Ebb & Flow SOG Questions

rbahadosingh

rbahadosingh

Well-Known Member
I have been doing SOG in soil for a while now and i have decided to switch to ebb and flow. Watering all those plants by hand was a damn pain. I have a few questions and am in need of some advice from all you expert hydro growers. I have 4" rockwool cubes i will be using as the media. I plan on doing about 70-80 plants in a 4'x4' tray. Will the 4" rockwool cubes be good eough to use or should i put them on slabs of rockwool or put them in 1 gallon pots filled with hydroton? Also do i just place the cubes in the tray by them self or do i cover them with hydroton or sit them on top of the hydroton? Im confused and dont know if the 4" rockwool will grow a big enough root system. In soil i was using 1 gallon pots and the 4" rockwool is a little smaller. All help is appreciated...
 
W

Wohjew

Well-Known Member
id go with hydroton. 6 mths ago i posted the same question and im glad i chose hydroton. if cloning in RW then plant cube atleast 1 inch above flood line and your good to go . ive never grown in RW, but when using RW it acts like a buffer. so i hear .. hope this helps
 
laserbrn

laserbrn

Well-Known Member
Wohjew said:
id go with hydroton. 6 mths ago i posted the same question and im glad i chose hydroton. if cloning in RW then plant cube atleast 1 inch above flood line and your good to go . ive never grown in RW, but when using RW it acts like a buffer. so i hear .. hope this helps
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Fuck that....70-80 plants in a 4x4 tray. Just use the rockwool. They will be fine and have enough rootspace.

I imagine you are just flowering clones w/o vegging them? I've vegged clones for a month before and flowered them through with 4x4 rockwool cubes. BUT I have vegged for 2 months before and they started to suffer near the end.

Keep it really simple, hydroton makes things more complicated. I JUST picked up another 50l of hydroton for my 3x3 tray. That's going to make 100l of hydroton and a whole lot of fucking washing and cleaning.
 
rbahadosingh

rbahadosingh

Well-Known Member
laserbrn said:
Fuck that....70-80 plants in a 4x4 tray. Just use the rockwool. They will be fine and have enough rootspace.

I imagine you are just flowering clones w/o vegging them?
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well i plan on vegging them for approximately 2 weeks or until they are all about 10" and then flip to flower. I spoke with a guy at the hydro store today and he recommended that i lay down a coco mat on the bottom of the tray and put the 4" rockwool cubes ontop so the roots can continue growing out of the cubes and into the mat so the root system will be bigger. The only down side to that is i wont be able to move the plants around. But i didnt really intend on moving them too much anyway... What you guys think?
 
dirtysteve

dirtysteve

Well-Known Member
Use hydroton in pots. I have 2x3 trays with 23 zero veg clones. Clone in rockwool 1.5"x1.5" cubes then put in the pots with hydroton. Leave the cube 1/2" ABOVE the flood line. Dont let the flood get to the cubes or you could have rot problems. Plants in pots are nice because you can move them around to get the weaker ones more light as needed.
A must read for SOG ebb and flow is https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/6592-get-harvest-every-2-weeks.html Just read Al's posts,he quotes the questions he answers. It is all in there. I am running pretty much the same op as his except half as big. Works very, very well.
 
laserbrn

laserbrn

Well-Known Member
Veggin' only two weeks you'll be fine. I don't think you'll be able to fit 80 clones in a 4x4 vegged for much longer than that.

Check out my last grow journal, it's in my signature. Those plants never left 4" rockwool cubes, no hydroton, just chilling in the cubes.

This grow I'm using the hydroton, I just filled the entire tray and put my rockwool cubes in the hydroton. My veg room just has trays without hydroton that I start my rockwool cubes in.

I'm tell you, you can use hydroton, but it's a waste at that point.
 
curious.george

curious.george

Well-Known Member
rbahadosingh said:
I have been doing SOG in soil for a while now and i have decided to switch to ebb and flow. Watering all those plants by hand was a damn pain. I have a few questions and am in need of some advice from all you expert hydro growers. I have 4" rockwool cubes i will be using as the media. I plan on doing about 70-80 plants in a 4'x4' tray. Will the 4" rockwool cubes be good eough to use or should i put them on slabs of rockwool or put them in 1 gallon pots filled with hydroton? Also do i just place the cubes in the tray by them self or do i cover them with hydroton or sit them on top of the hydroton? Im confused and dont know if the 4" rockwool will grow a big enough root system. In soil i was using 1 gallon pots and the 4" rockwool is a little smaller. All help is appreciated...
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coco coir is the way to go. It is the most like soil but performs as well as any hydro medium. It is also forgiving in times of problems.
 
