Defund Social Security
- Thread starter Fogdog
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Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
There is an obvious fix to social security, tax people's entire income and not just the up to $132k that they are currently stopping at. The Wealthy White Heterosexual Male Only demographic really want the people of our nation to not understand that they barely pay any taxes at all on their massive incomes.
kmog33
Well-Known Member
Afaik i get taxed on all my income in Ca....My quarterlies were ever 100 last year...lots of people moving out of Ca because of this. It’s not really a fix, if I was taxed more than the 40ish I already am, I would leave. If there was nowhere in the country I could get taxed less than that, I’d leave the country. And anyone in the same tax bracket could fairly easily do the same. 5% of people pay something like 90% of the taxes in places like Ca/ny, right? There’s nothing obvious or easy about taking more money people earn from them, especially when they already pay for most of everything already.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
So, move. Or get politically active.
Whatever happens, please don't vote for tax cuts without complimentary and defined cuts in spending. Everybody complains about taxes but they never want programs they depend on cut.
For example, how about cutting the Mortgage tax deduction in order to fund your tax cuts? Or how about cutting spending on prisons by reducing prison populations? Just complaining about taxes is dumb without discussing what to cut.
kmog33
Well-Known Member
I am not asking for any tax cuts. Just stating a few people pay most of all tax revenue. so saying tax that 1-5% of people more, when they already pay 99% of all tax, isnt a super reasonable or easy solution to anything.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
So, let's just break this down.
the median family income in Los Angeles is $80,000
Average cost of living excluding rent in Los Angeles is $45,000 (family of four)
The average rent in Los Angeles is $30,000 per year.
That leaves $5,000 disposable income that could be taxed for people making median wages. Half make more, half make less. You aren't going to squeeze anything out of the lower half of the distribution. They simply don't have it.
So, yeah, California's income taxes are going to be coming mostly from the top wage earners because the lower half and more like the lower three-quarters of families don't have much of anything to give. The upper wage earners have most of the money. Those people on the lower half of the distribution are paying plenty in property taxes and sales taxes. Proportionally much more of their income goes into those taxes. I just don't understand where you think the money is going to come from.
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hanimmal
Well-Known Member
I dont understand why you are talking about Cali state taxes with FICA withholdings.
Someone who earns 100k a year is paying $7,650 a year in FICA, while someone making $16 million a year is [aying $10,480 (because it caps at $127k (2017%).
And as for the small% of people paying so much money, it is because that 5% are getting paid far more than the rest of the population, all of which are working so that those people are able to make their insane incomes. And they are keeping the majority of their income, all the while being able to re-invest it so that they can capture even more of the national GDP.
kmog33
Well-Known Member
What people work so that other people can make insane incomes? Most wealthy people make most of their money off of money they already have. Passive income makes more than active in almost every situation. Jeff bezos takes an $80k salary. It’s pretty hard to come up on a salary that makes you a billionaire.
kmog33
Well-Known Member
I just don’t think it’s going to come from taxing rich people more...look at cuomo freaking out right now because wealthy people are leaving.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
And that money i growing in interest because down the food chain people are working to build up businesses and even more people are working to make those businesses run.
The more money you have the more you are using the hard work of everyone else to earn it. That passive income shouldn't be treated more special (no FICA tax on income over 137k for example) than people working for it.
Bezos is one of the wealthy people who understand that they should be reinvesting in our civilization instead of just grabbing everything they can (like Trump does).
That is why the taxation should be on the federal level, rich people should not be able to just escape paying for all the countries resources that they utilize to do business.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
The coronavirus landed on this planet with a price in blood and treasure. As I showed you earlier, there simply isn't enough money in the lower 75% of incomes to pay for the extra cost. It's truly awful thinking that somebody might have to delay the purchase of a mega-yacht because a plague changed everything. But that's what we are asking.
Trump's and Republican leadership's answer is disconnected from reality. A million dead aren't going to pay taxes either. Nor are the ones thrown into the streets because they were behind in rent. Also, you can't have an economy without workers. You can't have workers when a plague picks them off because they went to work.
I'm sorry that you don't want this. I didn't ask for it either.
kmog33
Well-Known Member
If that’s how it worked, most Everyone with the means would leave, and then the us would actually be a third world country lol. Most of money in businesses, stay in the businesses. Some people get paid more than others. Free market...if you want to make more money, do something that makes more money. It’s a bad way to solve problems, taking money from other people rather than working for it imo. Got lots of Robin Hood’s in here. Jeff bezos donates/invests less than 2% of his assets the last time I read about it....still more than everyone else. So what does he understand?
kmog33
Well-Known Member
Rich people will find a way to keep their money, period. Trying to take more than they already put into the economy is a good way to make it worse.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
California keeps growing in population. Rich people aren't leaving California. The people who left, myself for example, were middle class seeking a better life elsewhere.
Please, do me a favor. Would you cite an article that backs up your concerns with facts? When I looked it up, I saw that this concern over the flight of the wealthy was bogus. This article, for example:
Rather, of those who left during the latest years for which statistics exist, the vast majority earned less than $30,000 per year. A net total of 469,000 of those leaving had no college degree. Given the prevailing levels of rents and home prices in California, it’s easy to see their financial motive in leaving for far lower-priced states like Texas, Nevada, Oregon and Arizona.
That was from 2016
This is from a Politifact article from this year:
"If you look at Quentin’s answer on WTTW, it’s clear he is referencing those who pay the 13.3% tax rate in California – those making over a million dollars – as those who are not leaving the state," Vote Yes for Fairness spokesperson Lara Sisselman wrote in an email.
So, I think you are just spouting right wing propaganda. I don't blame you for that, those bastards have been lying in that way for decades. Still, though, if you really believe you are right to think the wealthy will abandon California, I suggest you look of empirical evidence to confirm you belief. Because, belief without evidence is just a form of religion.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
They would need to spend their money here eventually if they left the USA with it.
Your simplistic 'if you want to make more money' line is pretty much bullshit. How mobile do you think our economy actually is?
And this is 'Robin Hooding' as much as it is looking at how our economy has worked in America and understanding how taxes are not hurting the ultra wealthy (the ones who pay the least % of their incomes towards actual needs and taxes). The bullshit the Republicans have been pulling since the 80s has left us with crumbling infrastructure and poisoned cities that need to be invested in, and now Trump is trying to sink social security and medicare for people. It needs to stop, our country is due for a major federal level program to rebuild our nation, and have no question the wealthy will still benefit far more than any other demographic, even if they need to foot the bill after scraping away so much the last 50 years.
I am guessing you are not including the money Bezos invest through his company.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
"Don't try to tax people with wealth because you can't". I'm sorry but that is devoid of logic.
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Out of your whole nonsensical post, you got ONE thing right. That's one more than you usually get right. Bravo!
dandyrandy
Well-Known Member
Back when I was born the rich paid mucho taxes. And very seldom complained. They had more power over the government than now. Robber Barron's are greedier now. The average American is greedier now. Even musk said it.