farmers markets

st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
I think they're illegal. To me, it spells it out quite clearly in the act that a caregiver can only provide meds to patients who have assigned him/her as their primary caregiver. Period.

There are of course going to be people who will try to split hairs and find any little loophole to justify what they do, but if your reading comprehension is at a 5'th grade level or better, it's pretty easy to understand the intent of the law.

Having said that, I look forward to the day that the state gives patients/caregivers the green light to do stuff like farmers markets. Seems like a good idea.
 
Jogro

Jogro

Well-Known Member
cheeswreck said:
whats your thoughts on them ?legal or no?or just easy pickens when leo desides to raid.
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Presumably you're talking about "farmer's markets" for MMJ.

Answer: Any sale of MMJ is against FEDERAL law.

For profit sale of MMJ is also against Michigan state law.

So that would be a "no brainer". Patients can only legally have one caregiver, and caregivers are not allowed to sell MMJ to anyone other than their registered patients.

Any "farmer" who offers MMJ to someone not their registered patient is in clear violation of MI State law.

Note that its not at all clear to me that its illegal for cardholding patients to purchase said MMJ; they would be allowed to possess it.
 
Timmahh

Timmahh

Well-Known Member
MICHIGAN MEDICAL MARIHUANA ACT (EXCERPT)Initiated Law 1 of 2008

333.26424 Qualifying patient or primary caregiver; arrest, prosecution, or penalty prohibited; conditions; presumption; compensation; physician subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty prohibited; marihuana paraphernalia; person in presence or vicinity to medical use of marihuana; registry identification issued outside of department; sale of marihuana as felony; penalty.
4. Protections for the Medical Use of Marihuana.
Sec. 4. (a) A qualifying patient who has been issued and possesses a registry identification card shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, for the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act, provided that the qualifying patient possesses an amount of marihuana that does not exceed 2.5 ounces of usable marihuana, and, if the qualifying patient has not specified that a primary caregiver will be allowed under state law to cultivate marihuana for the qualifying patient, 12 marihuana plants kept in an enclosed, locked facility. Any incidental amount of seeds, stalks, and unusable roots shall also be allowed under state law and shall not be included in this amount.
(b) A primary caregiver who has been issued and possesses a registry identification card shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, for assisting a qualifying patient to whom he or she is connected through the department's registration process with the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act, provided that the primary caregiver possesses an amount of marihuana that does not exceed:
(1) 2.5 ounces of usable marihuana for each qualifying patient to whom he or she is connected through the department's registration process; and
(2) for each registered qualifying patient who has specified that the primary caregiver will be allowed under state law to cultivate marihuana for the qualifying patient, 12 marihuana plants kept in an enclosed, locked facility; and
(3) any incidental amount of seeds, stalks, and unusable roots.
(c) A person shall not be denied custody or visitation of a minor for acting in accordance with this act, unless the person's behavior is such that it creates an unreasonable danger to the minor that can be clearly articulated and substantiated.
(d) There shall be a presumption that a qualifying patient or primary caregiver is engaged in the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act if the qualifying patient or primary caregiver:
(1) is in possession of a registry identification card; and
(2) is in possession of an amount of marihuana that does not exceed the amount allowed under this act. The presumption may be rebutted by evidence that conduct related to marihuana was not for the purpose of alleviating the qualifying patient's debilitating medical condition or symptoms associated with the debilitating medical condition, in accordance with this act.
(e) A registered primary caregiver may receive compensation for costs associated with assisting a registered qualifying patient in the medical use of marihuana. Any such compensation shall not constitute the sale of controlled substances.
(f) A physician shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by the Michigan board of medicine, the Michigan board of osteopathic medicine and surgery, or any other business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, solely for providing written certifications, in the course of a bona fide physician-patient relationship and after the physician has completed a full assessment of the qualifying patient's medical history, or for otherwise stating that, in the physician's professional opinion, a patient is likely to receive therapeutic or palliative benefit from the medical use of marihuana to treat or alleviate the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition or symptoms associated with the serious or debilitating medical condition, provided that nothing shall prevent a professional licensing board from sanctioning a physician for failing to properly evaluate a patient's medical condition or otherwise violating the standard of care for evaluating medical conditions.
(g) A person shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, for providing a registered qualifying patient or a registered primary caregiver with marihuana paraphernalia for purposes of a qualifying patient's medical use of marihuana.
(h) Any marihuana, marihuana paraphernalia, or licit property that is possessed, owned, or used in connection with the medical use of marihuana, as allowed under this act, or acts incidental to such use, shall not be seized or forfeited.
(i) A person shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, solely for being in the presence or vicinity of the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act, or for assisting a registered qualifying patient with using or administering marihuana.
(j) A registry identification card, or its equivalent, that is issued under the laws of another state, district, territory, commonwealth, or insular possession of the United States that allows the medical use of marihuana by a visiting qualifying patient, or to allow a person to assist with a visiting qualifying patient's medical use of marihuana, shall have the same force and effect as a registry identification card issued by the department.
(k) Any registered qualifying patient or registered primary caregiver who sells marihuana to someone who is not allowed to use marihuana for medical purposes under this act shall have his or her registry identification card revoked and is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 2 years or a fine of not more than $2,000.00, or both, in addition to any other penalties for the distribution of marihuana.

