excuses for have a 30/50 amp outlet installed

SPLFreak808

SPLFreak808

Well-Known Member
SchmoeJoe said:
It's right there in the beginning of the sentence.
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240v x 5a = 1200wrms

120v x 10a = 1200wrms


The same amount of power is still transfered, the only thing gained is line efficiency which would start to show savings once his panel takes a heavy load. So yes, it does have to do with cost.
 
SchmoeJoe

SchmoeJoe

Well-Known Member
SPLFreak808 said:
240v x 5a = 1200wrms

120v x 10a = 1200wrms


The same amount of power is still transfered, the only thing gained is line efficiency which would start to show savings once his panel takes a heavy load.
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But you can run twice as much on the circuit. It has nothing to do with saving on the electric bill. Your own math shows that it reduces the load on the circuit by half. That means you can run twice as many lights on the circuit.
 
deno

deno

Well-Known Member
SchmoeJoe said:
The appliance itself will be slightly more efficient but the load on the circuit is cut by half. It's especially crucial if you don't have much room left in your main breaker box.
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Ah. I see the big advantage there. I wish I had one in my grow room, but it'd take way too much work for my lazy ass.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
SchmoeJoe said:
Equipment uses half the amperage when run at 220/240 compared to 110/120. It has nothing to do with cost.
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Your right, and I see your point but,

It takes up twice the breaker space! Where's your benefit in that? If the box is less then 200 amps. He's already pushing the space in it. Most I've seen/worked on were less and had space available for 2 30amps but, with 2 set already (30's) and 3-4 20's (bathroom and kitchen) and 15's in the rest of the house. The available breaker space is almost gone.

If, you have that 200 amp box. Now you may have space for some. Even then the average in home box has 20 available breaker spaces. Now then Run a well? 30 amp - 2 spaces. Electric stove ability is in most homes 50 amp - 2 spaces. 3 bedroom 3 15 amp outlets 3 spaces. Bathroom - dedicated 20 amp GFI and a none GFI 15 2 spaces. Kitchen 2 20 amp GFI's and a 15 for 2 other outlets 3 spaces. Basement/laundry room 30 amp 2 spaces. The rest depends on outlets available. Say 2 15's for the basement and 1 for the laundry room so 3 total there.

Garage will take at least 1 space... So in total, we are damn close to a full box..... Many will combine a few of the bed rooms, and maybe a kitchen to the garage, laundry thrown on another low use line, so give back 3........Generally I see 14-16 spaces filled on an 20 box..... Not many homes with 30+ space box's...

This has to be a newer home too. Cities have plenty of box's under 200 amp. Not like folks are running to spend money to change over to the new home code. Fair share of Federal Pacific and Zinsco panels (Many period GE-Sylvania panels are Zinsco made and need to be replaced) still in homes from the 50's to the 80's. These are dangerous and need to be replaced if you have them!
Then you still have homes over 40 years old with split-bus panels.
Not to long ago I saw a fuse box in a city home that someone wanted help with. That turned into a big money change over for the guy (I told him to get a free panel from the electric company. The electrician bought one and charged him extra).

The other thing is. Unless your growing rather short plants. A DE is not the best in home idea. No high ceilings to draw the heat up and away. 2-3 ft from canopy to light...... I would want a minimum of 12 ft, floor to ceiling, to run a DE for short plants. More would be much better! Like 16 to start with.

See mine?
 
SchmoeJoe

SchmoeJoe

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
Your right, and I see your point but,

It takes up twice the breaker space! Where's your benefit in that? If the box is less then 200 amps. He's already pushing the space in it. Most I've seen/worked on were less and had space available for 2 30amps but, with 2 set already (30's) and 3-4 20's (bathroom and kitchen) and 15's in the rest of the house. The available breaker space is almost gone.

If, you have that 200 amp box. Now you may have space for some. Even then the average in home box has 20 available breaker spaces. Now then Run a well? 30 amp - 2 spaces. Electric stove ability is in most homes 50 amp - 2 spaces. 3 bedroom 3 15 amp outlets 3 spaces. Bathroom - dedicated 20 amp GFI and a none GFI 15 2 spaces. Kitchen 2 20 amp GFI's and a 15 for 2 other outlets 3 spaces. Basement/laundry room 30 amp 2 spaces. The rest depends on outlets available. Say 2 15's for the basement and 1 for the laundry room so 3 total there.

Garage will take at least 1 space... So in total, we are damn close to a full box..... Many will combine a few of the bed rooms, and maybe a kitchen to the garage, laundry thrown on another low use line, so give back 3........Generally I see 14-16 spaces filled on an 20 box..... Not many homes with 30+ space box's...

