Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
Not accusation, that was a joke.
Sorry bro, again i assumed you knew what i was referencing. In scientology, mastery of "MatterEnergySpaceTime" (always delivered like that, with no spaces, commas or conjunctions) or the acronym MEST is the ultimate goal of auditing and "the bridge" once a scientologist achieves "Mest", they move beyond the "Operating Thetan" level and cross "the Bridge" to join L.Ron Hubbard and become godlike superbeings (no joke). Not that theres anything wrong with that. I believe in the freedom of Science Fiction.
Again im not arguing that quantum theory and it's adherents are wrong, nor that newton's mechanical universe is absolutely correct, I'm not arguing anything, except possibly, that the "magnetized quantum water machine" is bullshit. I have never been able to grasp the concepts laid out by quantum theorists, because it seems contradictory.
Electrons do have mass, when at rest, (yet nothing is ever at rest, due to gravity acceleration, and big bang inertia) or when they are a part of the electron shell
However...
Electrons not at rest have no mass (which would seem to include all electrons at all times), yet still retain inertia , the power to exert force on matter and still react to gravity.
These are to my understanding mutually exclusive statements.
I have as much trouble understanding how this can all be true, as i do accepting the premise of an all powerful benevolent god who demands faith, and sacrifices, but is for some reason unwilling to reveal himself to anyone who is not either 2000 years dead, insane, or a televangelist. In fact, reading the various laymens guides to Kip Thorne's theories, I was left with even more questions.
If gravity draws everything (including light, and electromagnetic energy) towards it's source, then to every outside observer, the space would appear warped. But alteration of perception and measurement does not, necessarily, mean alteration of the phenomenon itself. The perceived warping of space could just as logically be a warping of our perception of space, while the area in question is actually unaffected. Since space is generally considered empty of matter, there is nothing in empty space to warp. introducing matter or energy to the space to measure it, would by definition measure only the energy or matter introduced, not the space itself. thus anything measured in a gravity field would be effected by the field, and thus the measurement would be altered.
example: A boat at sea moves closer to the shore.
without fixed frames of reference we cannot say what has happened.
did the boat move through the relativistically motionless water towards the stationary shore?
did the boat remain relativistically motionless, but the ocean it sits in moved closer to the stationary shore?
did the boat and water remain relativistically motionless, while the shore moved closer to the boat?
did some or all of the actors move just a little bit?
quantum theory seems to take an all of the above but none of the above Zen Buddhist approach to the matter of matter energy space and time.
I must disagree with one point emphatically, time does exist. only human perception of time changes. in your doctor's office example, 5 real minutes in a waiting room may seem like 7 hours, but when you get home, your clocks all still agree about the time. In the famous space traveling twin example of relativistic time dilation, one twin experiences more time than the other, but the old twin's time is the same as the rest of the relativistically matched universe. If i miss 15 minutes of Matlock fixing a flat tire, the episode continued to run while i was delayed. It didnt stop existing because i wasnt watching.
thats why im asking. You may not get my jokes, but i'm not trying to rustle your jimmies. im just askin questions.
Sorry bro, again i assumed you knew what i was referencing. In scientology, mastery of "MatterEnergySpaceTime" (always delivered like that, with no spaces, commas or conjunctions) or the acronym MEST is the ultimate goal of auditing and "the bridge" once a scientologist achieves "Mest", they move beyond the "Operating Thetan" level and cross "the Bridge" to join L.Ron Hubbard and become godlike superbeings (no joke). Not that theres anything wrong with that. I believe in the freedom of Science Fiction.
Again im not arguing that quantum theory and it's adherents are wrong, nor that newton's mechanical universe is absolutely correct, I'm not arguing anything, except possibly, that the "magnetized quantum water machine" is bullshit. I have never been able to grasp the concepts laid out by quantum theorists, because it seems contradictory.
Electrons do have mass, when at rest, (yet nothing is ever at rest, due to gravity acceleration, and big bang inertia) or when they are a part of the electron shell
However...
Electrons not at rest have no mass (which would seem to include all electrons at all times), yet still retain inertia , the power to exert force on matter and still react to gravity.
These are to my understanding mutually exclusive statements.
I have as much trouble understanding how this can all be true, as i do accepting the premise of an all powerful benevolent god who demands faith, and sacrifices, but is for some reason unwilling to reveal himself to anyone who is not either 2000 years dead, insane, or a televangelist. In fact, reading the various laymens guides to Kip Thorne's theories, I was left with even more questions.
If gravity draws everything (including light, and electromagnetic energy) towards it's source, then to every outside observer, the space would appear warped. But alteration of perception and measurement does not, necessarily, mean alteration of the phenomenon itself. The perceived warping of space could just as logically be a warping of our perception of space, while the area in question is actually unaffected. Since space is generally considered empty of matter, there is nothing in empty space to warp. introducing matter or energy to the space to measure it, would by definition measure only the energy or matter introduced, not the space itself. thus anything measured in a gravity field would be effected by the field, and thus the measurement would be altered.
example: A boat at sea moves closer to the shore.
without fixed frames of reference we cannot say what has happened.
did the boat move through the relativistically motionless water towards the stationary shore?
did the boat remain relativistically motionless, but the ocean it sits in moved closer to the stationary shore?
did the boat and water remain relativistically motionless, while the shore moved closer to the boat?
did some or all of the actors move just a little bit?
quantum theory seems to take an all of the above but none of the above Zen Buddhist approach to the matter of matter energy space and time.
I must disagree with one point emphatically, time does exist. only human perception of time changes. in your doctor's office example, 5 real minutes in a waiting room may seem like 7 hours, but when you get home, your clocks all still agree about the time. In the famous space traveling twin example of relativistic time dilation, one twin experiences more time than the other, but the old twin's time is the same as the rest of the relativistically matched universe. If i miss 15 minutes of Matlock fixing a flat tire, the episode continued to run while i was delayed. It didnt stop existing because i wasnt watching.
thats why im asking. You may not get my jokes, but i'm not trying to rustle your jimmies. im just askin questions.