DYNA GRO NUTRIENTS – CONFLICTING NPK RATIOS – HOME BREWER

Hi guys and home brewer! My first post here but I have been reading threads for a very long time here on RIU rather than posting as well! Should have done that then I would have been in a position to PM home brewer directly as most of us would agree home brewer knows his stuff!

Going to try and make this short and concise as possible and would like Home Brewer specifically to reply if possible and that would be greatly appreciated.

Ok so im switching to Dyna Gro nutes after using many others (not GH or AN). Running coco/perlite 70/30 mix in 3 gallon airpots (smart pots). Top feed dripper system - drain to waste. Adjust a wing 750W DE HPS lights.

Environment relatively stable throughout all stages. Reservoir tank outside tent and within right nutrient temps.

using tap water with background EC 0.1 and ph of 6.9 (soft water)

Always Run off about 10% everyday to remove salt build ups

Purchased Foliage Pro, Bloom , MagPro, Protekt, - according to Dyna Gro feed chart these are required for drain to waste (non-nutrient growing media – ie Soiless like coco)

I purchased the above nutes and now have the confusing dilemma on who to follow – the dyna grow feed chart or home brewers recommendations for coco (which I respect a lot)

1. HB has said that he has ran coco in the past and only used FP (or grow) all the way through from veg to flower with no supplements/additives like CalMag or bloom apart from GH floralicous plus as an aroma/flavour enhancer and Proteckt and has gained good results as well as other members have said this too.

NPK ratios for FP is a 9:3:6 (3:1:2) which are recommended for VEG. (or even a 1:1:1 is good)

Now here comes the confusing/conflicting bit for me.

If I follow the dyna feed chart FP is cut out from feeding after 4 weeks into flower and Bloom is used from week 1 until the end of flower.

Bloom is NPK 3:12:6 (1:4:2) which as a general consensus is agreed is a good ratio for flowering (lowering the Nitrogen after the initial Stretch few weeks into flowering) and then maintaining lower levels until harvest.

Now ignoring the dosage levels provided by dyna gro on their feed chart (as this is dependent on environment etc and this will vary from grower to grower) it seems to make sense to me in terms of NPK ratios in VEG and FLOWER. Having a 3:1:2 in VEG (FP) up until the 4th of flower and then the 5th week in flower using the bloom to maintain a 3:12:6 ratio.

Obviously the above feed chart is totally the opposite to what HB has said, which is using FP all the way through VEG and FLOWER (meaning keeping high N levels late into flower – to keep things green) – which again from all the reading i have done and come across as well as studies done that LOWER levels of N in mid to late flower are definitely recommended.

HB has also said that he DOES recommended using the FP AND Bloom but only in PURE HYDRO setups. But I thought Coco is classed as a type of hydro substrate!?

HB reply - “I've never tried hempy buckets so a combo of grow or foliage pro AND bloom could be best for flower. Give it a shot and let us know how it works. In true hydro, I like FP and bloom together in flower. In promix I use FP from start to finish. I've found that the growing method matters in regards to what NPK seems to work best”

So after as you can see I am really confused to which recommendation to go for? The feed chart or HB recommendations?

There was other things I wanted to mention but will leave that for a later date otherwise this gunna get even longer than it is

Look forward to HB reply and anyone who can also jump in and straighten this out for me.

Peace!

PS ATTACHED DYNA GROW FEED CHART

Thank you for making that as short and concise as possible, lol.

I still recommend FP all the way through. You can mess with maybe a 50/50 split of bloom/fp during the last half of flower and see how the plants react? Maybe run a side-by-side and report back. My money would be on the FP plants though.

Also, those feeding levels are outrageous, IMO. Shoot for their recommended dose on the bottle, I think it's like 1/2 tsp at every watering? If you're watering multiple times per day then cut that in half.

I also wouldn't use that magpro unless you're in true hydro.

agree with HB.

