Defending HPS in a LED world

I first want to say that I'm no expert on the characteristics of various lighting. You can blast me with numbers and I can tell you it's all been said before.

And I still am here to defend growing under HPS lighting.

I've been growing under HPS for over 10 years. During those years I've read over and over again that LED is as good as HID's....only to witness the limitations of that type of lighting. First it was the red/blue/green was the end all....then COB lighting....and numerous variations then and since. Most of the time the LED lighting was pricey and often the cheaper look-alike versions were a waste of time. If I bought the "latest" LED's of the day through all this, I would have probably needed to upgrade several times....and while my grow rooms were not huge, it would have been pricey each time.

Through thick and thin....I've stuck with my old HPS set-ups. I do have a couple CMH's to broaden my spectrum, but my primary lighting has been various numbers of 600w HPS's. I don't want to try to tell you that HPS is the answer to all growers needs.....as HPS has it's challenges too. Right now heat is my biggest issue. Even though they are vented outside.....it's very hot in my grow room during the summer months. It's a bitch for 4 out of the 12 months of growing. Then there's the power consumption. Currently I'm running four 600w HPS's and two 315w CMH's and my best guess it cost me about $100 a month...my biggest expense growing. I also replace HPS bulbs about every six months at around $70 each....sometimes less if I catch a sale.

Good growers I respect tell me that "they'll pay for themselves" over time. Well I did the math and depending on which way I go...it'll take about six to seven years before I see a return on investment. The reality is that I'm 66 years old, and while I'm not at the "don't buy any green bananas" stage, I can't guarantee I'll be around in six years or be able to still grow if I am.

And finally......I look at commercial grow ops and what lighting do these big-buck operations most often run? Yep.....HPS/CMH. They have the funds to go LED and considering the cost of lighting a huge room with HID's.....it would seem they'd opt to go with LED's....but still go old school. Apparently they did some math too. I'm not saying ALL big ops run HPS's.....but many do.

So if you're new to this whole growing thing......and are on a budget but want quality lighting....don't overlook HPS.

Here's a video of a grow room I had about five years ago.....tell me it's not working.

I agree that hps still has its place, but then so does metal halide mercury vapour hids. I still use in colder months as veg lights. They also add blue to the hps when used together.

Southernontariogrower said:

I agree that hps still has its place, but then so does metal halide mercury vapour hids. I still use in colder months as veg lights. They also add blue to the hps when used together.

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I've vegged with MH in the past. I found that T5's, while not quite as good, do pretty well and run cooler and cheaper.

lilroach said:

I've vegged with MH in the past. I found that T5's, while not quite as good, do pretty well and run cooler and cheaper.

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I still run hps too the heats handy for my situation in a warm summer no in most situations yeah or id need to supply supplemental heating so it does the job well

My first grows in a garage many decades ago used several 2 thousand watt metal halides to cover a decent chunk of garage space, maybe half. Heat could have be an issue, fortunately not in my case. I was afraid of shit getting hot and catching fire. Only other drawback was the electric bill. For context, back then average household electric bill was 30-50 bucks . With 2 halides and fans we easily hit $300. Aside from that, light coverage is good and plants good as well

obijohn said:

My first grows in a garage many decades ago used several 2 thousand watt metal halides to cover a decent chunk of garage space, maybe half. Heat could have be an issue, fortunately not in my case. I was afraid of shit getting hot and catching fire. Only other drawback was the electric bill. For context, back then average household electric bill was 30-50 bucks . With 2 halides and fans we easily hit $300. Aside from that, light coverage is good and plants good as well

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the electric company must have seen you coming. If my hydro was that high I'd lose it. I'd rather run a thousand watt hps than a 1500 w heater or a 750 w heater for that matter. Just seems more worth it to me. And no way two lights and fans cost that much! Just saying!

lilroach said:

Here's a video of a grow room I had about five years ago.....tell me it's not working.

Click to expand...

Video not working!

lilroach said:

I first want to say that I'm no expert on the characteristics of various lighting. You can blast me with numbers and I can tell you it's all been said before.

And I still am here to defend growing under HPS lighting.

I've been growing under HPS for over 10 years. During those years I've read over and over again that LED is as good as HID's....only to witness the limitations of that type of lighting. First it was the red/blue/green was the end all....then COB lighting....and numerous variations then and since. Most of the time the LED lighting was pricey and often the cheaper look-alike versions were a waste of time. If I bought the "latest" LED's of the day through all this, I would have probably needed to upgrade several times....and while my grow rooms were not huge, it would have been pricey each time.