TheFaux

TheFaux

New Member
rbahadosingh said:
I have been doing SOG in soil for a while now and i have decided to switch to ebb and flow. Watering all those plants by hand was a damn pain. I have a few questions and am in need of some advice from all you expert hydro growers. I have 4" rockwool cubes i will be using as the media. I plan on doing about 70-80 plants in a 4'x4' tray. Will the 4" rockwool cubes be good eough to use or should i put them on slabs of rockwool or put them in 1 gallon pots filled with hydroton? Also do i just place the cubes in the tray by them self or do i cover them with hydroton or sit them on top of the hydroton? Im confused and dont know if the 4" rockwool will grow a big enough root system. In soil i was using 1 gallon pots and the 4" rockwool is a little smaller. All help is appreciated...
Click to expand...
rbahadosingh said:
well i plan on vegging them for approximately 2 weeks or until they are all about 10" and then flip to flower. I spoke with a guy at the hydro store today and he recommended that i lay down a coco mat on the bottom of the tray and put the 4" rockwool cubes ontop so the roots can continue growing out of the cubes and into the mat so the root system will be bigger. The only down side to that is i wont be able to move the plants around. But i didnt really intend on moving them too much anyway... What you guys think?
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With 70-80 plants in a 4'x4', you'll be hating life if you veg at all. ;-)

In my not so humble opinion, Hydroton is the ultimate E&F medium. Rockwool is good for drip or hand-watering (or cloning!), but you don't need anything like it in your tray..... fuck coco mats too! HydrostoreGuy wants your money.

I clone in Rapid Rooters and put those into beds of Hydroton and that's as difficult as it has to be. :peace:
 
laserbrn

laserbrn

Well-Known Member
TheFaux said:
With 70-80 plants in a 4'x4', you'll be hating life if you veg at all. ;-)

In my not so humble opinion, Hydroton is the ultimate E&F medium. Rockwool is good for drip or hand-watering (or cloning!), but you don't need anything like it in your tray..... fuck coco mats too! HydrostoreGuy wants your money.

I clone in Rapid Rooters and put those into beds of Hydroton and that's as difficult as it has to be. :peace:
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Yeah, I agree that any veg on those clones is going to be a fucking disaster with 80 in a 4x4. I would cut that number in half!

And if you don't veg at all than you can do the bed of hydroton, but I keep mine in rockwool while they veg, then move them into the hydroton to flower. BUT, hydroton is kind of a bitch and cleaning it is annoying, especially trying to get all of the roots out.

And no matter what the fucking dust from new hydroton drives me CRAZY. I washed these bitches for SOOOO long and still, my first reservoir already needs to be flushed because it's ph unstable and completely filled with hydroton dust. Going to leave it a week and them dump it, but it's annoying and more work than I would want for so many tiny plants.

Where did you come up with 80 plants in a 4x4 tray? That's never going to work, you have 16 sq feet to work with. That's five plants per square foot....did you think this through?
 
rbahadosingh

rbahadosingh

Well-Known Member
laserbrn said:
Yeah, I agree that any veg on those clones is going to be a fucking disaster with 80 in a 4x4. I would cut that number in half!

And if you don't veg at all than you can do the bed of hydroton, but I keep mine in rockwool while they veg, then move them into the hydroton to flower. BUT, hydroton is kind of a bitch and cleaning it is annoying, especially trying to get all of the roots out.

And no matter what the fucking dust from new hydroton drives me CRAZY. I washed these bitches for SOOOO long and still, my first reservoir already needs to be flushed because it's ph unstable and completely filled with hydroton dust. Going to leave it a week and them dump it, but it's annoying and more work than I would want for so many tiny plants.

