Deficient or burnt?

moash said:

thats what came to my mind when i saw the necrotic spots and tips twisting
which doesnt have to be a def,it could from an unbalanced supply of nutes,locking it out

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ok, ok, well that throws another wrench into my spokes, you think it's a lack of K due to lockout? You must because I'm feeding with Beastie Blooms currently which is high in P and K. Moash, your assistance is highly valued, can you elaborate any on what you think I should do next to correct this issue, or is there anything I could do to persuade you to read the journal to see if it could/couldn't be the case? I'm a little blabby sometimes, but I wrote it thinking no one would ever really read it anyway. If you just paid attention to all the hard data it would be a quick read? Peace man!

TheRuiner said:

ok, ok, well that throws another wrench into my spokes, you think it's a lack of K due to lockout? You must because I'm feeding with Beastie Blooms currently which is high in P and K. Moash, your assistance is highly valued, can you elaborate any on what you think I should do next to correct this issue, or is there anything I could do to persuade you to read the journal to see if it could/couldn't be the case? I'm a little blabby sometimes, but I wrote it thinking no one would ever really read it anyway. If you just paid attention to all the hard data it would be a quick read? Peace man!

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i would stop using the bloom enhancer...it has a P-K ratio of 2-1,when the ideal ratio is 1-2
i think thats the problem....stop using that and flush everything out,then start over with ur feeding schedule
where is the journal?

moash said:

i would stop using the bloom enhancer...it has a P-K ratio of 2-1,when the ideal ratio is 1-2
i think thats the problem....stop using that and flush everything out,then start over with ur feeding schedule
where is the journal?

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Right here: https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/336865-here-we-grow.html

I wonder why a bloom enhancer that so many praise and get good results from would do this though?

TheRuiner said:

Right here: https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/336865-here-we-grow.html

I wonder why a bloom enhancer that so many praise and get good results from would do this though?

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after looking through the thread,it seems to me that ur puttung alot of stuff in ur soil(remember that less is more)....over time the soil will turn acidic from the accumilation of salts
i still think its P lock out but dont know if its from ur soil ph drifting or from the unbalance of everything ur putting in there
read this
https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/318110-maximum-yield.html
edit:i meant K lockout

moash said:

after looking through the thread,it seems to me that ur puttung alot of stuff in ur soil(remember that less is more)....over time the soil will turn acidic from the accumilation of salts
i still think its P lock out but dont know if its from ur soil ph drifting or from the unbalance of everything ur putting in there
read this
https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/318110-maximum-yield.html

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I'm still reading the second article but I think the point you were making was in the first anyway... I will flush my plants tomorrow morning, but I'm doing it with well water... it's sulfuric (stinky) and the ppm are the same as my dirty RO water, plus I have a 5 gallon pot so I'm not waiting on 5 gallons to come out of the RO tap. I can have that out of the well and through my pots in the morning, that's when the dirt will be dry enough for a little more water anyway. I'll prep the shop vac with a water filter to suck up the run off tomorrow...
Here's a couple more pics of some of the hurt growth, and a bud shot to show the healthy new growth.

TheRuiner said:

I'm still reading the second article but I think the point you were making was in the first anyway... I will flush my plants tomorrow morning, but I'm doing it with well water... it's sulfuric (stinky) and the ppm are the same as my dirty RO water, plus I have a 5 gallon pot so I'm not waiting on 5 gallons to come out of the RO tap. I can have that out of the well and through my pots in the morning, that's when the dirt will be dry enough for a little more water anyway. I'll prep the shop vac with a water filter to suck up the run off tomorrow...
Here's a couple more pics of some of the hurt growth, and a bud shot to show the healthy new growth.

