Defoliation Test

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Bud Brewer

Bud Brewer

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Uncle Ben said:
I'm all about low maintenance while maintaining efficiency. If I wanted more bud, (which I don't), I'd plant more plants.

Easy peasy.......
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Some of us would rather make the most of the area indoor or out not by increasing plant numbers you understand you get more time for more plants and if under a certain level just a fine for non med people.

Watering everyday is not low maintenance while losing efficiency instead of putting the work in and doing something right make it low maintenance fertile and get the most out of your effort.

The time it takes to do it right the first time makes up for it in much less water maintenance hours less a week and a bigger better fed root system meaning more bud (which you don't want) LMAO

A little extra work by defoliating a few times comes back big time want to see the pics?

If you actually drilled a ton of large 1/2" holes or cut the bottom out of your bucket instead of just using the four or six holes that if you have grown big plants they would clog quick.

They could be useful only to legal med growers unable to dig and amend soil but able to water every day in the blazing sun 5 gallons won't go a day with out water if big, but if you use the factory holes you may not get it big with limited rooting area.

If you had clay right near the surface then it is a good raised bed for helicopters to find only good for a few people.

Now most non med outdoor grows do it out of town in the wild no daily watering a 5 gallon, so the way to get the biggest plant and best water retention is to veg a plant indoors in a five gallon with dozens of 1/2" holes to a nice big size transplant out near the summer solace to avoid early flowering.

Then if you want the most out of a dry area dig as big a hole as you can and amend well but not to hot and keep at least half the native soil now bury the whole bucket to a bit below the surface.

Then make a funnel around the top so all water from the surrounding area goes down your bucket hogging all the water for your plant containing it inside the bucket going out the bottom were your roots are with well draining amended soil encase of heavy rain.

If it is super dry a piece of carpet over the whole area colored to match the area and covered in mulch extra bonus so it won't be noticed from the sky.

What I'm going to do is amend my coco, DE, compost mix at three times the strength to bring a bag of mix with me and two foot plants dig as big a hole as you can amend with as much as your willing to carry but keep at least half native soil transplant funnel the water to the plant from far as possible then I'll cover with carpet top dressing and mulch from the area it really keeps the water from evaporating I'm not in a dry area so I won't bury the bucket for better root movement.

With endless roots and sun you could grow something worth the trouble Instead of half assing it or growing more average plants to bring your numbers up instead of your skill and defoliation a few times for maximum yield.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Bud Brewer said:
Some of us would rather make the most of the area indoor or out not by increasing plant numbers you understand you get more time for more plants and if under a certain level just a fine for non med people.

Watering everyday is not low maintenance while losing efficiency instead of putting the work in and doing something right make it low maintenance fertile and get the most out of your effort.

The time it takes to do it right the first time makes up for it in much less water maintenance hours less a week and a bigger better fed root system meaning more bud (which you don't want) LMAO

A little extra work by defoliating a few times comes back big time want to see the pics?

If you actually drilled a ton of large 1/2" holes or cut the bottom out of your bucket instead of just using the four or six holes that if you have grown big plants they would clog quick.

They could be useful only to legal med growers unable to dig and amend soil but able to water every day in the blazing sun 5 gallons won't go a day with out water if big, but if you use the factory holes you may not get it big with limited rooting area.

If you had clay right near the surface then it is a good raised bed for helicopters to find only good for a few people.

Now most non med outdoor grows do it out of town in the wild no daily watering a 5 gallon, so the way to get the biggest plant and best water retention is to veg a plant indoors in a five gallon with dozens of 1/2" holes to a nice big size transplant out near the summer solace to avoid early flowering.

Then if you want the most out of a dry area dig as big a hole as you can and amend well but not to hot and keep at least half the native soil now bury the whole bucket to a bit below the surface.

Then make a funnel around the top so all water from the surrounding area goes down your bucket hogging all the water for your plant containing it inside the bucket going out the bottom were your roots are with well draining amended soil encase of heavy rain.

If it is super dry a piece of carpet over the whole area colored to match the area and covered in mulch extra bonus so it won't be noticed from the sky.

