Do I need to cut Roots Organic 707?

Jah348 said:

I just called my local garden center to ask about what soil they had. I always wanted Roots Organic, but haven't heard about the 707 variety yet. The woman on the phone had said that I should cut it with promix or something of the like, because it can be too intense for younger plants. It's too strong and would result in nute burn. My problem with cutting it with something else is that it would ruin the point of getting organic soil in the first place, am I right? So is cutting 707 with something else really necessary?

(better yet is there a different (better) soil that you would recommend)

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Jah348 said:

That sounds like a complicated method to avoid an extremely cheap expense....

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Jah348 said:

That sounds like a complicated method to avoid an extremely cheap expense....

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Jah348 said:

I just called my local garden center to ask about what soil they had. I always wanted Roots Organic, but haven't heard about the 707 variety yet. The woman on the phone had said that I should cut it with promix or something of the like, because it can be too intense for younger plants. It's too strong and would result in nute burn. My problem with cutting it with something else is that it would ruin the point of getting organic soil in the first place, am I right? So is cutting 707 with something else really necessary?

(better yet is there a different (better) soil that you would recommend)

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ZoBudd said:

I used Roots 707 for 2 grows and it worked fine. I wouldn't use it to start seeds or root clones. but I transplanted 2 week old seedlings into it with no problem.

An alternative to Roots 707 is Fox Farms Happy Frog.

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Jah348 said:

I take it we're all in different leagues here.Nutes are the only thing that I add to my soil. I require roughly 6 gal of soil, and don't know of where to get any of the ingredients you guys are talking about. Pattahabi I have literally never heard of the ingredients you're mentioning; if you made those words up I would have no idea. Maybe someday I'll make a bit of a concoction but for now I just want bagged soil that i put straight into the pot.

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hyroot said:

down to earth makes all those nutes from the cootz mix. Or any nursery should have them in stock too. I use the same nutes. Check the recycled organic living soil thread at the top of this organic section. It's a sticky thread.

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Pattahabi said:

Just a side note, be careful with Down to Earth products. They don't actually make anything, they are just a repacker. I also noticed some of their ingredients are not omri or usda organic listed. While you could certainly use some in a pinch, by all means source better if you can.

Hands down, neem products from neemresource.com. DTE version is not comparable.

P-

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hyroot said:

dte is a family owned business out of oregon. Their truckers are even family. I don't know anything about repacking. Thats what I've used. Omri doesn't mean anything. You can buy an omri rating.

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rrog

My bad – I failed to consider that there are companies re-packing the Acadian Seaplants’ material under their labels – that’s how the fertilizer industry works. That’s kelp meal under Epsoma’s label.

Down-To-Earth also has a box with their label and I believe Dr. Earth and I’m sure others that distribute in specific geographical areas. For example, Epsoma is a fairly new arrival to the PNW but I’d seen the name pop up for several years. The brand name on a bag of any fertilizer sold at the retail level is meaningless – they all source from 2 major brokers and almost no one packs their own. It’s all out-sourced to a handful of companies which has been the industry standard going back to the 1920′s, i.e. it’s not a new business model.

As long as the label reads “Kelp Meal” then you have the correct product. The other identifier is Ascophyllum nodosum which is the Botanical name for the species of kelp harvested and processed by Maxicrop & Acadian Seaplants.

Maxicrop packs straight kelp meal and is available but it comes at a higher price over Acadian Seaplants due to transportation charges getting it to the East Coast from Norway. Both companies harvest the same species from the North Atlantic – Maxicrop built their plant in Norway 62 years ago and Acadian Seaplants began operations in 1981.

The Seaweed Site – the most comprehensive web site I could find on marine algae: species, comparing differences between brown, green and red seaweeds, etc.

CC

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Pattahabi said:

I hear ya on the omri. Trust me, DTE don't mine their own azomite and don't dry their own kelp. The one thing I noticed is their box of alfalfa meal has no certification at all. That tends to worry me a bit.

P-

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hyroot said:

none of the companies dry their own kelp. It all comes from the Norwegian sea. It's a bunch of farmer / fisherman that do it.

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RE: Epsoma

All and I mean all dry fertilizers are packed by a handful of companies. This isn't anything new as it goes back over 90 years, i.e. it's standard practice. The cost of setting up a mixing operation for fertilizers requires a huge expense relative to air quality, worker safety, etc.

The packing houses source their materials through Wilbur-Ellis which grosses over $1 billion a year. They sell the various ingredients for both organic and conventional fertilizers. So the name on the box or bag doesn't really make much of a difference.

The other thing to consider perhaps is that unlike processed foods where the list of ingredients are in the order of the quantity of a specific ingredient as it should be. Fertilizers are not required to list things in this order - doesn't matter. So if 'organic alfalfa meal' is a barn burner then that will be at the top of the listing and so on.

Here's another way they dick around with these labels and I'll use Langbeinite as a good example. This mineral compound was discovered in Germany in 1891 and is named for A. Langbein who discovered and identified this material. Not untypical for the late 19th Century.

It is mined in the Upper Midwest around the Great Lakes and the company that controls this is K-MAG and that is the name they use for commercial and wholesale customers. Then a few years ago they set up a company for the retail market called Sul-Po-Mag which you might have seen in a dry fertilizer mix. Okay - that's all cool and stuff.

But chemists don't want all of this malarkey - they want to call it what it is which is Sulfate of Potash Magnesia (Sulfur, Potash and Magnesium) - think Epsom salts with a big hit of Potash - LMAO!!!

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