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looks good,other than the leaves
i might add that a flush usually consist of a 3:1.... water:soil ratio...so i guess in ur case 15 gal.
goodluck ,hope it works out
keep us updated

backnine951 said:

plants look like they can use cal mag from what i see in your 2 plant pic. if your new leafs are small and cupped and lower leafs are turning yellow and falling off then you need it. vertical growth will stop and leafs will contort and look nasty (nodes will be so close together like right on top of another because vertical growth stopped). if ur plants are like this then grab some cal mag and add it with your nutes....5 ml per gal. i had this prob because r/o strips the water of calcium and magnesium. but by what u say the plants should be fine, so sounds like cal mag def to me (not sure if FF has enough calcium and mag for r/o water though).

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Agreed. If you are growing with the FF line and R/O water CalMag is a must. 1/4 to 1/2 tsp per feeding. Drop the molasses until later in flower. And the edges curling up is a sign of heat stress.

moash said:

looks good,other than the leaves
i might add that a flush usually consist of a 3:1.... water:soil ratio...so i guess in ur case 15 gal.
goodluck ,hope it works out
keep us updated

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Son of a bitch then, I guess I'll be lugging 3 five gallon buckets full of water .... wait, I'll hook a hose up to it and run it to my tent, why am i making this harder on myself then it needs to be?
That's a cinch. Emptying the show vac will be the time consuming part.

Moash you are a man of kind spirit, and I'll smoke a join with you one day when it's legal.

cowboylogic said:

Agreed. If you are growing with the FF line and R/O water CalMag is a must. 1/4 to 1/2 tsp per feeding. Drop the molasses until later in flower. And the edges curling up is a sign of heat stress.

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Cowboylogic, hell yea, now I'm getting some heavy hitters involved.
Just to give you up to date info - the R/O filter I have was in the home when I bought it, I have no idea how old the filters in it are, replacements are going to be a Christmas present (replacing all of them for a clean start) I know they aren't brand new because the water that comes out is 150ish ppm's, where as it should be 0 correct? I purchased some epson salt, which as you know is pure magnesium, I fed the gal 1 tsp in a gallon of water about a week ago. I am still short on Calcium though, if your logic is right. I will get some cal/mag and use that going forward after this next flush, unless you can recommend some good strait up Cal, so I don't have a bag a epson salt sitting around for nothing?

Your help is highly valued and much appreciated! Thanks!

TheRuiner said:

Cowboylogic, hell yea, now I'm getting some heavy hitters involved.
Just to give you up to date info - the R/O filter I have was in the home when I bought it, I have no idea how old the filters in it are, replacements are going to be a Christmas present (replacing all of them for a clean start) I know they aren't brand new because the water that comes out is 150ish ppm's, where as it should be 0 correct? I purchased some epson salt, which as you know is pure magnesium, I fed the gal 1 tsp in a gallon of water about a week ago. I am still short on Calcium though, if your logic is right. I will get some cal/mag and use that going forward after this next flush, unless you can recommend some good strait up Cal, so I don't have a bag a epson salt sitting around for nothing?

Your help is highly valued and much appreciated! Thanks!

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Top dressing with dolomite lime is a good source of cal, mag and some minerals. Plus helps buffer the ph. Also as an amendment to your medium mix at the beginning. But your into the grow with FF. And R/o water, even at 150 I would still add 1/4 tsp per gal of Calmag when you feed.

Once you change your filters the output ppm can vary. Water pressure, contaminents ect.... 10-25 is the norm. Once you acheive this then up your Calmag to at least 1/2 tsp per gal each feeding. By then you will have learned a bit more on how to read your plants and past results.

Looking at your recent pics. They are all older material that has/was damaged. How is the new growth looking?

Just a grower like you. We all learn from each other.

I've given them a feeding of around 750-1000ppm's every other watering since they were old enough to handle it....

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There's your problem. It's not the fact if they can handle it, it's if they need it. Obviously your plants are not handling it or they wouldn't look like that. You're using FF line w/ additive trio following the grow schedual. That feed chart is very aggressive and feeding that amount every other watering is ridiculous. Either cut that dosage in half or feed once a week.

cowboylogic said:

Top dressing with dolomite lime is a good source of cal, mag and some minerals. Plus helps buffer the ph. Also as an amendment to your medium mix at the beginning. But your into the grow with FF. And R/o water, even at 150 I would still add 1/4 tsp per gal of Calmag when you feed.