History: 2008, Initiated Law 1, Eff. Dec. 4, 2008
Compiler's Notes: MCL 333.26430 of Initiated Law 1 of 2008 provides:10. Severability.Sec. 10. Any section of this act being held invalid as to any person or circumstances shall not affect the application of any other section of this act that can be given full effect without the invalid section or application.

© 2009 Legislative Council, State of Michigan
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Try again. There is ZERO wording in the Act, that states a CG MUST only transfer to his Assigned Patients. That again is Bill Schuettes OPINE, and the AG does NOT MAKE LAW, He Upholds it.
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
Timmah, if what you say is true, then why is there any limitations in the law to begin with? Why would the state adopt any language pertaining to this if any caregiver can transfer meds to any patient? Why would they go to the trouble of spelling out that patients can only have one caregiver, caregivers can only have (up to) 5 patients, etc?

It seems like a waste of ink if the intent of the law all along was to allow ANY caregiver to transfer meds to ANY patient.

This was my understanding of the law long before Bill Schutte became AG.

But, whatever. You, or anyone else can run around the state taking "donations" from any random patient if you please. I will continue to err on the side of caution (and common sense) until this has been addressed by the state, or until the courts set precedent on it.

I do think it's irresponsible of you to be so matter of fact about this, though. What you are saying is ONLY your opinion, and you could get someone in to a whole world of trouble if they take your advice. I'd be a lot more receptive to what you're saying if you were to preface it by stating "this is only my opinion, and I'm not an attorney".
 
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treetopmmmp

Active Member
What about the wording in this part?:

(b) A primary caregiver who has been issued and possesses a registry identification card shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, for assisting a qualifying patient to whom he or she is connected through the department's registration process with the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act, provided that the primary caregiver possesses an amount of marihuana that does not exceed:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Personally I hope we see it on the ballot in November and get it legal for
everyone 21 or older. If Michigan starts, other states will follow.

treetopmmmp
 
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tomcatjones

Active Member
I pretty much second all that Timmah said and then some.

more light needs to be shed on the fact that LARA illegally has control and the law from the begining wasnt ever implemented.

all those on the side of caution only do so in fear. -which is understandable but we need people to stand up for the law we voted for.


or did you vote no too? ..do you like being disregarded by those who are supposed to represent us.

or at the very least, follow the proper process and take the proposal language into account.
 
Timmahh

Timmahh

Well-Known Member
From the Law as it is on the Book (like above quote i posted)

333.26422 Findings, declaration.
2. Findings.
Sec. 2. The people of the State of Michigan find and declare that:
(a) Modern medical research, including as found by the National Academy of Sciences' Institute of Medicine in a March 1999 report, has discovered beneficial uses for marihuana in treating or alleviating the pain, nausea, and other symptoms associated with a variety of debilitating medical conditions.
(b) Data from the Federal Bureau of Investigation Uniform Crime Reports and the Compendium of Federal Justice Statistics show that approximately 99 out of every 100 marihuana arrests in the United States are made under state law, rather than under federal law. Consequently, changing state law will have the practical effect of protecting from arrest the vast majority of seriously ill people who have a medical need to use marihuana.
(c) Although federal law currently prohibits any use of marihuana except under very limited circumstances, states are not required to enforce federal law or prosecute people for engaging in activities prohibited by federal law. The laws of Alaska, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Maine, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, Vermont, Rhode Island, and Washington do not penalize the medical use and cultivation of marihuana. Michigan joins in this effort for the health and welfare of its citizens.

