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DIY Hydroponic Nutrients in 5 minutes

Discussion in 'Do It Yourself' started by churchhaze, Dec 29, 2015.

  1.  
    Yesdog

    Yesdog Well-Known Member

    seems one of the most popular micro mixes is "Peters Hydroponics Special"- has all the chelated micros, and a base mix (5-11-26 NPK, or 1-1-5 elemental). It's a good base mix, and a low enough on P (currently shooting for 3-1-4 elemental, 3-2-4 NPK). Also pretty cheap even at small levels, about $0.07/gal. Once I have to space to start premixing, that's what I'm going for I think.
     
  2.  
    zem

    zem Well-Known Member

    i like a trace element mix with no npk ca mg S and just the trace elements. i still want to get some potassium silicate in my mix
     
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  3.  
    SLITLOS

    SLITLOS Active Member

    You mean STEM's, there are several makers. Rexalon APN might work. I can't get it here in Sticland in
    Kg's, only 25Kgs. So I use singles micros, and again, most of the nutes I'm using is for vegetables, not pot.
    CH, a question about the Fe, can you use EDTA or DTPA? I use EDTA for my vegs. Thanks
    SLITLOS
     
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  4.  
    zem

    zem Well-Known Member

    you can use edta in hydro but it is recommended to use eddha along because it is less likely to precipitate. I used more than one brand of trace element mix with success.
     
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  5.  
    Yesdog

    Yesdog Well-Known Member

    Yeah, it's best to use as many iron chelates as possible. If you get all 3 (EDDHA, EDTA, DTPA) Fe is available at almost all pH. Plus the chelators have secondary effects with other metal cations.

    Which base are you using? I would absolutely love a pure-ish micro mix.
     
  6.  
    rkymtnman

    rkymtnman Well-Known Member

    @zem and @Yesdog

    after a bit of insomnia last nite, stumbled upon this nute manufacturer NPK Industries. was curious as to what you guys think of the grow formula (seems like it's a better NPK than the bloom 3-12-12)

    here's the back label. thoughts?

    [​IMG]
     
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  7.  
    Alexander Supertramp

    Alexander Supertramp Well-Known Member

    Jacks Citrus, 2-1-2, has a triple chelated iron.
     
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  8.  
    Yesdog

    Yesdog Well-Known Member

    this shit looks awesome, going to have to give it a bigger look tonight.

    Hmm, looks good but it's a little hot on the N with no ammonium (im aiming for 3/4 or 4/4 N/K). Ammonium nitrate is dirt cheap an easy to get ahold of, but will of course jack up N levels even higher (at 1g/gal it'll add about 60ppm N, 15ppm NH4, probably 30% more than the mix has now). Hmm ammonium and potassium are also kinda at odds with eachother as far as pH. Adding both of those will make the solution more alkaline unless paired with an acidic anion- nitrate, phosphate, or sulfate (ph down, or paired with one these already as a somewhat neutral salt). And this formula already looks good on N, P and S.

    Might just be a bit too high right now, but I'm not sure how you'd add ammonium or potassium without knocking the ph out of balance (assuming its already a ph balanced nute, if its acid as fuck, then you're golden to just add alkaline stuff).

    This is one reason why I'm still eyeing the peters hydro special- just need ammonium nitrate and calcium nitrate for me to get to the target... 3(3.5)-1-4-2-0.5-0.5 (elemental! 3-2-4-* NPK), with the target 15ppm NH4. (plus additional cal/mag based on water. I'm still trying to find a simpler recipe lol). But it should balance out neutral- then sulfuric and potassium based up/down for ph control past that. Eventually I'll switch to nitric.

    That whole mix also feels really organic. I feel better keeping the organics, if any, as an additive so I can reign it in depending on how the root health is going. But with that said, if this really is going to be live and organic, you're going to get a bunch of extra ammonium from decaying organics and you might not need to add anything.
     
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  9.  
    rkymtnman

    rkymtnman Well-Known Member


    I did a bunch of searching on different forums on actual results and didn't find much which kinda raised a red flag. I do like the all in one concept and the addition of the biostimulants piqued my interest in the product. i watched a youtube video of the guy who founded NPK (Harley something) and he gave a really detailed analysis of everything in a proper nute and what it does and when it does it to the plant.

    i'm at a point now in growing where the only thing i'm going to change is nutes. everything else, although not optimal, is good enough for the few plants i grow.

    keep me posted when you come up with what you think is a good recipe. i'd be more than willing to try it out here under different conditions
     
    Yesdog likes this.
  10.  
    Yesdog

    Yesdog Well-Known Member

    Hmm, taking another look I think you could maybe just do this and regular CalMag with RO. It really does seem a little high on the K to me, but honestly with regular rez changes it shouldn't mean anything. N/K are super available, the ratios just might vary over time. The N ppm is also a little high, but there's 0 ammoniacal N, and the plants shouldn't care about normal N really past 200ppm. There's also probably some ammonium from the bio stuff.