Where did you come up with 80 plants in a 4x4 tray? That's never going to work, you have 16 sq feet to work with. That's five plants per square foot....did you think this through?
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when doing soil i do 64 in a 4x4 and they all fit pretty nicely. But being as the 4" rockwool cubes were a little bit smaller than 1 gallon pots i figured i could fit more. and on top of that i have a total of about 90 clones and i dont have anything to do with the extra ones so i figured id just cram as many as i can in there. but now you guys have me double thinking this... Also doesnt hydroton float? how would it work for ebb and flow? wouldnt it just float when the water level rises or am i missing something?
 
laserbrn

laserbrn

Well-Known Member
rbahadosingh said:
when doing soil i do 64 in a 4x4 and they all fit pretty nicely. But being as the 4" rockwool cubes were a little bit smaller than 1 gallon pots i figured i could fit more. and on top of that i have a total of about 90 clones and i dont have anything to do with the extra ones so i figured id just cram as many as i can in there. but now you guys have me double thinking this... Also doesnt hydroton float? how would it work for ebb and flow? wouldnt it just float when the water level rises or am i missing something?
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You fill the tray completely. Set your water level to only go high enough to reach the top of the hydroton. It doesn't life the hydroton out of the tray or anything. Once the hydroton, water mixture reaches the right height, it drains back down thereby keeping it at that level.

the concern is really just how you are going to get 80 plants in there and have it be efficient. Certainly don't veg them and lollipop them for sure. It may work, but if you are willing to wait the 2 weeks, I would just grow 20-30 plants. That's still going to be monstrous in a 4x4 tray.
 
rbahadosingh

rbahadosingh

Well-Known Member
laserbrn said:
You fill the tray completely. Set your water level to only go high enough to reach the top of the hydroton. It doesn't life the hydroton out of the tray or anything. Once the hydroton, water mixture reaches the right height, it drains back down thereby keeping it at that level.

the concern is really just how you are going to get 80 plants in there and have it be efficient. Certainly don't veg them and lollipop them for sure. It may work, but if you are willing to wait the 2 weeks, I would just grow 20-30 plants. That's still going to be monstrous in a 4x4 tray.
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well i know i could fit 80 in there. they would just be very very close together. the guy on this post https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/8632-preping-my-ebb-flow-table.html fit 218 in a 8x4. according to my math i could fit about 130 or so if i did it like that. so i do think the 80 would fit. but vegging for 2 weeks would definately cause some problems in spacing. The strains im using is purple kush and purple erkle. I was definately going to lollipop them for sure. But i am rethinking the vegging time and the amount of plants. Anyone have an idea on yield? There will be atleast 64 in a sun hut under 1000w aircooled HPS grown with co2 and sentinel CHHC-1 controller. So the environment will hopefully be excellent.
 
laserbrn

laserbrn

Well-Known Member
In an excellent environment and a 4x4 I would expect somewhere just north of a pound.

If I had it available I would definitely do the 80 clones and don't veg at all. I mean, let them get some roots, but as soon as they show some growth, flower them.

Easily a bow from doing it that way.
 
rbahadosingh

rbahadosingh

Well-Known Member
laserbrn said:
In an excellent environment and a 4x4 I would expect somewhere just north of a pound.

If I had it available I would definitely do the 80 clones and don't veg at all. I mean, let them get some roots, but as soon as they show some growth, flower them.

Easily a bow from doing it that way.
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i think thats exactly what ill do. im still wondering if i should use a coco mat or just leave the rockwool by itself in the tray.
 
laserbrn

laserbrn

Well-Known Member
rbahadosingh said:
i think thats exactly what ill do. im still wondering if i should use a coco mat or just leave the rockwool by itself in the tray.
Click to expand...
Without veg they will survive in the rockwool JUST fine. Only problem you may have with that much rockwool is keep it the reservoir ph stable. You're going to be adding ph down daily. But hydroton isn't much better for that. I'm freaking adding so much ph down right now it's asinine. I'm going to end up dumping this reservoir after only a week to try to get all that dust shit outta there. Didn't do a good enough job cleaning it I guesss.
 
dirtysteve

dirtysteve

Well-Known Member
Brucetree is 100% right. Everything you ever needed to know about flood and drain SOG in in there. That is why it is sticky-ed. Al B. Fuct's receipe is spot on as long as you follow it like a receipe. Tweak it for your specific conditions, but the basic principal is solid. SOLID!!!
 
rbahadosingh

rbahadosingh

Well-Known Member
I decided to go with 64 plants in the 4x4. All in 4" rockwool ontop of the coco mat. Grow journal to come. Ill post the link in here.
 
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