History: 2008, Initiated Law 1, Eff. Dec. 4, 2008
Compiler's Notes: MCL 333.26430 of Initiated Law 1 of 2008 provides:10. Severability.Sec. 10. Any section of this act being held invalid as to any person or circumstances shall not affect the application of any other section of this act that can be given full effect without the invalid section or application.
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333.26423 Definitions.
3. Definitions.
Sec. 3. As used in this act:
(a) "Debilitating medical condition" means 1 or more of the following:
(1) Cancer, glaucoma, positive status for human immunodeficiency virus, acquired immune deficiency syndrome, hepatitis C, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, Crohn's disease, agitation of Alzheimer's disease, nail patella, or the treatment of these conditions.
(2) A chronic or debilitating disease or medical condition or its treatment that produces 1 or more of the following: cachexia or wasting syndrome; severe and chronic pain; severe nausea; seizures, including but not limited to those characteristic of epilepsy; or severe and persistent muscle spasms, including but not limited to those characteristic of multiple sclerosis.
(3) Any other medical condition or its treatment approved by the department, as provided for in section 5(a).
(b) "Department" means the state department of community health.
(c) "Enclosed, locked facility" means a closet, room, or other enclosed area equipped with locks or other security devices that permit access only by a registered primary caregiver or registered qualifying patient.
(d) "Marihuana" means that term as defined in section 7106 of the public health code, 1978 PA 368, MCL 333.7106.
(e) "Medical use" means the acquisition, possession, cultivation, manufacture, use, internal possession, delivery, transfer, or transportation of marihuana or paraphernalia relating to the administration of marihuana to treat or alleviate a registered qualifying patient's debilitating medical condition or symptoms associated with the debilitating medical condition.
(f) "Physician" means an individual licensed as a physician under Part 170 of the public health code, 1978 PA 368, MCL 333.17001 to 333.17084, or an osteopathic physician under Part 175 of the public health code, 1978 PA 368, MCL 333.17501 to 333.17556.
(g) "Primary caregiver" means a person who is at least 21 years old and who has agreed to assist with a patient's medical use of marihuana and who has never been convicted of a felony involving illegal drugs.
(h) "Qualifying patient" means a person who has been diagnosed by a physician as having a debilitating medical condition.
(i) "Registry identification card" means a document issued by the department that identifies a person as a registered qualifying patient or registered primary caregiver.
(j) "Usable marihuana" means the dried leaves and flowers of the marihuana plant, and any mixture or preparation thereof, but does not include the seeds, stalks, and roots of the plant.
(k) "Visiting qualifying patient" means a patient who is not a resident of this state or who has been a resident of this state for less than 30 days.
(l) "Written certification" means a document signed by a physician, stating the patient's debilitating medical condition and stating that, in the physician's professional opinion, the patient is likely to receive therapeutic or palliative benefit from the medical use of marihuana to treat or alleviate the patient's debilitating medical condition or symptoms associated with the debilitating medical condition.