Through thick and thin....I've stuck with my old HPS set-ups. I do have a couple CMH's to broaden my spectrum, but my primary lighting has been various numbers of 600w HPS's. I don't want to try to tell you that HPS is the answer to all growers needs.....as HPS has it's challenges too. Right now heat is my biggest issue. Even though they are vented outside.....it's very hot in my grow room during the summer months. It's a bitch for 4 out of the 12 months of growing. Then there's the power consumption. Currently I'm running four 600w HPS's and two 315w CMH's and my best guess it cost me about $100 a month...my biggest expense growing. I also replace HPS bulbs about every six months at around $70 each....sometimes less if I catch a sale.

Good growers I respect tell me that "they'll pay for themselves" over time. Well I did the math and depending on which way I go...it'll take about six to seven years before I see a return on investment. The reality is that I'm 66 years old, and while I'm not at the "don't buy any green bananas" stage, I can't guarantee I'll be around in six years or be able to still grow if I am.

And finally......I look at commercial grow ops and what lighting do these big-buck operations most often run? Yep.....HPS/CMH. They have the funds to go LED and considering the cost of lighting a huge room with HID's.....it would seem they'd opt to go with LED's....but still go old school. Apparently they did some math too. I'm not saying ALL big ops run HPS's.....but many do.

So if you're new to this whole growing thing......and are on a budget but want quality lighting....don't overlook HPS.

Click to expand...

I'm basically the same age as you, (68 in Oct), and grew my first buds under T-12 shop lights in '78 then in '82 got a 1000W MH mag ballast and bulb and still have it tho I think the coil is shot as I'm only getting half the voltage at the bulb end. Thought it was the capacitor but a new one didn't help. Got hydro nutes in about 7 or 8 big baggies of chemicals with a photocopied mixing list for various veggies. The dude at the Western Water Farms store in downtown Vancouver just pointed at the tomato one and winked. lol

I'd like to get some decent LED lights to save a little power as ours is over 30¢/kwh now here in lovely northern BumF**k Alberta

Right at this moment I'm running a 400W Philips CMH off a 40+ yo mag ballast that still has it's original cap in it and I recently disconnected the wires from the cap to test it and it's still right on spec. US made so what else!

This one right here.



I have 3 HPS 400 mags, 1 MH 400 mag, 3 digital 600s and a working 1000W MH/HPS mag with bulbs and spares for all with a lot of Hortilux which I consider top of the line especially my 970W EYE Hort conversion bulb which is twice the lumens of any other I have. just checking at specific distances like 1, 2 and 3ft away. Only used it twice to do the stretch on larger grows so lots of life left in that one. It's the big box on the right. Those Plantmax bulbs are crap but cheap as hell.



Like you I have doubts about seeing a return on my investment if I get some decent LEDs that would do half what I can do now. It's not like I'm using all that stuff all the time but being an old pack-rat I tend to accumulate spares as deals pop up. I got my digital 600s on a trip out to BC for $60 each and they came with lightly used Hortilux Super HPS bulbs and batwing style reflectors. I walked into a hydro store in Chilliwack, BC and they had 24 sets from a shut down grow op so I picked through the lot of it to get the newest looking bulbs and ballasts and bought 5 sets. Gave two to my buddy up here for a Xmas present and kept 3 for myself. Couple of spare bulbs for $10 each too.

Got myself a Light Rail 4.0 some time ago and that has paid for itself for sure in power savings. It can make a 400 do the job of a 600 and a 600 do the job of a 1000w light and only uses 9W itself. Another great American made product!



I have a small 1500W, (205 from the wall) no-name COB light with 5 cells in it that I use to veg smaller plants and an 11 9W bulb DIY light fixture I made a few years back for extra. I use those in a 2x4 tent in a spare bedroom and even with the little DIY one it gets too warm in there this time of year.



One of these days I'll win the lotto and everybody gets new LEDS!

lilroach said:

And finally......I look at commercial grow ops and what lighting do these big-buck operations most often run? Yep.....HPS/CMH. They have the funds to go LED and considering the cost of lighting a huge room with HID's.....it would seem they'd opt to go with LED's....but still go old school. Apparently they did some math too. I'm not saying ALL big ops run HPS's.....but many do.

Click to expand...

I'm not seeing this nearly as much as a couple of years ago. All of the new commercial grows I see are running LEDs.

lilroach said:

I first want to say that I'm no expert on the characteristics of various lighting. You can blast me with numbers and I can tell you it's all been said before.

And I still am here to defend growing under HPS lighting.

I've been growing under HPS for over 10 years. During those years I've read over and over again that LED is as good as HID's....only to witness the limitations of that type of lighting. First it was the red/blue/green was the end all....then COB lighting....and numerous variations then and since. Most of the time the LED lighting was pricey and often the cheaper look-alike versions were a waste of time. If I bought the "latest" LED's of the day through all this, I would have probably needed to upgrade several times....and while my grow rooms were not huge, it would have been pricey each time.

