Do you think James Clapper (Director of NSA) should be prosecuted for perjury?

Do you think James Clapper (Director of NSA) should be prosecuted for perjury?


  • Total voters
    11

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
False testimony to Congress on NSA surveillance programs

On March 12, 2013, during a United States Senate Select Committee on Intelligence hearing, Senator Ron Wyden quoted the keynote speech at the 2012 DEF CON by the director of the NSA, Keith B. Alexander. Alexander had stated that "Our job is foreign intelligence" and that "Those who would want to weave the story that we have millions or hundreds of millions of dossiers on people, is absolutely false… From my perspective, this is absolute nonsense." Wyden then asked Director Clapper, "Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?" He responded, "No, sir." Wyden asked "It does not." and Clapper said "Not wittingly. There are cases where they could inadvertently perhaps collect, but not wittingly." Notably, while making these statements, he hid his face behind his hand and rubbed his forehead, appearing uncomfortable. Many[who?] have noted that his body language was clearly suspicious, and may have indicated untruthfulness.

On June 6, 2013 Director Clapper released a statement admitting the NSA collects telephony metadata on millions of Americans telephone calls. This metadata information included originating and terminating telephone number, telephone calling card number, International Mobile Station Equipment Identity (IMEI) number, time, and duration of phone calls, but did not include the name, address or financial information of any subscriber.

On Sunday June 7, 2013, in an interview with Andrea Mitchell on NBC, Clapper said that he had chosen "I thought was the most truthful or least most untruthful manner" when he testified. On June 12, 2013, United States House of Representatives member Justin Amash became the first Congressman to openly accuse Director Clapper of criminal perjury, and calling for his resignation. In a series of tweets he stated: "It now appears clear that the director of national intelligence, James Clapper, lied under oath to Congress and the American people," and "Perjury is a serious crime ... [and] Clapper should resign immediately," Senator Rand Paul said "The director of national intelligence, in March, did directly lie to Congress, which is against the law."

On June 27, 2013 a group of 26 senators sent him a complaint letter opposing the use of a "body of secret law". On July 1, 2013, Clapper issued an apology, saying that "My response was clearly erroneous – for which I apologize." On July 2, Clapper said that he had forgotten about the Patriot Act and therefore had given an "erroneous" answer.

The journalist Glenn Greenwald accused the media in the U.S. of focusing on Edward Snowden instead of focusing on wrongdoing by Clapper and other U.S. officials. Jody Westby of Forbes argued that due to the revelations, the American public should ask Clapper to resign from office, arguing that "Not only did Mr. Clapper give false testimony to Congress, even his June 6 statement was false. We now know — since the companies identified by the Washington Post have started fessing up — that lots more than telephony metadata has been collected and searched." Fred Kaplan of Slate also advocated having Clapper fired, arguing "if President Obama really welcomes an open debate on this subject, James Clapper has disqualified himself from participation in it. He has to go." Andy Greenberg of Forbes said that NSA officials along with Clapper, in the years 2012 and 2013 "publicly denied–often with carefully hedged words–participating in the kind of snooping on Americans that has since become nearly undeniable." John Dean, former White House Counsel for President Nixon, has claimed that it is unlikely Clapper would be charged with the three principal criminal statutes that address false statements to Congress: perjury, obstruction of Congress, and making false statements. David Sirota of Salon said that if the U.S. government fails to treat Clapper and Alexander in the same way as it did Roger Clemens, "the message from the government would be that lying to Congress about baseball is more of a felony than lying to Congress about Americans’ Fourth Amendment rights" and that the "message would declare that when it comes to brazen law-breaking, as long as you are personally connected to the president, you get protection rather than the prosecution you deserve."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Clapper#False_testimony_to_Congress_on_NSA_surveillance_programs
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
What is the penalty for lying to a Congressional Committee?
5 years in federal prison;

(1) having taken an oath before a competent tribunal, officer, or person, in any case in which a law of the United States authorizes an oath to be administered, that he will testify, declare, depose, or certify truly, or that any written testimony, declaration, deposition, or certificate by him subscribed, is true, willfully and contrary to such oath states or subscribes any material matter which he does not believe to be true; or

(2) in any declaration, certificate, verification, or statement under penalty of perjury as permitted under section 1746 of title 28, United States Code, willfully subscribes as true any material matter which he does not believe to be true;

is guilty of perjury and shall, except as otherwise expressly provided by law, be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both. This section is applicable whether the statement or subscription is made within or without the United States.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1621
 

ricky1lung

Well-Known Member
Nothing will be done, aside from trying to hush any noise, discredit opposition, and
some more fabricated events designed to portray an illusion of keeping the US safe.

On a side note:

I just read this morning that Obama is cutting economic aid to Egypt but leaving military aid intact.

Now, for me this is about respecting democracy and Egyptians.
The US admin will not admit it was a coup, so they could continue funding. Now they are completely disregarding Egypt's democracy.

The country voted in the brotherhood so let them vote them back out instead of supporting a military coup.