History: 2008, Initiated Law 1, Eff. Dec. 4, 2008

Compiler's Notes: MCL 333.26430 of Initiated Law 1 of 2008 provides:10. Severability.Sec. 10. Any section of this act being held invalid as to any person or circumstances shall not affect the application of any other section of this act that can be given full effect without the invalid section or application.
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333.26424 Qualifying patient or primary caregiver; arrest, prosecution, or penalty prohibited; conditions; presumption; compensation; physician subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty prohibited; marihuana paraphernalia; person in presence or vicinity to medical use of marihuana; registry identification issued outside of department; sale of marihuana as felony; penalty.
4. Protections for the Medical Use of Marihuana.
Sec. 4. (a) A qualifying patient who has been issued and possesses a registry identification card shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, for the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act, provided that the qualifying patient possesses an amount of marihuana that does not exceed 2.5 ounces of usable marihuana, and, if the qualifying patient has not specified that a primary caregiver will be allowed under state law to cultivate marihuana for the qualifying patient, 12 marihuana plants kept in an enclosed, locked facility. Any incidental amount of seeds, stalks, and unusable roots shall also be allowed under state law and shall not be included in this amount.
(b) A primary caregiver who has been issued and possesses a registry identification card shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, for assisting a qualifying patient to whom he or she is connected through the department's registration process with the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act, provided that the primary caregiver possesses an amount of marihuana that does not exceed:
(1) 2.5 ounces of usable marihuana for each qualifying patient to whom he or she is connected through the department's registration process; and
(2) for each registered qualifying patient who has specified that the primary caregiver will be allowed under state law to cultivate marihuana for the qualifying patient, 12 marihuana plants kept in an enclosed, locked facility; and
(3) any incidental amount of seeds, stalks, and unusable roots.
(c) A person shall not be denied custody or visitation of a minor for acting in accordance with this act, unless the person's behavior is such that it creates an unreasonable danger to the minor that can be clearly articulated and substantiated.
(d) There shall be a presumption that a qualifying patient or primary caregiver is engaged in the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act if the qualifying patient or primary caregiver:
(1) is in possession of a registry identification card; and
(2) is in possession of an amount of marihuana that does not exceed the amount allowed under this act. The presumption may be rebutted by evidence that conduct related to marihuana was not for the purpose of alleviating the qualifying patient's debilitating medical condition or symptoms associated with the debilitating medical condition, in accordance with this act.
(e) A registered primary caregiver may receive compensation for costs associated with assisting a registered qualifying patient in the medical use of marihuana. Any such compensation shall not constitute the sale of controlled substances.
(f) A physician shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by the Michigan board of medicine, the Michigan board of osteopathic medicine and surgery, or any other business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, solely for providing written certifications, in the course of a bona fide physician-patient relationship and after the physician has completed a full assessment of the qualifying patient's medical history, or for otherwise stating that, in the physician's professional opinion, a patient is likely to receive therapeutic or palliative benefit from the medical use of marihuana to treat or alleviate the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition or symptoms associated with the serious or debilitating medical condition, provided that nothing shall prevent a professional licensing board from sanctioning a physician for failing to properly evaluate a patient's medical condition or otherwise violating the standard of care for evaluating medical conditions.
(g) A person shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, for providing a registered qualifying patient or a registered primary caregiver with marihuana paraphernalia for purposes of a qualifying patient's medical use of marihuana.
(h) Any marihuana, marihuana paraphernalia, or licit property that is possessed, owned, or used in connection with the medical use of marihuana, as allowed under this act, or acts incidental to such use, shall not be seized or forfeited.
(i) A person shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, solely for being in the presence or vicinity of the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act, or for assisting a registered qualifying patient with using or administering marihuana.
(j) A registry identification card, or its equivalent, that is issued under the laws of another state, district, territory, commonwealth, or insular possession of the United States that allows the medical use of marihuana by a visiting qualifying patient, or to allow a person to assist with a visiting qualifying patient's medical use of marihuana, shall have the same force and effect as a registry identification card issued by the department.
(k) Any registered qualifying patient or registered primary caregiver who sells marihuana to someone who is not allowed to use marihuana for medical purposes under this act shall have his or her registry identification card revoked and is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 2 years or a fine of not more than $2,000.00, or both, in addition to any other penalties for the distribution of marihuana.

History: 2008, Initiated Law 1, Eff. Dec. 4, 2008
Compiler's Notes: MCL 333.26430 of Initiated Law 1 of 2008 provides:10. Severability.Sec. 10. Any section of this act being held invalid as to any person or circumstances shall not affect the application of any other section of this act that can be given full effect without the invalid section or application.
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This sections defines the scope of the limitations authorized by the Act itself.