FP from start to finish. i supplement with 1g/gal of epsom salt. i think FP is low on Mg.

i think the Bloom is a horrible NPK ratio for cannabis

and the protekt is just Silica which wouldn't hurt at all

lol HB yeah short and concise as possible! you know you get carried away! thanks for your reply HB and rkymtnman. I agree with you that the bloom doesn't seem a right NPK ratio for flower and yeah i was going to follow whats on the bottle instead of feed chart "maintenance dose"

Wonder why they have different figures on feed chart and bottle!

ok looks like FP all the way through then along with Proteckt. Holy shit this is gunna be one simple nute line if it produces results that i am looking for.

HB can i ask thats what you ran when you used coco? just FP all the way through? because you now in Promix. I plan on using the GH floralicous also see what that does. How much and when to start in flower? Would this interact with any Fulvic acids i was using?

And one more thing about Cal Mag - ive read all over the show that coco needs CalMag all the way through due cation exchanges etc. I know the FP has decent Cal in it...maybe low on Mg but do you recommend not using until deficiencies appear?

Cheers in advance guys

and yeah i might actually run one section with 50/50 bloom since i have it now and do a comaprisson. Running Ice Cream Cake (WC x Gelato 33 - seed Junky gentics) and 33rd Degree (Gelato 33 x Platinum - IHG)

GreasyG said:

HB can i ask thats what you ran when you used coco? just FP all the way through? because you now in Promix. I plan on using the GH floralicous also see what that does. How much and when to start in flower? Would this interact with any Fulvic acids i was using?

And one more thing about Cal Mag - ive read all over the show that coco needs CalMag all the way through due cation exchanges etc. I know the FP has decent Cal in it...maybe low on Mg but do you recommend not using until deficiencies appear?

Cheers in advance guys

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Yes, FP all the way through.

I like floralicious plus. I'll start it day 1 of flowering and go up to about the last week.

Calmag. I don't know. I never used it. Calmag is the catch-all solution for all your growing problems, lol.

Thanks HB - hmm Cal Mag looks im going to leave out also, see how they go and add if necessary

Waiting on a few equipment pcs and will be back once shit starts rolling

GreasyG said:

Thanks HB - hmm Cal Mag looks im going to leave out also, see how they go and add if necessary

Waiting on a few equipment pcs and will be back once shit starts rolling

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Keep it close by.

Hey HB, thanks for your input so far, but me being me im still on the fence about using just FP which is effectively a vegging NPK ratio all the way through flower, and not bloom in flower without the FP

Reason for this is the in the following thread in which you have quoted the following and with all due respect it does seem contradictory from what you are saying now.

I have read threads also with other members asking the same thing as to why a “vegging” NPK ratio would be used all the way through flower but it ended up you asking for pictures etc etc – I cannot find the thread or would have linked it here

https://www.rollitup.org/t/dyna-gro-foliage-pro-in-hydro.780706/

you have mentioned here “Foliage Pro might just be the BEST plant food on the market for container gardening BUT when it comes to hydro, I think FP supplies too much N. I've run it straight through before, twice now I think, and the higher amount of N tends to grow leafier, branchier plants. Consider its use for maybe the first week or two of flower to curb stretch, then consider switching to grow/bloom combos until harvest. In veg it's great as it grows structurally superior plants as compared to 'grow' but both are fine really”

Now I know this thread it on HYDRO - this is the reason why I asked you if you consider COCO a type of hydro as it soilless and many people do feed Coco with feeds similar to Hydro?

The above quote of yours is what I has been confusing me , that why use a high N formula all the way through flower - but then you say use it all the way through flower? does the high N content in FP when used in COCO not produce Leafier branchier plants? only in TRUE HYDRO?