Once you change your filters the output ppm can vary. Water pressure, contaminents ect.... 10-25 is the norm. Once you acheive this then up your Calmag to at least 1/2 tsp per gal each feeding. By then you will have learned a bit more on how to read your plants and past results.

Looking at your recent pics. They are all older material that has/was damaged. How is the new growth looking?

Just a grower like you. We all learn from each other.

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http://www.amazon.com/Botanicare-BCCMGAL-CAL-MAG-PLUS-Qt/dp/B000J2CUPW/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1280436993&sr=8-5

I have a few other Botanicare products that I'm not using in this lineup, you said cal-mag, is this what you would recommend or is there another calcium-magnesium product that you prefer, if so why?
I will purchase some domlite lime for the next grow round, how much do you mix in your soil? I'm using a 5 gallon pot now, next time I'm thinking about doing some 3 gallon airpots, either way, how much would you put in there?
I'll keep in mind what you said about the R/O water, I'll adjust my cal-mag feeding with the filter change as well...

You asked about new growth, all of the new growth looks stellar, I can't even think of something bad to say except I wish the buds where bigger! The leaf and flower growth that's life started after the leaves I showed you all looks great, I'm just worried that this will travel up the plant further and further if I don't correct it now. With 2 months of flower left there's enough time for it to start effecting the growth I am most concerned about on the plant.
I hear you about getting some exp with doing things this way, that's the most valuable thing I'll have at the end of this grow besides all the mind blowing popcorn. I'm a long way from where I used to do this and inside now, so the help I'm getting from you and other growers alike is invaluable to me, when it gets legalized and your in town, I'll roll you a doob. no shit.

bigsourD said:

There's your problem. It's not the fact if they can handle it, it's if they need it. Obviously your plants are not handling it or they wouldn't look like that. You're using FF line w/ additive trio following the grow schedual. That feed chart is very aggressive and feeding that amount every other watering is ridiculous. Either cut that dosage in half or feed once a week.

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I see what you mean man, I've read that the feeding schedule they give needs to be cut, and i have been cutting it in half, I didn't even start feeding them half until they were a month old.... So based on your contribution to this thread, I shouldn't be seeing this kinda damage from a cut in half FF feeding schedule, correct? why do you think, bigsourD, that I am seeing this with it cut in half? Do you still think it is overfeeding now knowing that? Thanks!

TheRuiner said:

I see what you mean man, I've read that the feeding schedule they give needs to be cut, and i have been cutting it in half, I didn't even start feeding them half until they were a month old.... So based on your contribution to this thread, I shouldn't be seeing this kinda damage from a cut in half FF feeding schedule, correct? why do you think, bigsourD, that I am seeing this with it cut in half? Do you still think it is overfeeding now knowing that? Thanks!

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You guys are on the right track. The FF feeding schedule is based on outdoor plants. Yoou do need to adapt it too indoor container plants. A 5 ft plant can hande 2 tsp TB and 2 tsp GB plus OS during transition. But our container plants are at least half as small if not more. So half of a 5 ft plant would be 2 1/2 ft. Cut the schedule in half, but you still need to work up to the ful dose. Feed according to plant and container size. Not what the salemen tell you too feed Just watch your plants and adjust as needed.

TheRuiner said:

I see what you mean man, I've read that the feeding schedule they give needs to be cut, and i have been cutting it in half, I didn't even start feeding them half until they were a month old.... So based on your contribution to this thread, I shouldn't be seeing this kinda damage from a cut in half FF feeding schedule, correct? why do you think, bigsourD, that I am seeing this with it cut in half? Do you still think it is overfeeding now knowing that? Thanks!

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I've had problems in the bloom phase before using the WHOLE FF line. I'm thinking it's an overdose of bloom nutrition. Keep your base nutrients 1/2 strength, stop using the boosters, and go from there.