Section 333.26427
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MICHIGAN MEDICAL MARIHUANA ACT (EXCERPT)
Initiated Law 1 of 2008

333.26427 Scope of act; limitations.
7. Scope of Act.
Sec. 7. (a) The medical use of marihuana is allowed under state law to the extent that it is carried out in accordance with the provisions of this act.
(b) This act shall not permit any person to do any of the following:
(1) Undertake any task under the influence of marihuana, when doing so would constitute negligence or professional malpractice.
(2) Possess marihuana, or otherwise engage in the medical use of marihuana:
(A) in a school bus;
(B) on the grounds of any preschool or primary or secondary school; or
(C) in any correctional facility.
(3) Smoke marihuana:
(A) on any form of public transportation; or
(B) in any public place.
(4) Operate, navigate, or be in actual physical control of any motor vehicle, aircraft, or motorboat while under the influence of marihuana.
(5) Use marihuana if that person does not have a serious or debilitating medical condition.
(c) Nothing in this act shall be construed to require:
(1) A government medical assistance program or commercial or non-profit health insurer to reimburse a person for costs associated with the medical use of marihuana.
(2) An employer to accommodate the ingestion of marihuana in any workplace or any employee working while under the influence of marihuana.
(d) Fraudulent representation to a law enforcement official of any fact or circumstance relating to the medical use of marihuana to avoid arrest or prosecution shall be punishable by a fine of $500.00, which shall be in addition to any other penalties that may apply for making a false statement or for the use of marihuana other than use undertaken pursuant to this act.
(e) All other acts and parts of acts inconsistent with this act do not apply to the medical use of marihuana as provided for by this act.


History: 2008, Initiated Law 1, Eff. Dec. 4, 2008
Compiler's Notes: MCL 333.26430 of Initiated Law 1 of 2008 provides:10. Severability.Sec. 10. Any section of this act being held invalid as to any person or circumstances shall not affect the application of any other section of this act that can be given full effect without the invalid section or application.
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The last line means the 08 MMM Act, Supercedes the Mi Controlled Substances Act, when it comes to Medical Cannabis.

To your question about why 5 "Assigned" Pts. Simple fact, their had to be a way to ensure limited plant counts, so no one was over the fed limit of 99 where they start looking at it hard. 6 people 12 plants is 72 as we all know, 27 (a full 1/4 about) below the fed number.
also... if anyone could grow to their hearts contenct, then it is very reasonable that one or 3 poeple could mopnopolize the open market. Again, not good for Pts or CGs or cost of donation for meds.

now let me ask you this question.


what Registry are you on?

I am on the Michigan Medical Marihuana Registry authorized by the MMM Act, voted in by a People Initiative.
Are you an Authorized Patient or Caregiver of that said Registry? If you are on that registry, and I am on that same registry, and Tom is on that same Registry, and gladstoned is on that same registry, then how are we NOT Connected via the Registry, simply because I didnt assign one of you guys as my CG or PT, and Visa Versa?

Now add the Visiting Patient. He cant get a CG in MI, hes is not a Resident, thus doesnt not qualify for a Mi Pt Card. how is He supposed to Safely and Legally "Acquire" his meds while he is here visiting, if they can not even get an assigned caregiver?

Your right, he cant, UNLESS his States card is as good as our states card, and that authorized him, and us, to transfer for remuneration as a CG, As long as the persona is a Registred Pt or CG of Mi, or a legally authorized Pt with a state card, authorized in the patients or caregivers home state.
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
tomcatjones said:
I pretty much second all that Timmah said and then some.

more light needs to be shed on the fact that LARA illegally has control and the law from the begining wasnt ever implemented.

all those on the side of caution only do so in fear. -which is understandable but we need people to stand up for the law we voted for.


or did you vote no too? ..do you like being disregarded by those who are supposed to represent us.

or at the very least, follow the proper process and take the proposal language into account.
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You're damm right I do it out of fear. Fear for my 3 kids. Fear for my family. Fear for my profession.

Who in their right mind would *want* to go to prison?

You act like you're some Braveheart of the cannabis community because you want to push the envelope .... looking down your nose at the rest of us that practice a little common sense.

I am perfectly FINE caregiving for the patients that I am registered to through the state, and I have no desire to be running around Michigan peddling meds to any cat that has a card. That was never the intent of the law.