What I'm going to do is amend my coco, DE, compost mix at three times the strength to bring a bag of mix with me and two foot plants dig as big a hole as you can amend with as much as your willing to carry but keep at least half native soil transplant funnel the water to the plant from far as possible then I'll cover with carpet top dressing and mulch from the area it really keeps the water from evaporating I'm not in a dry area so I won't bury the bucket for better root movement.

With endless roots and sun you could grow something worth the trouble Instead of half assing it or growing more average plants to bring your numbers up instead of your skill and defoliation a few times for maximum yield.
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BB, that's the biggest crock of "advice" I've seen in a long time. Are you some kind of nervous neurotic or what? Carpet, drilling holes in pots, amending soil....are you kidding me? Stupid stuff.......

Look.....you keep doing your fourplay drills, I'll just stick it in and be done with it which includes never having to fertilize or water by hand.

The way I grow outdoors (and in) results in little to NO maintenance while getting yields to my satisfaction. That's the way I roll. And I know what comes next, you're gonna respond with some big headed, chest beating crap like "my plants can beat up yours". Life goes on.

Like I said.....get over yourself.

KISS,
UB
 
Bud Brewer

Bud Brewer

Well-Known Member
That's the biggest crock you actually tell people they would be better growing in a five gallon on top of native soil with four little holes for your roots to get stuck in.

Vs digging a gigantic hole with premium amendments with an endless root mass that wouldn't need daily watering.

You see how flawed that is my last post explains real options outside and be happy with your results I'm happy with mine.
 
Alexander Supertramp

Alexander Supertramp

Well-Known Member
BB the fact you say things like, make it funnel, lay carpet ect says one thing pretty loud and clear. You have never used this method or grown outdoors. You even say what I am going too do. Not what I have one in the past. I think UB is correct and your just a noob that got lucky with some good bagseed genetics. Your head has swollen and now your an overnight ganja god.
Time to engage the IGNORE function.....your now the newest on my list....welcome aboard....
 
Bud Brewer

Bud Brewer

Well-Known Member
The only newbie is you and ben you read a book in the sixtys and learned everything you know be happy in your ignorance.

If anyone has grown outside without making a funnel in the ground they must be a newbie The carpet is the only thing I haven't done.

Putting 5 gallon buckets outside to let the roots grow out from 4 1/2" holes is retarded good only for those that can't dig or make raised beds.

UB actually tell's someone not to plant in the ground because 5 gallons is better bullshit again.
 
Bud Brewer

Bud Brewer

Well-Known Member
I'm so glad since your still dodging the question on the leaf blocker thread you posted 3 nice average plants with a 400 I show you how they don't compare to one of my plants that got 500 watts.

Ignorance is bliss be happy in yours you don't know any better.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Bud Brewer said:
That's the biggest crock you actually tell people they would be better growing in a five gallon on top of native soil with four little holes for your roots to get stuck in.
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It is not placed on top of the soil, you stupid little jerk. READ what I said and try it. Or is your level of reading comprehension about as poor as your writing skills? You have not tried this mode of planting or you wouldn't be making ignorant statements like "your roots get stuck in". They get stuck no where, Dilbert, they quickly grow to the bottom of the pot, spin out like all plants do and grow thru the holes and root into native soil. I practically had to haul in my tractor to get the damn pots out of the ground they were so deeply rooted.

The final pot should have at least 4 drain holes, most black commercial pots have 6. Haul it out to your field and using a shovel dig a 3" deep hole big enough to swallow the pot. Drop it in, and using your finest Nike footwear, work dirt up to the pot. What comes next is what's important. The plant will enjoy the richness of the original potting soil and then the roots will grow thru the drainholes into native soil. It will then benefit from you watering from the pot down. The roots that grow out the drainholes will benefit from the water and NPK salts that you apply to the pot. Your result will be a low maintenance system that aids in plant vigor and production.