I ran roughly two 6 gallon buckets of city water from my hose through the pot, PH should be about the same as in the house from the tap, about a high 7 ph.
I then ran another 4 litter bucket full of well water through the pot, about ph 4.6
and to top it off I watered with one more gallon of PH'ed well water at about 6.59 ph, 160ppm's right from the ground.
I sucked up all the run off water in a shop vac, I had to empty it 3 times and it's a 6 gallon tank.

I am now a blank canvas, IMO there are some absolute artists here when it comes to nurturing cannabis, I totally invite suggestions as to what I should do next?

bigsourD said:

I've had problems in the bloom phase before using the WHOLE FF line. I'm thinking it's an overdose of bloom nutrition. Keep your base nutrients 1/2 strength, stop using the boosters, and go from there.

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Sour, you think I should loose all the supplements that I just had rush shipped to get them in through the entire flowering phase? If that's what I need to do then so be it. Just seems like such a shame that all these people are having such good results with them and I'm having to cut them out.

What week of flowering are you on?

bigsourD said:

What week of flowering are you on?

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Wednesday marked the start of week 5. Please take into consider that I am flowering a sativa dominate plant that has the longest flowering period of any cannabis plant that I know about. 12 weeks is early from what I read about this strain. some have gone as far as 16-18 I expect a 13-14 week harvest time frame on harvest, but as I think you'll agree, I'll be letting her decided the exact date any of that takes place. Buds have formed but don't appear to be swelling yet, everyday they are just a little fuller though. What's the order doc?

PS ~ the bud in your avatar looks amazing man!

Yes Bontanicares CalMag Plus is some good shit. Technafloras Magical is also goodstuff. With either a 1/4 to 1/2 tsp per gal/4 liters does a fine job of supplementing R/O water. And I wouldnt drop the solubles, they work. I think most folks have troubles with the Full FF lineup because they do not water properly and get salt buildup from the Grow Big and Tiger Bloom. The solubles actually contribute very little to this. Feed/water/water/feed/water/water and you should not have any problems. Just make sure when you are just watering to get plenty of runoff. You cant overwater so to speak if the plant is ready for water. Overwatering is caused by frequency, not amount. And when its a feeding day, give them a drink of plain water to start with. Wait 30 mins to an hour then feed.

The last few weeks of flower is when the buds really fatten, calyxes fill with resin in place of the seed that they would prefer to be there. Sativa or Indica, its one of those signs you want to watch for and learn to recognize. Just one of a plants 'tells' that say I am almost done.

cowboylogic said:

Yes Bontanicares CalMag Plus is some good shit. Technafloras Magical is also goodstuff. With either a 1/4 to 1/2 tsp per gal/4 liters does a fine job of supplementing R/O water. And I wouldnt drop the solubles, they work. I think most folks have troubles with the Full FF lineup because they do not water properly and get salt buildup from the Grow Big and Tiger Bloom. The solubles actually contribute very little to this. Feed/water/water/feed/water/water and you should not have any problems. Just make sure when you are just watering to get plenty of runoff. You cant overwater so to speak if the plant is ready for water. Overwatering is caused by frequency, not amount. And when its a feeding day, give them a drink of plain water to start with. Wait 30 mins to an hour then feed.

The last few weeks of flower is when the buds really fatten, calyxes fill with resin in place of the seed that they would prefer to be there. Sativa or Indica, its one of those signs you want to watch for and learn to recognize. Just one of a plants 'tells' that say I am almost done.

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Cowboy, this is the kinda strait forward no-nonsense kinda advice that's going to teach me to be a grand master one day... Thank you kindly. I think your advice to water/water/feed is a good idea, I'm going to be doing that for the rest of the grow, I will make sure to give a more flushing water when I do water and I will also start practicing the 'give a little drink' before i feed technique.

What strength would you recommend I start back on the girl with when she's finally ready for another feeding, also would you recommend I water once more before introducing any more food into the mix or start back right away with food in 3-4 days when the dirt is starting to dry up? I want to grow buds like you and your pier are enjoying, I'll stop at no less than perfection. Bless you for your invaluable advice.