The member “stoned drifter” is in coco and using FP for veg and Grow (lower N) for flower

you also quote that “Consider its use for maybe the first week or two of flower to curb stretch” (this is FP course) – if its HIGH in N (which promotes growth) how that going to “curb” stretch?

this is confirmed by the Dyna Gro (see pic ) that a LOWER level of N will “help reduce stem elongation”

Don’t get me wrong HB, respect your input and expertise in 19 off years of growing but from my point of view im still confused as fuck! To use FP all the way through or use Bloom in flower? For the above reasons and as my the thread title! Lol! Conflicting?

I stick by my original response to your question. The quoted thread is for true hydro.

So i guess you dont class Coco as true Hydro? so just to be clear your recommendation on just using FP is based upon your experience growing in coco and not the varying NPK ratios the plant require at different stages of growth which is scientifically proven?

I wonder why Dyno Gro produced Bloom nutes then at NPK 3:12:6 after being in the industry for over 30 years?

Still a head screw for me to decide whether to go with your experience in coco and use FP only or go with what is proven to be the demand for NPK of a plant in flower.

Would be helpful if someone who's grown in coco and only used FP all the way could chime in and show some pics!

GreasyG said:

So i guess you dont class Coco as true Hydro?

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It's not even close to true hydro.

so just to be clear your recommendation on just using FP is based upon your experience growing in coco and not the varying NPK ratios the plant require at different stages of growth which is scientifically proven?

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Proven by whom? Where? Link me to the scientific literature, please.

I wonder why Dyno Gro produced Bloom nutes then at NPK 3:12:6 after being in the industry for over 30 years?

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Because it's easier to sell the public what they want instead of teaching them what they should be buying instead.

Still a head screw for me to decide whether to go with your experience in coco and use FP only or go with what is proven to be the demand for NPK of a plant in flower.

Would be helpful if someone who's grown in coco and only used FP all the way could chime in and show some pics!

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Dude, do it however you want. Run clones from the same mom and do side-by-sides for a few rounds. Take notes and make sure everything else is dialed in first. For a grower to notice the difference between two different fertilizer bottles, they better be operating at a very consistent level to begin with. We're talking about maybe the 4th most important thing here when it comes to gardening. If the first 3 things aren't perfect then it doesn't matter what food you're using.

I know where you coming from man. As far NPK requirements go at diff stages of growth in terms of proof i cannot point to one scientific article to say there it is. This a general accepted "idea" i guess mainly from nutrients companies and general reading i have done over the years.

At the same time i do agree with you saying "Because it's easier to sell the public what they want instead of teaching them what they should be buying instead"

As far as getting everything else dialled in...im good in that department. In fact my set up in terms of equipment allows me to follow and stay within the VPD chart. My genetics are legit also.

Was looking for a more efficient line up of nutes to make the whole process smoother i guess like most growers do and stumbled across Dyna nutes and your threads and here we are! lol!

Its going to be difficult to a side a side by side due to my set up unless i do x1 plant of each which isnt worth the time and wait........well i guess il have to keep an open mind.

Will be back with reports down the line.

Thanks HB

GreasyG said:

Was looking for a more efficient line up of nutes to make the whole process smoother i guess like most growers do and stumbled across Dyna nutes and your threads and here we are!

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Since you haven't tried GH yet, I'd pick up a bottle of Flora Micro and Flora Bloom and a bag of Epsom salts. Try H3AD's formula for Coco as you try Dyna Gro at the same time.

Like @homebrewer said, unless everything else is spot on, nutrients aren't that big a deal in the grand scheme of things. and H3AD's formula is a proven winner for coco.

i tried coco and hated it by the way. i'm back to RDWC for good.

Yeah thanks man i shall may be do a side by side with GH also. Ive always grown in coco and thats what i know, but a change is due soon after this run. I also will try RDWC at some point down the line. You using a DIY? i like the current culture set up with the RDWC.

no, i modified my GH waterfarms in auto-feed drain to waste individual units.

I run the by the feed chart and get excellent results. Try it both ways and see what you like. I did and the feed chart turned out a lot better than just foliage pro or grow by itself.