Easy peasy.......
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Vs digging a gigantic hole with premium amendments with an endless root mass that wouldn't need daily watering.
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Having planted thousands of trees in my day, I know what I'm doing, and the above advice is flawed, OLD SCHOOL and plain old "make work" stuff. Unless you're in sand, you never, never amend the backfill with organics because when you do, the plant gets comfortable with that environment such that the roots never bother to root into native soil, especially if it's heavy. They just sit there and spin around in their new pot you just dug. I can see some guerilla grower hauling 6 cu. ft. of potting soil, a digging fork, 10 gallons of water, perlite, etc. up some tree filled hill to put in some pot plants that will soon be eaten by deer and/or ripped off.



UB
 
cues

cues

Well-Known Member
Best trick I learnt for planting trees from pots is to dig a square hole for a round pot and 'fork' the sides. Helps stop root-spin.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Alexander Supertramp said:
BB the fact you say things like, make it funnel, lay carpet ect says one thing pretty loud and clear. You have never used this method or grown outdoors. You even say what I am going too do. Not what I have one in the past. I think UB is correct and your just a noob that got lucky with some good bagseed genetics. Your head has swollen and now your an overnight ganja god.
Time to engage the IGNORE function.....your now the newest on my list....welcome aboard....
Click to expand...
I'm right behind you. Got to give this know-it-all kid a swift kick to the butt first.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

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cues said:
Best trick I learnt for planting trees from pots is to dig a square hole for a round pot and 'fork' the sides. Helps stop root-spin.
Click to expand...
That is some good advice and what I've preached for years. Here's a ditty I wrote on the subject at another site earlier this month. I'll share it with ya'll. Even though a little off topic, the principles still apply to all plant material:

Concept - which comes first, the chicken or the egg.....roots or foliage? They go hand in hand, can't have one without the other but I'd say too little attention is paid to the root system by gardeners, doesn't matter what the plant material is. Gonna give you an example using other material. I purchased and built in a hay field and started a tree planting campaign around the house. "Finished" with 51 trees - conifers for windbreaks, oaks, bald cypress, maples, pistache, pecan, peach, olive, pomegranate and others I probably forgot. Before each planting I fractured the native compacted clay loam with a 2' deep subsoiler on a tractor, 3-pt. hitch. Dug the hole by hand, planted using no amendments in the hole, stake, rake in slow release Osmocote, mulch, water. Trees sit there for about a year setting a root system and then explode in growth. Same thing applies with my veggie garden which is 1/2 compost 1/2 sand and some native clay loam. Lots of native earthworms. The ROOTS are massive, which produces maters 7' tall and 5' wide. After this rant (meant to make a point) if you focus on the root system FIRST, you'll get your buds.

I often get scorned for making the comment to newbies, "forgot about the bud and ONLY concentrate on producing and maintaining the most amount of roots and foliage until harvest". Of course these are the same folks who follow gimmicks such as defoliation. Whether it's cannabis or trees, you need to let it go "trashy", leave the foliage alone. I found out the hard way that trimming a tree early on to make it "look nice" only produces a much slower growing tree with smaller trunk girth than letting it branch/leaf out every where for at least a year, preferably two.

Uncle Ben
 
Bud Brewer

Bud Brewer

Well-Known Member
I told people to keep at least half the natural soil I keep it all and just add things to open and lighten things up while helping with air and moisture retention plus some organics for food so the plant will still spread out fine with a lot more root size, even if it doesn't spread out in heavy clay it still would be a good size pot.

I can see the situations when a 5 gallon buried 3 inches in with a lot of holes drilled so more than four points exist for roots to grow can help people who can't dig but can water daily and don't have to worry about being spotted from the sky.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Bud Brewer said:
I told people to keep at least half the natural soil I keep it all and just add things to open and lighten things up while helping with air and moisture retention plus some organics for food so the plant will still spread out fine with a lot more root size, even if it doesn't spread out in heavy clay it still would be a good size pot.

.
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Bullshit again. You've just created a a french drain that will hold water and if there's a lot of rain over a short period of time, will promote root rot.

Copied this, another tweek I've tried, this one posted at the same Riddle3m site.