    8ml/gal RAW grow
    4ml/gal CaliMagic

    EDIT: I didnt fill in the Fe value and im too lazy to update the picture, so ignore that value lol

    [​IMG]
     
  11.  
    Yesdog

    Yesdog Well-Known Member

    ill post my peters recipe when i can find something simpler- right now mine is contingent on CaliMagic randomly, and like.. too many things. Ill make a simplified ideal one that doesnt include me trying to drain my supply shelf lol
     
  12.  
    zem

    zem Well-Known Member

    I can't see in the label from where the 7 N is derived, it says 7-4-5 yet no N in ingredients.
     
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  13.  
    zem

    zem Well-Known Member

    I use a brand called Nutrel-C you won't find it, but I have seen a bottle of GH micro element mix.

    Dog do you have any idea about EDDHSA Fe? I happen to have some and using them, they have a very strong dyeing effect, just a little quantity gives the water quite reddish colour
     
  14.  
    rkymtnman

    rkymtnman Well-Known Member

    yeah, it does even say that on the label. best if used with cal/mg. i was curious if it was only for RO or if you needed it with tap/well as well.

    and on their website, they say a tsp per gal gives 380 ppm wanted to double check with them if that was 5 grams cause it is a powder.
     
  15.  
    rkymtnman

    rkymtnman Well-Known Member

    i agree. now that you mentioned it, just says water soluble N ....

    do you think the 7=4=5 would be much better than their bloom of 3=12=12 for a good flowering ratio?
     
  16.  
    zem

    zem Well-Known Member

    7-4-5 is high N for flowering imo. I would aim at 3-4-5 or so, then 1-3-4 or so for late bloom
     
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  17.  
    Alexander Supertramp

    Alexander Supertramp Well-Known Member

    Flora Nova Grow is complete with a 7-4-10. Kicks ass start to finish in coco.
     
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  18.  
    Yesdog

    Yesdog Well-Known Member

    With my 50ppm Ca tap (only 7ppm Mg tho! Gar. This is why I use ful-mag for an extra mag punch), id use 2ml/gal cal-mag. Still need an extra boost.

    I'm a masochist looking for a one-size-fits-all (and honestly, no rez change) solution. I ran high N up til the end on this grow, still have leaves yellowing on cue. I honestly think its just the ammonium you need to stay away from, at least the AN spectrometry readouts they published still shows a pretty unwavering N content throughout flowering (in some strains was more). Amino acids come from N by definition, the plant really can't escape the need to make em.

    For my next (peters based) grow, I'm going with a mix-in ammonium nitrate. I'll just stop using it in flower, but use it in veg as a growth enhancer. I think the plant still needs a bunch of N during flowering, but I'm by no means going to force-feed it N (via NH4) when its making the final product. But I will trust it's ability to regulate normal nitrate per usual.

    The irony in this, is my final mix on paper will look like "im dropping N content" during flower, but I'm really just trying to drop ammonium content. Maybe the fault in this all is that they lump ammonium content in with N under NPK, when it's oddly kind of just a plant-growth steroid.
     
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  19.  
    Yesdog

    Yesdog Well-Known Member

    it's a little high N for me in my books as far as both veg/bloom...

    I'm trying to stick to those damn spectrometry readings as much as possible as far as ratios, and just grounding the solution around 30-40ppm P and 15ppm NH4. Goal here is that the ppms are kept within safe bounds for direct root access, and minimize weird availability shit as far as solubility/dissociation/etc. Beyond that the ratios are mostly based on giving the plant a solution thats roughly balanced to what they'll need throughout their lifetime. Honestly IMO the N/K ratio could be whatever, if you change the solution out often you wont have either N/K drop below like.. 50ppm.

    From now on I'm considering N/K my biggest variance allowed in the rez (and ph adjusters ultimately). Everything else should be sorta dialed in, but N/K should just be between like... 50-200ppm. I'm only really worrying about that so I can change my rez less often and just go by the readings from my EC pen.
     
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  20.  
    churchhaze

    churchhaze Well-Known Member

    Yes
     
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