Really, this sh!t is getting strange. The U.S a global force promoting democracy and fighting for it just turns a blind eye and supports the Egyptian army.
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
Nothing will be done, aside from trying to hush any noise, discredit opposition, and
some more fabricated events designed to portray an illusion of keeping the US safe.

On a side note:

I just read this morning that Obama is cutting economic aid to Egypt but leaving military aid intact.

Now, for me this is about respecting democracy and Egyptians.
The US admin will not admit it was a coup, so they could continue funding. Now they are completely disregarding Egypt's democracy.

The country voted in the brotherhood so let them vote them back out instead of supporting a military coup.

Really, this sh!t is getting strange. The U.S a global force promoting democracy and fighting for it just turns a blind eye and supports the Egyptian army.
Who said that but the Anti-Cons?

The Press props everything up so then can knock it down. That is just High Tone rhetoric mainly for children and childish church ladies.

If you believe it, you simply fell for it. I don't. Like I said, WE are playing S'hia against Sunni against Europe against Africa.

And the coup was by the Brotherhood. Stole the election by force in the neighborhoods with terror. The Army, hopefully, will take care of the Brotherhood. See to it, as we say. And then have better elections.

It is not what you think. Obama had Hillary go over there and tell the Military to tell Hama what was what. I doubt she spent much time with Morsi, at all.

Rockets stop. But, Morsi jambs ahead and jacks the Constitution with more terror moves.

The Army, in Egypt is the de facto Constitutional Protection of the People, for Real. They will hunt the MB like dogs now.

Nothing at all good about this except the Military trained by the USA to protect millions of Egyptians. And to call it democracy is to call the Reich a democracy. Hitler and Sadam always won their elections.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Nothing will be done, aside from trying to hush any noise, discredit opposition, and
some more fabricated events designed to portray an illusion of keeping the US safe.

On a side note:

I just read this morning that Obama is cutting economic aid to Egypt but leaving military aid intact.

Now, for me this is about respecting democracy and Egyptians.
The US admin will not admit it was a coup, so they could continue funding. Now they are completely disregarding Egypt's democracy.

The country voted in the brotherhood so let them vote them back out instead of supporting a military coup.

Really, this sh!t is getting strange. The U.S a global force promoting democracy and fighting for it just turns a blind eye and supports the Egyptian army.

The U.S. IS a global force, fighting not for people to have self determination, rather for the interests of those that hold the reins of power.

Democracy and freedom are at opposite ends of the spectrum.
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
5 years in federal prison;

(1) having taken an oath before a competent tribunal, officer, or person, in any case in which a law of the United States authorizes an oath to be administered, that he will testify, declare, depose, or certify truly, or that any written testimony, declaration, deposition, or certificate by him subscribed, is true, willfully and contrary to such oath states or subscribes any material matter which he does not believe to be true; or

(2) in any declaration, certificate, verification, or statement under penalty of perjury as permitted under section 1746 of title 28, United States Code, willfully subscribes as true any material matter which he does not believe to be true;

is guilty of perjury and shall, except as otherwise expressly provided by law, be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both. This section is applicable whether the statement or subscription is made within or without the United States.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1621
Really? Oh, I guess I was thinking of Contempt. The problem here is the truth is known to the Congress. So, his cover is he was trying to stay truthful in the public hearing. He was getting trick questions that everyone knew were trick, but us. The Committee was playing gotcha. Stupid. No foul here.

Besides, the President has full power of Pardon.

Has anyone stopped to think about what that really means?

Why is that in there? Why is the President beyond the Law, on Purpose in the Docs?
 

ricky1lung

Well-Known Member
Who said that but the Anti-Cons?

The Press props everything up so then can knock it down. That is just High Tone rhetoric mainly for children and childish church ladies.

If you believe it, you simply fell for it. I don't. Like I said, WE are playing S'hia against Sunni against Europe against Africa.

And the coup was by the Brotherhood. Stole the election by force in the neighborhoods with terror. The Army, hopefully, will take care of the Brotherhood. See to it, as we say. And then have better elections.

It is not what you think. Obama had Hillary go over there and tell the Military to tell Hama what was what. I doubt she spent much time with Morsi, at all.

Rockets stop. But, Morsi jambs ahead with jacks the Constitution with more terror moves.

The Army, in Egypt is the de facto Constitutional Protection of the People, for Real. They will hunt the MB like dogs now.


I know, but this one for me is tough to digest, almost certainly because of the latest coalition
revelations of control and deceit.

I agree, it is a staged event with political backing from allies to remove the BH. I see it more as an attempt
of stabilization in the area (Egypt & Israel), but it is much, much bigger than that yet.

I don't buy into the media propaganda or fairies in the sky ,I may have been wrong once before my batting average
is still better than theirs for being closer to accurate. ;)

Ousting a dictator is fine and dandy, I didn't have a problem with Egyptians being able to control who is elected via
elections. However, in this case the army did in fact stage a coup and removed the first democratically elected government
with force and the U.S and her allies are being extremely hypocritical by continuing to finance the operation.
 

ricky1lung

Well-Known Member
The U.S. IS a global force, fighting not for people to have self determination, rather for the interests of those that hold the reins of power.