For some time now I've been practicing mulching a 5 gallon pot which mimics the litter on a forest floor. I told you guys about adding the panels to my avocado trees but first removing the 4" layer of pine needle and bark mulch - much to my surprise there was many small and profuse surface feeder roots just under the mulch. Mulched my outside cannabis plants with about 3" of mulch too. Seem to really aid in their growth and as you know it doesn't take long for cannabis to produce what I call adventitious roots at the surface. When choosing a mulch I wouldn't choose something like large chunky non decomposed pine bark nor would I choose totally composted black fine compost....something in between. Keep it pulled back a bit from the trunk.

Make it a great day,
UB
 
Bud Brewer

Bud Brewer

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
I'm right behind you. Got to give this know-it-all kid a swift kick to the butt first.
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You can't kick any thing but I do believe your right behind him as often as you can.

I have said the hole is dug and amended for drainage the amount of funneling is directly related to the dryness of the area.

As I said you can't kick anything even with months of veg in the sun and what should be unlimited rooting but it's restricted to four 1/2 inch holes you can't do what I do in half the time Indoors.





 
cues

cues

Well-Known Member
I've spent my life working with/studying soil and drainage. It's my trade.
Strangely, that's what I love about my flood/drain hydro system. It takes all the worries away from me and allows me to concentrate on the fun bit, the foliage and flowers. I have enough worries about cation exchange, drainage rates etc at work. My plants at home just need the res filling once a week.
 
HeartlandHank

HeartlandHank

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
Keep it pulled back a bit from the trunk.
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Yeah, who is the asshole laying all of these tree mulch volcanoes?

When someone has already mulched up onto the trunk, after about 2 years when the bark is all rotted out... do you think it is better to leave the mulch on the tree (covering the area with mulch) or pull it back a few inches from the tree (exposed, butwhere it should have been in the first place)? I see this daily.
 
cues

cues

Well-Known Member
It's kids with strimmers cutting through the cambium layer does the most damage.
Exposed roots are OK. We use it as a technique in bonsai.
 
Alexander Supertramp

Alexander Supertramp

Well-Known Member
HeartlandHank said:
Yeah, who is the asshole laying all of these tree mulch volcanoes?

When someone has already mulched up onto the trunk, after about 2 years when the bark is all rotted out... do you think it is better to leave the mulch on the tree (covering the area with mulch) or pull it back a few inches from the tree (exposed, butwhere it should have been in the first place)? I see this daily.
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I wish I knew! Cover the root collar and you will kill the tree. Or at least stunt it severely. And when planting a new tree it ok to dig the hole wider than the exiting root ball. But dont dig it any deeper than bottom of the root ball to the bottom of the root collar. Digging deeper even if you plan to back fill to keep the root collar above ground you run the risk of it settling, bringing the root collar below grade and wasting all your hard work and cash.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
HeartlandHank said:
Yeah, who is the asshole laying all of these tree mulch volcanoes?

When someone has already mulched up onto the trunk, after about 2 years when the bark is all rotted out... do you think it is better to leave the mulch on the tree (covering the area with mulch) or pull it back a few inches from the tree (exposed, butwhere it should have been in the first place)? I see this daily.
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The bark needs air, pull the mulch back a bit, unless it's rock. :)
 
T

thewizard01

Member
Uncle Ben said:
And so is the first photo previously posted. How do you explain that large mass of buds at the bottom levels of the plant, shaded by fan leaves? You do see the incredible amount of large fan leaves? Again, we see what we want to see but that plant speaks for itself.

I'm sorry you didn't get squat at the bottom. I always do double harvests to bulk up those lower levels a bit. Makes a big difference and not necessarily what I know you and the turbo posting photographer are gonna parrot - "buds need light to develop". When you cut out the bulked up colas, auxins are redistributed and now the lower part of the plant which had previously been regressive becomes dominant, able to enjoy all the plant's resources which includes a well developed and efficient root system.

It's all about botany people. Get ya sum - :)

UB
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Hey UB, you said you harvest the tops and let the bottom growth go longer before harvesting. Why exactly do you do this? Is it because the bottom growth isnt as well devolped or at the peak harvest window like the top growth? Or perhaps something else? I also do double harvests because I have found that after removing most of the top growth/buds that the bottom growth recieves more light and quickly because more devolped. I know you said the the bottom becomes dom. but do you really think light has nothing to do with it? Just wondering. thanks
 
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