Bill Schutte is one end of the spectrum, and people like you, Timmah, blueberry, etc are the other end. In the middle lays 90% of the public that voted in 2008. Keep that in mind the next time you think you're representing the will of the people.
 
B

bob harris

Well-Known Member
Not trying to be difficult, but I don't think the law as passed intended to allow anything like a Farmer's Market. I mean come on, if you were going to go to a market as a vendor, how much cannabis would you have to take with you to sell enough to make the trip worthwhile? Would you go just to take 2.5 oz of overage, and sit around hoping to sell that off, at a price that would truly equate to "not for profit'?

I wouldn't have a problem as a buyer going to a market, but I think vendors are most certainly pressing their luck, in a legal sense.

I mean, if a cg with enough patients to legally transport say 10ozs...takes 10oz's to the market. I think the law would be pretty safe in assuming that his patients have been cared for before he went to market. That being the case, how does the cg justify in court that at 200 per zip, the $2000 he intended to make isn't "profit"?

Wouldn't he have already broke even, or made his reasonable compensation, from his patients?

I think the better argument lies in supporting dispensaries.
 
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tomcatjones

Active Member
bob harris said:
Not trying to be difficult, but I don't think the law as passed intended to allow anything like a Farmer's Market. I mean come on, if you were going to go to a market as a vendor, how much cannabis would you have to take with you to sell enough to make the trip worthwhile? Would you go just to take 2.5 oz of overage, and sit around hoping to sell that off, at a price that would truly equate to "not for profit'?

I wouldn't have a problem as a buyer going to a market, but I think vendors are most certainly pressing their luck, in a legal sense.

I mean, if a cg with enough patients to legally transport say 10ozs...takes 10oz's to the market. I think the law would be pretty safe in assuming that his patients have been cared for before he went to market. That being the case, how does the cg justify in court that at 200 per zip, the $2000 he intended to make isn't "profit"?

Wouldn't he have already broke even, or made his reasonable compensation, from his patients?

I think the better argument lies in supporting dispensaries.
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well not if they have low income patients who cannot afford medicine....

when you have pts who cant even pay ten bucks for a gram a month.. what do you do to supplement that? -you get your costs elsewhere liek at a farm market and provide free meds for your patients with due compassion.

"from each according to ability, to each according to need!" lolol

..you are going to argue that vendoring at a farm market is illegal but then say the better model is a dispensary? /facepalm

even the lower courts agree that P2P is legal and even then the issue is cg2p - which is CLEAR as timmah points out... that lovely lovely word.. "A"

I'm a qualifying registered patient... are you?

we just need to people to go back to realizing it and not acting in the shadows of fear.
 
Timmahh

Timmahh

Well-Known Member
yes, what about the many patients on disability of 600 a month, maybe a bit more if they are a veteran. most cant afford the general cost of living, let alone food, and meds....

how many patients of low to zero ability to cover any dontation, assigned CG or Not, do folks help? I can gaurentee you got to the Jackson FM, you ll find ALOT of folks there the get help, regardless of ability to pay, and alot of them are covered by Joe and the Farmers Market itself for Zero Cost.
 
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bob harris

Well-Known Member
tomcatjones said:
well not if they have low income patients who cannot afford medicine....

when you have pts who cant even pay ten bucks for a gram a month.. what do you do to supplement that? -you get your costs elsewhere liek at a farm market and provide free meds for your patients with due compassion.

"from each according to ability, to each according to need!" lolol

..you are going to argue that vendoring at a farm market is illegal but then say the better model is a dispensary? /facepalm

even the lower courts agree that P2P is legal and even then the issue is cg2p - which is CLEAR as timmah points out... that lovely lovely word.. "A"

I'm a qualifying registered patient... are you?

we just need to people to go back to realizing it and not acting in the shadows of fear.
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Yes, I am a registered card holder.

I don't think dispensaries (as they were being run) are "the" answer. But I do think something along that model is better than a farmers market.

Another issue I have with a "market" is: are their receipts for those transactions? I mean is the farmer taking in this money with only their word that they will file taxes and report their income and expenses for their caregiver "business" to the IRS and State?