Democracy and freedom are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

I couldn't agree more..... but careful, that's almost some theorist chit..... ;-)
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
I know, but this one for me is tough to digest, almost certainly because of the latest coalition
revelations of control and deceit.

I agree, it is a staged event with political backing from allies to remove the BH. I see it more as an attempt
of stabilization in the area (Egypt & Israel), but it is much, much bigger than that yet.

I don't buy into the media propaganda or fairies in the sky ,I may have been wrong once before my batting average
is still better than theirs for being closer to accurate. ;)

Ousting a dictator is fine and dandy, I didn't have a problem with Egyptians being able to control who is elected via
elections. However, in this case the army did in fact stage a coup and removed the first democratically elected government
with force and the U.S and her allies are being extremely hypocritical by continuing to finance the operation.
Not if WE decided that the Coup was the false election of the Brotherhood. First into a voting block and then vote in the President and then Jack the Constitution.

And this President won't explain it because he saw what a sad mess Bush was when he tried to be honest with his faking.

The President is legally beyond law. He and only he decides what, if, when, etc, there was a coup.

And if there was one word that describes the Art of War, it is the word Hypocritical.

But, I think they call it Operational Deception, these days.
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
5 years in federal prison;

(1) having taken an oath before a competent tribunal, officer, or person, in any case in which a law of the United States authorizes an oath to be administered, that he will testify, declare, depose, or certify truly, or that any written testimony, declaration, deposition, or certificate by him subscribed, is true, willfully and contrary to such oath states or subscribes any material matter which he does not believe to be true; or

(2) in any declaration, certificate, verification, or statement under penalty of perjury as permitted under section 1746 of title 28, United States Code, willfully subscribes as true any material matter which he does not believe to be true;

is guilty of perjury and shall, except as otherwise expressly provided by law, be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both. This section is applicable whether the statement or subscription is made within or without the United States.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1621
and yet bill clinton remains at large...

laws only apply to the peons, glorious exalted lords of washington have nothing to fear.
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
The U.S. IS a global force, fighting not for people to have self determination, rather for the interests of those that hold the reins of power.

Democracy and freedom are at opposite ends of the spectrum.
democracy is not the polar opposite of freedom, that would be autocracy (kings popes and marxist dictatorships)

democracy is the closest thing to freedom available outside a utopian daydream, and while you may in fact long for the Smurf Village fantasy of "anarcho-____________ism" none of that shit can ever work, since humans are NOT SMURFS, nor are we fancy ponies living in the magical land of Equestria.

democracy's goal is to give as many people as possible as much personal autonomy as possible, within the constraints of a society. Anarcho-____________ism just devolves into Road Warrior or Fallout 3 type REAL anarchy.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
I couldn't agree more..... but careful, that's almost some theorist chit..... ;-)
Well thank you. The USA's Imperialism is pretty hard to deny given the presence of their troops or "advisers" in most parts of the world.

Bringing 'Democracy", is another way they install their hand picked puppets.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
democracy is not the polar opposite of freedom, that would be autocracy (kings popes and marxist dictatorships)

democracy is the closest thing to freedom available outside a utopian daydream, and while you may in fact long for the Smurf Village fantasy of "anarcho-____________ism" none of that shit can ever work, since humans are NOT SMURFS, nor are we fancy ponies living in the magical land of Equestria.

democracy's goal is to give as many people as possible as much personal autonomy as possible, within the constraints of a society. Anarcho-____________ism just devolves into Road Warrior or Fallout 3 type REAL anarchy.
Smurf? You are a funny guy and pretty smart from what I can see. However you are somewhat misinformed.

Seriously, consider reading THE MARKET FOR LIBERTY, most of your concerns are addressed much better in that book than I could here. Your fears of "anarchy and chaos" are logically dispelled in this book.
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
Well thank you. The USA's Imperialism is pretty hard to deny given the presence of their troops or "advisers" in most parts of the world.

Bringing 'Democracy", is another way they install their hand picked puppets.
Exactly. Yes. Very sanguine. We want it fucked up. But, the big adversaies, China, but escpecially Russia at these oil prices are busy fucking with us. Iran know WE need them so they also, and The House of Suad fucks with us because they can.

Rob, when did you get confused about the conduct of nations? It is 100% adversarial at all but the very public levels.

Oh, I know. It shouldn't be. Wake up.
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
He wont get prosecuted at all. When you become a politician you get a *get out of jail* free card.

Worst case scenario he would get fired from his job but since Obama seems almost incapable of firing people he could simply resign and it all goes away...
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
I find it really revealing how the media has handled all this

Focus on Snowden instead of the organization who broke the law

If it wasn't clear to anyone before, this event should show people how the system works against us

American media, de-facto 4th branch of American government.
 

Doer

Well-Known Member
Freedom is too much for 35%. The Anti-Con plan is working. The New C will have much less freedom and it is sure to rule out self rule for good.
 
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