Through thick and thin....I've stuck with my old HPS set-ups. I do have a couple CMH's to broaden my spectrum, but my primary lighting has been various numbers of 600w HPS's. I don't want to try to tell you that HPS is the answer to all growers needs.....as HPS has it's challenges too. Right now heat is my biggest issue. Even though they are vented outside.....it's very hot in my grow room during the summer months. It's a bitch for 4 out of the 12 months of growing. Then there's the power consumption. Currently I'm running four 600w HPS's and two 315w CMH's and my best guess it cost me about $100 a month...my biggest expense growing. I also replace HPS bulbs about every six months at around $70 each....sometimes less if I catch a sale.

Good growers I respect tell me that "they'll pay for themselves" over time. Well I did the math and depending on which way I go...it'll take about six to seven years before I see a return on investment. The reality is that I'm 66 years old, and while I'm not at the "don't buy any green bananas" stage, I can't guarantee I'll be around in six years or be able to still grow if I am.

And finally......I look at commercial grow ops and what lighting do these big-buck operations most often run? Yep.....HPS/CMH. They have the funds to go LED and considering the cost of lighting a huge room with HID's.....it would seem they'd opt to go with LED's....but still go old school. Apparently they did some math too. I'm not saying ALL big ops run HPS's.....but many do.

So if you're new to this whole growing thing......and are on a budget but want quality lighting....don't overlook HPS.

Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with HPS, but your post indicates a number of reasons that you might wanna switch to LED, primarily the heat issue. With LED you will use less overall wattage, so less heat will be produced, and at the same time LED grows like a hotter environment anyhow. As far as costs, it seems like electricity is pretty cheap where you're at, but the amount you are spending on bulbs alone is worth switching over for. If you're buying a new lamp every 6-months, that's $140 a year, which adds up to $700 in 5-years. For that money you can buy one of these and dim it down to 80%:

I used to just tie a string up to the cooltube, and hook it to the oscillating fan in the room nearby. I would use little eye hooks, making it work like a pulley system, so it didn't stress the motors. It would pull the light back and forth, like 2-3 feet over the space.

Poor mans light rail

Have to be real with you. You speak of return on investment taking too long however you now have a product that is costing more you money on a monthly basis and as well as buying bulbs for $140 per year.

As of now you are running a money pit. Forget the abilities of the grow lights for a minute as we both know both work well.

Think about the money being wasted vs the return on investment.

I run a 600 HPS during winter for the added heat. The rest of the year I run 480W LEDs.

Yeah man as others have stated.
You are running over 3000 watts just in lights.
You are paying for replacement bulbs.
You have heat issues.

LED’s could

Cut watts in half

Nice brands have a warranty that should cover you
for the next few years.

Heat issues tamed if not gone.

The Hid/Mh has its place out there and does work. But for the average home grower LED is the move.

A mixture works out well in cooler climates and when I'm using lower wattage from autumn to spring.

i need to be using around 600/650w before I've enough heat generated to work with.

The alternative would be heater but I'd rather use light.

I appreciate all the comments. I get all the pluses of LED's.

Do you know what.....I was getting the same comments 6 years ago about the end-all in LED's and they were......and to put it nicely.....were lacking.

And I would like to point out that of the comments, no-one has tried to tell me that LED's are better for growing quality plants than HID's.

I acknowledge that LED's have come a long way since then....and maybe someday will actually match HID's .......but we're not there yet.

I have a LED expert that is a nerd on this and his suggestion of what I would need to spend to replace what I have going is about $2,000. Using his math, I would save $50 a month in electricity and about $300 a year in not needing to replace bulbs.....for lights that are almost as good as what I have.

While I bitch about the heat.....I live in Upstate New York where we have some pretty cold months....and that heat goes from unwanted to welcomed during those months. I would have to run heaters to keep the plants in the desired range....guess what that does to my electric bill?

I've spent years considering and debating LED vs. HID and here I am....still using HID's.

Cool

I've never used HPS, but i have used 3850k CMH for veg and flower, and Jesus H. Christ the plants fucking LOVE it. Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't use 3850k for flower although it wasn't bad, i think flower stacking would be heavier under something like 3200k.

I just think that LEDs make the most sense for your average homegrower. Under a commercial setting, or just any indoor setting where staff or just anyone is always present, i think HID lighting is still very much useful, if still a teeny bit wasteful by comparison to LED.

Watched the video

Thought there would be donks

Was very unimpressive