One of the biggest roadblocks to any distribution scenario is that once money starts changing hands, income should be taxed. Even a NPO is required to have records and file taxes.

Any model that truly worked, would have to account for the transfer of cash. At the cg level, the dispensary level, even a p2p level.

Currently, how many patients and cg's are do you think are really keeping any records, and reporting their activity at tax time? My guess is very few.

I would say that anyone other than a patient growing for themselves, SHOULD be REQUIRED report to the state with records every year. Once you accept a patient, you become a business. Yes, you may be non profit...but you'd have to be giving away a lot of cannabis to be truly non profit.

Perhaps the largest problem of all, in every aspect of this law, is how poorly we have policed ourselves.

At least with a dispensary model of some sort, the dispensary can 1099 the growers that sell to them. The State can audit receipts and expenses of the dispensary, and there is an element of legitimacy for everyone.

If you are so naive as to think that the majority of "care givers" at this point are honest, compassionate caring individuals, barley making a nickle for their time, you need to wake up.

Sure, those people exist. But the vast majority care givers right now. and I'd suspect the ones with the most patients on their card, are in this to make under the table profits. If you don't agree with that..sorry, but you're just naive.
 
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bob harris

Well-Known Member
tomcatjones said:
well not if they have low income patients who cannot afford medicine....

when you have pts who cant even pay ten bucks for a gram a month.. what do you do to supplement that? -you get your costs elsewhere liek at a farm market and provide free meds for your patients with due compassion.

"from each according to ability, to each according to need!" lolol

..you are going to argue that vendoring at a farm market is illegal but then say the better model is a dispensary? /facepalm

even the lower courts agree that P2P is legal and even then the issue is cg2p - which is CLEAR as timmah points out... that lovely lovely word.. "A"

I'm a qualifying registered patient... are you?

we just need to people to go back to realizing it and not acting in the shadows of fear.
Click to expand...

Yes, I am a registered card holder.

Sure, there are people that need free or discounted meds. But if you are thier cg, you knew that when you signed them up on your card. Please explain to me the scenario, where with yourself, and one patient who can't pay, you couldn't just have said..look pal, I have enough overage from my 12 plants to help you out.

Why did you need him to sign over his rights? The only answer is plant count. YOU wanted more weed. Or are you going to tell me someone out there is soooo compassionate, that none of his patients can pay? Just seems that a legitimate care giver, seeking minimal compensation for his efforts, (remember, it's your time materials and efforts you are allowed to be paid for) would have a reasonable plan on how he was accomplish that, without relying on "overages"?

I don't think dispensaries (as they were being run) are "the" answer. But I do think something along that model is better than a farmers market.

Another issue I have with a "market" is: are their receipts for those transactions? I mean is the farmer taking in this money with only their word that they will file taxes and report their income and expenses for their caregiver "business" to the IRS and State?

One of the biggest roadblocks to any distribution scenario is that once money starts changing hands, income should be taxed. Even a NPO is required to have records and file taxes.

Any model that truly worked, would have to account for the transfer of cash. At the cg level, the dispensary level, even a p2p level.

Currently, how many patients and cg's are do you think are really keeping any records, and reporting their activity at tax time? My guess is very few.

I would say that anyone other than a patient growing for themselves, SHOULD be REQUIRED report to the state with records every year. Once you accept a patient, you become a business. Yes, you may be non profit...but you'd have to be giving away a lot of cannabis to be truly non profit.

Perhaps the largest problem of all, in every aspect of this law, is how poorly we have policed ourselves.

At least with a dispensary model of some sort, the dispensary can 1099 the growers that sell to them. The State can audit receipts and expenses of the dispensary, and there is an element of legitimacy for everyone.

If you are so naive as to think that the majority of "care givers" at this point are honest, compassionate caring individuals, barley making a nickle for their time, you need to wake up.

Sure, those people exist. But the vast majority care givers right now. and I'd suspect the ones with the most patients on their card, are in this to make under the table profits. If you don't agree with that..sorry, but you're just naive.
 
T

tomcatjones

Active Member
bob harris said:
Yes, I am a registered card holder.

