whether or not this fruit grows in the mids of other contamination, will be dangerous. Mushrooms tend to pick up heavy metals, toxins and radioactive elements from their environment - of course these might be harmful but growing them in normal conditions is not.

You do, however, need to see to it that you don't breed other dangerous organisms - inadvertantly. So long as what you grow is snow white or blue white or (on very rare occasions) green white - you are safe.
 
Thundercat

Thundercat

Well-Known Member
Thats kinda what I thought. So I'm figuring dank won't be growing in or around anything with heavy metals or toxins, and unless there was other dangerous stuff growing the actual mushrooms should be good to go.
 
D

~Dankster~420

Well-Known Member
KLITE said:
Well i 'found' last summer that the jars colonized a bit faster at same temperatures when exposed to normal daylight/darkness in a room wuth a small window than those jars inside my previously dark incubator. It was so blody hot in my den the temperatures never went below 26 and never above 29. So i wouldnt call it inacurate before you give it a try and see for yourself.
Also I just did a quick search on shroomery on the issue and Roger rabit says this in a post:

Mycelium will colonize slightly faster when exposed to normal day/night ambient lighting. Avoid bright light during colonization, but normal room light is actually beneficial, partly because the mycelium derives energy from the light and partly because it helps to establish a circadian rhythm. Leave the jars on a bookshelf or something, not in a box.
RR

i know its just another guys opinion but that guy is old and has a lot of experience with fungi. Also didnt know mycelium would derive energy from light... kinda cool
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So 82.4 degree's correct :??: And hell yes, I need all the help I can get bro. ;) lol haha I just feel fucking lost right now, and feel like its all flying over my head. IDK hopefully once everything arrives, and I am able to see it all and see what I am actually dealingh with I will by then have a general idea of what I need to do to get max yield, what the best medium is, yada yada yada. ;) So keep them in the dark while they are colonizing :??: Sheww. View attachment 3002877

KLITE said:
I would advise you buying the berries locally or at a feed place? Should be really cheao, and trust me if using rye berries you wanna try out a couple times cooking them til you get the moisture right. Soaking them for 12 hours and then cooking them until you can squish a berry in your fingers but its still al dente its ready. Then pack them in a jar with a tyvek filter and a port hole for silicone if you are using a syringe, which i really advise you to if not doing G2G. Then pressure cook them for 1 hour. I wouldnt have them sitting in a dark place, but you can have them in a dark place just be sure to have about 28C. If you do manage to keep around 28C, the moisture content is PERFECT in the berries, the about 2 ml of spores you squirted in there have shit loads of spores, the jars have a breathable filter and you shake the jars at around 20% colonization you can get close to 1 week colonization but its a bit hard... I trully recomend you doing a tub... i can tell you how i do mine if you want.
Purple or blue i think usually come from bruising. Mushrooms like it freshish i think around below 20 C but to be honest ive grown them in close to 30C and as low at 8 or 9C just slower and less of them.
And pinning is when the myceloum starts pushing throught little caps that look like pins which will eventually become fruit bodies.
Click to expand...
Thundercat said:
The purple that Canndo is talking about is the spores that had dropped onto the mushrooms while he was out having a beer. The spores won't hurt the actual mushrooms you eat as far as I know, but I believe that if they get on the actual mycilium that will effect future growth. I think most people try to pick their mushrooms just shortly before they drop spores. At that point they are just about at the peak size they will reach, and potency. When the spores get on the mushrooms and dry on them, it can leave the mushrooms looking almost black which to some might not be appealing.

You've mentioned it a few times now dank, that you don't want to hurt anyone with these. I don't think there is anything you can do that would make the actual mushrooms dangerous other then putting chemicals or somthing right on them, or allowing them to mold and trying to eat them still. I'm sure that canndo someone will correct me if I'm wrong here. There are lots of things you can do that will keep the mushrooms from growing, but as far as I know you aren't gonna mutate them or make them poisonous.
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Thundercat said:
Thats kinda what I thought. So I'm figuring dank won't be growing in or around anything with heavy metals or toxins, and unless there was other dangerous stuff growing the actual mushrooms should be good to go.
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Nope. Not goin be growing the Shrooms around any type of heavy metals, and or chemicals (other then my nutes). But they are sealed up and will be in a separate room. Will be using my old flowering room #2 for the Shroom grows. So hopefully the temps will be just right. Although they have been falling at night down to around 65 degrees, when the lights are on in flowering room#1 it gets around 80 max!