GreasyG said:

Yeah thanks man i shall may be do a side by side with GH also. Ive always grown in coco and thats what i know, but a change is due soon after this run. I also will try RDWC at some point down the line. You using a DIY? i like the current culture set up with the RDWC.

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I grew commercially in current cultures until a little less than a year ago. We decided the licensing was too expensive and disbanded the grow. I ran both curewnt culture nutrients and GH 3 part with UC Roots (actually pool shock copycat). The cultured solutions put out a little better quality and the GH was rock steady and put out a little more yield. My partner owned hyroponic stores so he got really good deals on the GH nutrients which was the deciding factor.

Nutrient companies arent that big a deal IMO. If you run evwything correctly then the differences are subtle.

I prefer dynagro overall for cost, quality of finshed product and the fact that it mixes at the perfect ph in my tap water. I have also tried botanicare, nectar for the gods, floranova, just foliage pro and protekt, just dynagro grow and protekt, lucas formula, h3ad coco lucas formula, earth juice, osmocote plus and fox farm trio with solubles.

I use a lot of FP in my room for many years (thanks to HB). I always do side by side grows with different nutes. If I grew with one line of nutes I would get too bored. Another variable to consider is that different strains have different nute requirements. Some nute hogs will drink up the FP and some strains may OD on a heavy dose. I only use 3-5 ml/gal of FP. I have never even tried going over 5 ml/gal. The Dynagro feed chart would kill some of my plants. Most of the time my DG plants outperform any other nutes.

I only have one sensitive strain that can't handle FP at 5 ml/gal. I usually go 3 ml all the way through. This time I was feeling bold and gave her 5 ml for a few weeks and got the claw. I had to dust off an old bottle of DG bloom because that was the lowest N stuff I had on hand. The DG bloom hardly ever gets used around here. All other strains I have like the FP all the way through and most handle 5 ml with no problems.

GreasyG I don't know why you can't do some side by side growing to see what will work best for you and ease your mind. We have a ton of threads here of people have troubles in coco. It sounds to me like you are starting out with the deck stacked against you. You say it is all you know so you must have it dialed in better than most. Good luck with the FP, just remember it is potent stuff. If you can dial in a coco grow you should dial in the FP just fine.

I did not know HB likes Floralicious. I always thought those sweetners were a scam. I'll have to look into it.

70's natureboy said:

I use a lot of FP in my room for many years (thanks to HB). I always do side by side grows with different nutes. If I grew with one line of nutes I would get too bored. Another variable to consider is that different strains have different nute requirements. Some nute hogs will drink up the FP and some strains may OD on a heavy dose. I only use 3-5 ml/gal of FP. I have never even tried going over 5 ml/gal. The Dynagro feed chart would kill some of my plants. Most of the time my DG plants outperform any other nutes.

I only have one sensitive strain that can't handle FP at 5 ml/gal. I usually go 3 ml all the way through. This time I was feeling bold and gave her 5 ml for a few weeks and got the claw. I had to dust off an old bottle of DG bloom because that was the lowest N stuff I had on hand. The DG bloom hardly ever gets used around here. All other strains I have like the FP all the way through and most handle 5 ml with no problems.

GreasyG I don't know why you can't do some side by side growing to see what will work best for you and ease your mind. We have a ton of threads here of people have troubles in coco. It sounds to me like you are starting out with the deck stacked against you. You say it is all you know so you must have it dialed in better than most. Good luck with the FP, just remember it is potent stuff. If you can dial in a coco grow you should dial in the FP just fine.

I did not know HB likes Floralicious. I always thought those sweetners were a scam. I'll have to look into it.

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Thanks bro. Appreciate your input. I am actually going to do a side by side. DG nutes are in. 1 gallon FP and Bloom with Protekt in coco drain to waste. Decided im going to only going to do a very small run may be 4 plants to see the difference if any. However ive got all sort of shit turned up to sort out. This little run is going to wait until late Sep time but will be back here posting the grow and side by side.