Sure, there are people that need free or discounted meds. But if you are thier cg, you knew that when you signed them up on your card. Please explain to me the scenario, where with yourself, and one patient who can't pay, you couldn't just have said..look pal, I have enough overage from my 12 plants to help you out.

Why did you need him to sign over his rights? The only answer is plant count. YOU wanted more weed. Or are you going to tell me someone out there is soooo compassionate, that none of his patients can pay? Just seems that a legitimate care giver, seeking minimal compensation for his efforts, (remember, it's your time materials and efforts you are allowed to be paid for) would have a reasonable plan on how he was accomplish that, without relying on "overages"?

I don't think dispensaries (as they were being run) are "the" answer. But I do think something along that model is better than a farmers market.

Another issue I have with a "market" is: are their receipts for those transactions? I mean is the farmer taking in this money with only their word that they will file taxes and report their income and expenses for their caregiver "business" to the IRS and State?

One of the biggest roadblocks to any distribution scenario is that once money starts changing hands, income should be taxed. Even a NPO is required to have records and file taxes.

Any model that truly worked, would have to account for the transfer of cash. At the cg level, the dispensary level, even a p2p level.

Currently, how many patients and cg's are do you think are really keeping any records, and reporting their activity at tax time? My guess is very few.

I would say that anyone other than a patient growing for themselves, SHOULD be REQUIRED report to the state with records every year. Once you accept a patient, you become a business. Yes, you may be non profit...but you'd have to be giving away a lot of cannabis to be truly non profit.

Perhaps the largest problem of all, in every aspect of this law, is how poorly we have policed ourselves.

At least with a dispensary model of some sort, the dispensary can 1099 the growers that sell to them. The State can audit receipts and expenses of the dispensary, and there is an element of legitimacy for everyone.

If you are so naive as to think that the majority of "care givers" at this point are honest, compassionate caring individuals, barley making a nickle for their time, you need to wake up.

Sure, those people exist. But the vast majority care givers right now. and I'd suspect the ones with the most patients on their card, are in this to make under the table profits. If you don't agree with that..sorry, but you're just naive.
Click to expand...
i'm all for filing taxes. and if i had the money and dedicated people i'd be running one. lol
i think it ought to be a NPO that give back to the community. is RSO or is services or donations of all sorts.

the best reason for a farmers market style is it keep commercial grows out of the picture. and put the well deserved money back into Michigan growers... i want a healthy economy here. so i want MORE to be able to participate.

and are you rly worried about people later filing taxes?? come on.... enough people exchange cash donations all the time for all sorts of reasons. receipts aren't necessary. but are possible.

get a tax id and go... its not hard.

I'm only naive because i'm one of the compassionate ones.

then everyone ducked for the hills when the AG spoke up.. happy that they can grow at all and now will fall in line to protect what little rights they are going to leave us.

GET UP, STAND UP...
 
C

cheeswreck

New Member
so its ok for blueberry to open a market in every major city as he is claiming to be working on? seems like a money thing to me 50 bucks a table adds up fast.how can one person think he can run the whole state? madness
 
Timmahh

Timmahh

Well-Known Member
over 500 Patients and Caregivers go thru the FM in Jackson over the weekend-all the CGs deal directly with the patients. Don't forget their are building costs, electricity costs, and im sure the building owner is seeing a significant cut of each table as well. Add to that the other incidental cost of security at the door and and other help to pay during the times its open. Take from that the other expenses. Can someone make alot of money maybe? sure, just like a CG or Dispensary or the State can do to Pts.

The thing many of you dont know, is how much the expenses are, and the amount of meds Joe and the FM give to those Patients that are there, how maybe cant cover the cost of all the meds they need. Would it surprise you all to know, Joe has already spoken with the local Fed Attorneys Office about the Jackson FM? Why do you think Schuette HAS NOT raided it yet. Maybe because the system is Perfectly Legal. Instead of being armchair bandits, and talking about what you think, head down to Jackson and then you can come back here and talk about what you SEEN.

Facts should Always speak louder than fiction. Look for yourself, then make judgement.
or are you afraid you may feel a bit foolish when you realize how misled you have been.
 
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