DIY Organic Soil - making do with what we got...

AlcoholicO

AlcoholicO

Active Member
I'm situated in a part of the world, where we can't readily get our hands on most of the products that are available elsewhere and I want to make a good solid organic soil, if possible perhaps even a super soil of sorts.
So what is available around here? Not much at all, except for various dodgy chemical based fertilizer . . .

What I've found so far:
Bat Guano (no name, found in clear bags at nurseries and no idea of NPK!)
Worm Castings (delivered by a local company until we can get our own worm farm up and running)
Unofficial test: Moisture Content (%) 42.6%, Total Nitrogen (N) 1.84%, Total Phosphor (P2O4) 4.03%, Total Potassium (K2O4) 2.86%
Perlite (large bags, no name)
Vermiculite (large bags, no name)

What I can presumably make:
Bone Meal -> animal bones from dinner, dried and cleaned by ants in the sun outside, then dried till bone dry and then we make a bone BBQ when the neighbors are burning trash anyhow (I no got oven) and with a mortar pestle setup, pulverize it . . .
Blood Meal -> Animal blood, dried and heated/baked to a dark red powder.
Kelp/Fish -> not sure here...
Minerals -> again not sure here...
PROPORTIONS and Recipe for making a decent soil with these ingredients - feel free to suggest.

I did one transplant and in the new pot, used 6 cups worm castings, with 5 cups perlite and half a cup vermiculite plus a cup of dried cow poop (I think it was) and one and a half cup bat guano.

Any help and suggestions are very welcome . . .
 
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farsb

farsb

Member
Base soil 1/3 OF EACH
50/50 peat/coco
Worm castings
Perlite/vermiculite

Ammendment 1/2 cup per c.f approx 7.5 gallons

Bat guano
Bone meal
Blood meal
Kelp meal
Alfalfa meal if you can find it
4 cups per c.f of rock dusts
 
AlcoholicO

AlcoholicO

Active Member
farsb said:
Base soil 1/3 OF EACH
50/50 peat/coco
Worm castings
Perlite/vermiculite

Ammendment 1/2 cup per c.f approx 7.5 gallons

Bat guano
Bone meal
Blood meal
Kelp meal
Alfalfa meal if you can find it
4 cups per c.f of rock dusts
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farsb - thank you very much :)

HOWEVER, as it stands right now, I cannot get my hands on Peat Moss, nor have I found Coco Peat, despite the fact that there are coconuts and coconut palms everywhere around here. I do have a good friend arriving in three days from Europe and he's bringing me some Coco Peat, which means I can try out your recipe.
HOWEVER, that's not useful to me for more than a few plants, so either I need to figure out how to make my own Coco Peat (I don't think there is any Peat Moss in this country, it's tropical) or find some kind of substitute for it.
How much Vermiculite versus Perlite do you use? In the beginning I tried 50/50, but found I needed a lot more Perlite in my mix . . .
Would it be possible to add more Perlite and maybe something else too?
E.g. Perlite I can get fairly cheap and coco peat I have to ship in from overseas (that would be 25$+ just in shipment).
 
farsb

farsb

Member
If you are unable to get coco or peat, I would suggest a good pre made soil mix and then amend with your ingredients. With the pre made soil you will obviously not need the perlite or vermiculite, unless you wanted to add some for better air circulation and drainage. Best of luck with whatever you have to use.
 
AlcoholicO

AlcoholicO

Active Member
Thank you for the suggestion and forgive me for sounding harsh, but if I had access to good pre made soil mix, I wouldn't be writing here. There is no such thing as branded pre made soil here, so it's home made local stuff in tied up cement bags and so far I've only found bags of ashes or manure looking stuff (I'm guessing cow or Elephant, but I'm not sure).
It has to be 100% Do-It-Yourself and so far I haven't found a useful recipe for turning a coconut husks strands into coco coir.

That being said, I've found a place that may have coco coir and I'm visiting it tomorrow, crossing my fingers . . .
 
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A

aviva1964

Member
AlcoholicO said:
I'm situated in a part of the world, where we can't readily get our hands on most of the products that are available elsewhere and I want to make a good solid organic soil, if possible perhaps even a super soil of sorts.
So what is available around here? Not much at all, except for various dodgy chemical based fertilizer . . .

What I've found so far:
Bat Guano (no name, found in clear bags at nurseries and no idea of NPK!)
Worm Castings (delivered by a local company until we can get our own worm farm up and running)
Unofficial test: Moisture Content (%) 42.6%, Total Nitrogen (N) 1.84%, Total Phosphor (P2O4) 4.03%, Total Potassium (K2O4) 2.86%
Perlite (large bags, no name)
Vermiculite (large bags, no name)

What I can presumably make:
Bone Meal -> animal bones from dinner, dried and cleaned by ants in the sun outside, then dried till bone dry and then we make a bone BBQ when the neighbors are burning trash anyhow (I no got oven) and with a mortar pestle setup, pulverize it . . .
Blood Meal -> Animal blood, dried and heated/baked to a dark red powder.
Kelp/Fish -> not sure here...
Minerals -> again not sure here...
PROPORTIONS and Recipe for making a decent soil with these ingredients - feel free to suggest.