Ok. So the "purple" Canndo is spores :??: Is that what people collect when they are wanting to collect more spores in these syringes :??: What do you do, just suck that stuff into a syringe with sterile water in it :??: lol Maybe I am getting ahead of myself. I just really think all of this is way interesting, also I am excited, and cant wait to get things going!!. I was also wondering how folks create their own crosses of these Shrooms :??: Again thanks 4 all the help thus far guys. Really does mean allot. OH!! I got my other 3 syringes in today.!! :) View attachment 3002880 View attachment 3002881 B+. --> View attachment 3002886The infamous B+ strain of cubensis... what a chameleon this one is. This is by far the most versatile cubensis around. Adapting and growing in such a wide range of temperature conditions and substrates in nature.. It truly thrives to spread its seed, which by the way its a very heavy spore depositor. The B+ originated here at The Hawks Eye in 1999 an we still carry the original genetics to this strain. Thanks to Mr. G of Florida for giving this one to us back in '99. This has been our all time best seller after all of these years and Mr. G should be proud for finding such a fantastic cubensis. The B+ has been witnessed growing outdoors in nature fruiting several times in a wide range of temps and substrates. Several times one winter, night time low of 45F, day high of 60F, the B+ just flourished. Spring/summer, low of 75F, high of 90F, the B+ once again fruited beautifully. We've heard so many good reports back from growers in Amsterdam that just love this mushroom and how easy it grows, and how beautiful it is, its loved by many.

Although the B+ is not a super fast colonizer, its speed is average, producing some very large mushrooms that are generally a caramel color. When growing in nature in cooler temperatures, it usually always produces a very beautiful color caramel cap and stems. The stems are generally very thick, and it produces some large caps. It also drops a very thick veil. When growing in warmer temperatures, it's color changes to a more golden color at times. View attachment 3002882 Mexican. --> View attachment 3002888 This magic mushroom strain is originally from Mexico, but has been cultivated in the Netherlands for so many years that the local shroom variety earned a reputation of its own. The mycelium produces massive mushroom yields under a wide variety of conditions. View attachment 3002884 Golden Teacher. spores_teacher_figure1.jpg Very easy to grow with large yields and minimal aborts. Small to medium thickness with medium length fruit bodies. They grow in families of small to large clusters. Veil comes off easily from cap.

This strain is very fleshy, and not as hollow inside the stems as other strains. Good for the yield and quality oriented grower.

They enjoy pretty much any substrate. Enjoys casings and takes over quickly, and does great in cakes.

A very popular strain that has made it through-out the world several times, and is well know for it's will to grow with minimal efforts. They are also very beautiful and picture perfect. They are fast colonizers. Very domesticated.
 
D

~Dankster~420

Well-Known Member
**EDIT** Mexican spore information : This magic mushroom strain is originally from Mexico, but has been cultivated in the Netherlands for so many years that the local shroom variety earned a reputation of its own. The mycelium produces massive mushroom yields under a wide variety of conditions.
 
DCobeen

DCobeen

Well-Known Member
Dank i would first buy the pre made version jsut add water bag and light. while you try to do it from scratch. that way you get a bunch no matter what. my friend Joe does his on a log. always wondered about him. he is over tonight and we are drinking. he lauhged when i said shrooms. im gonna have to shroom with him for sure.
 
D

~Dankster~420

Well-Known Member
DCobeen said:
Dank i would first buy the pre made version jsut add water bag and light. while you try to do it from scratch. that way you get a bunch no matter what. my friend Joe does his on a log. always wondered about him. he is over tonight and we are drinking. he lauhged when i said shrooms. im gonna have to shroom with him for sure.
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Well, the system I ordered already has the jars made up I do believe. So hopefully all I will have to do is inoculate the jars, let colonize and then fruit. I was just wondering what would be the best grow medium for max yield, I heard/read someone say "popcorn". Sounds easy enough dealing with just 1 medium. I may use that depending on what I hear/read growers get yield wise using popcorn vs any other medium.. :??:

T@ll T33 said:
subbed looks interested good classic strains. :)
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Thanks 4 subbing up. Look forward to having you around.
 
D

~Dankster~420

Well-Known Member
I was just thinking I could always just purchase my jars serialized already to go.. Just until I can catch on to the process, and what all is the best ingredients for max yield/return. Also, should you PH your water :??: and do the mushrooms need feed :??: or do they just get the nutrition from the medium :??:
 
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