This has to be a newer home too. Cities have plenty of box's under 200 amp. Not like folks are running to spend money to change over to the new home code. Fair share of Federal Pacific and Zinsco panels (Many period GE-Sylvania panels are Zinsco made and need to be replaced) still in homes from the 50's to the 80's. These are dangerous and need to be replaced if you have them!
Then you still have homes over 40 years old with split-bus panels.
Not to long ago I saw a fuse box in a city home that someone wanted help with. That turned into a big money change over for the guy (I told him to get a free panel from the electric company. The electrician bought one and charged him extra).

The other thing is. Unless your growing rather short plants. A DE is not the best in home idea. No high ceilings to draw the heat up and away. 2-3 ft from canopy to light...... I would want a minimum of 12 ft, floor to ceiling, to run a DE for short plants. More would be much better! Like 16 to start with.

See mine?
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What does your point about DE lights have to do with finding an excuse to have a 30/50 installed or the difference between 110/120 and 220/240? Zilch. It's completely irrelevant. If there is actually the capacity to install up to a 50 amp circuit then odds are There's room for a two pole. And DE lights still have nothing to do with it.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
SchmoeJoe said:
What does your point about DE lights have to do with finding an excuse to have a 30/50 installed or the difference between 110/120 and 220/240? Zilch. It's completely irrelevant. If there is actually the capacity to install up to a 50 amp circuit then odds are There's room for a two pole. And DE lights still have nothing to do with it.
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Most folks I know are running their DE's 240.......First guess was a DE.... I would run DE's at 240.

Get lost on the point or just left with DE comments? Room for a 30 amp 240 or room for 2 20 amp 110's.....That's 1 light vs. 2 lights. You might be saving amps but, you lost the ability to increase your options on plant #'s..
 
SchmoeJoe

SchmoeJoe

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
Most folks I know are running their DE's 240.......First guess was a DE.... I would run DE's at 240.

Get lost on the point or just left with DE comments? Room for a 30 amp 240 or room for 2 20 amp 110's.....That's 1 light vs. 2 lights. You might be saving amps but, you lost the ability to increase your options on plant #'s..
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You're the one off on a tangeny. If you think the difference between one 30 amp 240 breaker and two 20 110's is one and two lights then you don't know how circuit loads work.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
SchmoeJoe said:
You're the one off on a tangeny. If you think the difference between one 30 amp 240 breaker and two 20 110's is one and two lights then you don't know how circuit loads work.
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Your right...You can get 240 dual outlet wall sockets. It would have to be a 30 amp breaker. You could run two from there.... Even though a 1K DE ballast runs at less then 5 amps. The concern would be the start up spike to run them with 15 amp 240's out of a dual outlet wall socket.

My mixed up bad..... Focusing on the wrong thing....
 
SchmoeJoe

SchmoeJoe

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
Your right...You can get 240 dual outlet wall sockets. It would have to be a 30 amp breaker. You could run two from there.... Even though a 1K DE ballast runs at less then 5 amps. The concern would be the start up spike to run them with 15 amp 240's out of a dual outlet wall socket.

My mixed up bad..... Focusing on the wrong thing....
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It could even be a two pole 15 amp and still run two 1k's. If someone's already going through the trouble of installing a new circuit there's no reason to expect them to be limited to a standard wall outlet. From a 30 amp you could easily run 4 1,000's and a couple of 240 t5's. As far as in rush there are ballasts with their own circuitry to prevent them from all coming on at once or you could use timers to spread the start time over a few minutes.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
SchmoeJoe said:
It could even be a two pole 15 amp and still run two 1k's. If someone's already going through the trouble of installing a new circuit there's no reason to expect them to be limited to a standard wall outlet. From a 30 amp you could easily run 4 1,000's and a couple of 240 t5's. As far as in rush there are ballasts with their own circuitry to prevent them from all coming on at once or you could use timers to spread the start time over a few minutes.
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Easily? I would have to know the start up spike from the ballast before I would run 2 on a 15. Let alone 4 on a 30....... The spike increases with multiple starting current draws. I have seen start up spikes trip breakers!
Some older flip box's are real hard on breakers at the flip spike. Flip box's also trip internal protection circuits in many electronic ballasts, and then they will fail to spike the bulb....same type of thing.

Your ballast maybe rated to run at 5 amps, It spikes around dbl that at the start up.......I do agree with the idea of staggered start up.....I don't practice it, and wouldn't trust the timers not to shift by differing amounts to, at some point do a multiple trip. Safety first..... I may hate the cops, but only enjoy meeting firefighters, outside their jobs...

Kinda like Having a GF that live's with other women. Their Periods all slowly shift to line up at one time. It's called "Hell Week" in non coed dorms. Never visit that residence during hell week!
 
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