I did one transplant and in the new pot, used 6 cups worm castings, with 5 cups perlite and half a cup vermiculite plus a cup of dried cow poop (I think it was) and one and a half cup bat guano.

Any help and suggestions are very welcome . . .
Click to expand...
I'm not an experienced MMJ grower, but I do make my own soil for the greenhouse and my vegetables are tremndous!

If you can't get peat, try to find composited horse manure. If you find a horse owner you just fill a bucket with desiccated horse manure - if it crumbles in your hands it's ready. It's much lower in nitrogen than cow or chicken (or guano) but it's highly fibrous and will build soil texture and moisture retention and well as provide a home for beneficial microbes. Just don't use it fresh!
 
AlcoholicO

AlcoholicO

Active Member
aviva1964 said:
I'm not an experienced MMJ grower, but I do make my own soil for the greenhouse and my vegetables are tremndous!

If you can't get peat, try to find composited horse manure. If you find a horse owner you just fill a bucket with desiccated horse manure - if it crumbles in your hands it's ready. It's much lower in nitrogen than cow or chicken (or guano) but it's highly fibrous and will build soil texture and moisture retention and well as provide a home for beneficial microbes. Just don't use it fresh!
Click to expand...
I might get Coco Coir today, HOWEVER, it's interesting to see that you can use horse manure. The problems with the cow manure (and I'm guessing here, as I don't see the actual animal and there's no writing on the bag - it's a cement bag reused)...
One problem I have with it, is that some of it is in large pieces and while they're super light, they're also quite hard to cur into pieces.
I hear that's also where the red worm wrigglers/tiger worms like to hang out in real life, when they're not working at a farm :)

Good to have an alternative :)

I figure cow manure and chicken shit then is for when you want the high Nitrogen content only or at the least preferably.


thegreenbull said:
http://buildasoil.com/collections/all-visible-products/products/pure-worm-castings try these guys they ship free on all orders not sure about overseas shipment but they are friendly and knowledgeable
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They ship vermicompost primarily and that's just silly to ship from the US, which is in a different world for me entirely (e.g. shipping a liter of fluid from the states comes to around 30$).
I HAVE vermicompost already - high quality (1.84 - 4.03 - 2.86). It's 50 cents/Kilo, if I get 40Kg bags . . .
Having my own worm farm though, is the aim . . .

In fact, if you've read this thread I don't quite understand why the link to that shop, since it's fairly useless - is it simply an advertisement? Then it's in the wrong section . . .
 
thegreenbull

thegreenbull

Member
AlcoholicO said:
I might get Coco Coir today, HOWEVER, it's interesting to see that you can use horse manure. The problems with the cow manure (and I'm guessing here, as I don't see the actual animal and there's no writing on the bag - it's a cement bag reused)...
One problem I have with it, is that some of it is in large pieces and while they're super light, they're also quite hard to cur into pieces.
I hear that's also where the red worm wrigglers/tiger worms like to hang out in real life, when they're not working at a farm :)

Good to have an alternative :)

I figure cow manure and chicken shit then is for when you want the high Nitrogen content only or at the least preferably.




They ship vermicompost primarily and that's just silly to ship from the US, which is in a different world for me entirely (e.g. shipping a liter of fluid from the states comes to around 30$).
I HAVE vermicompost already - high quality (1.84 - 4.03 - 2.86). It's 50 cents/Kilo, if I get 40Kg bags . . .
Having my own worm farm though, is the aim . . .

In fact, if you've read this thread I don't quite understand why the link to that shop, since it's fairly useless - is it simply an advertisement? Then it's in the wrong section . . .
Click to expand...
:finger:
 
AlcoholicO

AlcoholicO

Active Member
thegreenbull said:
:finger:
Click to expand...
Chill and :eyesmoke:
I didn't mean anything by it, just that while they may be very useful to others, for the exact purpose of vermicast, I don't need them, plus they probably don't ship over here and hence not so much relevance as I see it, that's all - nothing to get all angry about...
 
thegreenbull

thegreenbull

Member
Not angry in the least bit I read your post about not having certain amendments not being readily available so being the good guy I am I simply offered what I thought might be fruitful info :bigjoint:
 
Balvtr

Balvtr

Active Member
Start making a big pile of leaves. Keep it moist, I cover mine with cardboard here in Texas since it gets so hot and dry. It will take 6 months to a year before you can use it, but leaf mold is an excellent replacement for peat or coco. I'd say it's even better, actually.
 
SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
Yes if you can composted chicken manure it is a great fertilizer for MJ in the growth phase and in early flower. Good to have as much variety as possible in the mix.
 
SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
Does the bat guano you found have little bits of insects in it? If so it is insectivorous and another good source of N fertilizer. If it is from fruit bats, high in P.
 
FresnoFarmer

FresnoFarmer

Well-Known Member
There is no forest land or heavy wooded areas nearby where you can go scavenge up some good by topsoil/humus from? Then just mix perlite and other amendments with that and you're good to go. Composted horse manure is good for making heavy clay soils drain better. Not sure how safe your blood meal is though. What animal did it come from? Store bought blood meal is processed in a way that kills disease to make it safe for horticultural use. Also bat guano can be ridden with disease if not pasteurized.
 
AlcoholicO

AlcoholicO

Active Member
thegreenbull said:
Not angry in the least bit I read your post about not having certain amendments not being readily available so being the good guy I am I simply offered what I thought might be fruitful info :bigjoint:
Click to expand...
Well, they've got a lot of interesting stuff that I'd like to try, but shipment here, if they have that, would be more expensive than the items themselves. Checking their shop made me think about making my own crustacean and/or fish meal . . .

Balvtr said:
Start making a big pile of leaves. Keep it moist, I cover mine with cardboard here in Texas since it gets so hot and dry. It will take 6 months to a year before you can use it, but leaf mold is an excellent replacement for peat or coco. I'd say it's even better, actually.
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I had no idea - I mean it kind of makes sense that partially composted leaves would be useful and it would also provide some food for any worms that may be coming into the pot with the vermicast. However, 6 months is a bit too long, especially right now . . .
We do have quite a few Mango trees and they do collectively drop a lot of leaves, but the waiting makes it hard...

SupraSPL said:
Does the bat guano you found have little bits of insects in it? If so it is insectivorous and another good source of N fertilizer. If it is from fruit bats, high in P.
Click to expand...
Nopes or at least not as far as I've seen. I figure they must be fruit bats (same bats in Thailand, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Malaysia and Myanmar and of a small size judging from the poop) and if that's then high on P, they should be useful for plants in bloom, though I've also added them to vegging plants (but then I only just got this info).

FresnoFarmer said:
There is no forest land or heavy wooded areas nearby where you can go scavenge up some good by topsoil/humus from? Then just mix perlite and other amendments with that and you're good to go. Composted horse manure is good for making heavy clay soils drain better. Not sure how safe your blood meal is though. What animal did it come from? Store bought blood meal is processed in a way that kills disease to make it safe for horticultural use. Also bat guano can be ridden with disease if not pasteurized.
Click to expand...
There is no forest or heavy wooded area around here, unless you count jungle (tropical climate we've got an average 30 degree Celsius or more here all year).
Everything within a very large radius of any road has sadly been felled years ago and even in "protected" nature reserves, you rarely see trees that are older than 5 years. If I get on a dirt bike and leave the normal trails and roads, it'd still take me half a day to get to any kind of proper jungle and I don't know what kind of soil would be there. I'm thinking IF I spent 4-6 hours I MIGHT be able to find something useful and get it back - e.g. 50Kg (doubt I could get more on the bike than that if completely off-road).
I might be able to get horse manure or elephant manure, but I would likely get it fresh and have to compost it myself . . .
The Bat Guano is bought from local plant nurseries and it is probably not pasteurized would be my best guess, but I really don't know - it's not branded whatsoever. Blood meal I could get from blood from chicken, beef or pork, from a butcher and intended for cooking - I figure that should be safe. The same goes for bones for bonemeal.
There is no such thing as store bought bone or blood meal here as far as I've seen...

I'm off to hunt for coco coir/peat and if that fails (yet again) I'd try some of the alternatives here I guess...
 
FresnoFarmer

FresnoFarmer

Well-Known Member
The jungle should have rich topsoil full of nutrients and minerals. Composted horse manure shouldnt be hard to access. Some ppl just throw there horse poo in a pile and let it rot until they can go dump it or somebody aquires about it. I feel you on the shipping costing more than the products. Best of luck to you man.
 
AlcoholicO

AlcoholicO

Active Member
FresnoFarmer said:
The jungle should have rich topsoil full of nutrients and minerals. Composted horse manure shouldnt be hard to access. Some ppl just throw there horse poo in a pile and let it rot until they can go dump it or somebody aquires about it. I feel you on the shipping costing more than the products. Best of luck to you man.
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The problem with the "jungle" here is that they do the classic burn and remove and then they turn the area into rice fields. If there are trees of a certain age, they get valuable and cut down - it's not that I don't understand it, since a lot of people are starving and what not, but it makes it a hard and long off-road trip to get to proper jungle for a backpack full of topsoil . . .

There are hardly any horses here, since they started using motor vehicles (mostly sub 100cc shit bikes that are 20-50 years old and very polluting). I did see a few in the countryside though, used for transporting goods, but the reality here is that there are a lot more Elephants than horses for example, but I will try.
 
AlcoholicO

AlcoholicO

Active Member
Coco Coir I finally found it!

However, it's basically just the husk they hand you, so making it useful would entail something like cutting smaller pieces and probably treat them. At least I can get the Raw coco coir now, so that's a step closer...
 
DonPetro

DonPetro

Well-Known Member
AlcoholicO said:
Coco Coir I finally found it!

However, it's basically just the husk they hand you, so making it useful would entail something like cutting smaller pieces and probably treat them. At least I can get the Raw coco coir now, so that's a step closer...
Click to expand...
You may want to wash/rinse it thoroughly.
 
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