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First HPA Cabinet grow

Discussion in 'Aerogardeners' started by Quasar Jones, Aug 20, 2016.

  1.  
    Quasar Jones

    Quasar Jones Member

    This is my first time growing aero. Peculiar thing happened when I put clones in. Some of them flopped over. There seemed to be adequate mist getting to them....

    45 gallon chamber. 90 psi. RH 20%
    Nutes GH, 320 ppm. I had them in the cloner 17 days tap water, then 2 days at 100 ppm last two days. Temp oscillating from 71 to 84 F. Root zone 68 to 73F.

    420 W inda grow induction light. 18/6 lights.

    Anyone else get flopping?
    20160820_185510.jpg 20160820_173723.jpg 20160820_173726.jpg 20160815_153033.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2016
    pinner420 likes this.
  2.  
    Quasar Jones

    Quasar Jones Member

    So those pictures were from two hours after putting them in. I've never grown with a real grow light before, mother is on a 50W LED and clones were 13W LEd.
    I panicked and read something about light stress so I obscured the light a bit for now. 20160820_193226.jpg
     
    Tim Fox likes this.
  3.  
    Airwalker16

    Airwalker16 Well-Known Member

    Noooo nutes, if yer sproutin' roots.

    :D
    Just use Ph'd (5.5-6.5) Reverse Osmosis/Distilled Water and that's it.
     
  4.  
    Quasar Jones

    Quasar Jones Member

    Most of em had 4 to 5 inch roots with fish bones coming off. There's a pic of them in the cloner in first post that is from two days ago.
     
  5.  
    Atomizer

    Atomizer Well-Known Member

    The RH% should be higher than 20%, can you see the mist exiting the hole when you remove a netpot? You may need to run a longer misting pulse initially to ensure enough of the larger droplets reach the netpots. The roots will need a little time to get used to the hpa mist after being in a lpa cloner.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2016
    pinner420 likes this.
  6.  
    Quasar Jones

    Quasar Jones Member

    Ok, shoot so you're thinking water issue. The Rh is 20% because the AC pulls the moisture out if the air... I could up the RH constraint a bit, it'll make my exhaust trigger a lot. Really wanted to avoid that.

    I'm doing one second every minute, and there was mist coming out of the holes, not much because when I shine a light, the mist is swirling just under the lid, and all the way down to bottom of container, horizontal motion.

    Droplets collect on the netpots too. You think 3 seconds every 3 minutes would make the droplets more effective at first? I'm doing dtw, so I was hoping to keep water volume per time the same to keep res changes from being so close together.

    If I'm being too rigid, let me know.
     
  7.  
    Atomizer

    Atomizer Well-Known Member

    1 second every 60 seconds is more AA territory imho. A lot depends on the type of nozzle your using and the placement. The closest thing i have to yours is a 60gal chamber which runs to waste. It uses 4 nozzles on a 2 second pulse and pause times between 150 and 300 seconds.
     
  8.  
    Quasar Jones

    Quasar Jones Member

    4 Nozzles in a spiral inducing pattern?

    I hope I didn't just make an elaborate oven. The transplants were dried out and most roots were dry even though their net pots had really fine mist clinging to them.
    A few of them had wet roots, but they were still mostly dried out on top. 3 to 4 second duration does seem to saturate better, I'll bump that up.

    Can you elaborate on transition from lpa cloner to hpa roots? I know you've said you hand water, but what are the specifics?
    Volume per plant?
    how often?
    Ppm?

    It seems like a paradox how you can teach them to be hpa, while still keeping then alive with lpa tactics.

    Would you do a 1sec/5min drip right at the net pot, then still have your hpa misters on timer to coax roots out?
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Aug 22, 2016
  9.  
    Atomizer

    Atomizer Well-Known Member

    Think of more like weaning them off lpa and onto hpa :) The roots are used to a constant deluge in the cloner and need to adapt to the intermittant superfine mist. Keep them a little on the wet side for a day or two until they settle in. Make sure they`re geting enough mist to stay upright and when you see some roothairs appearing in the netpot or high up on the stem gradually alter the timing.
    I only hand watered with AA but with the latest innovations (360 degree rotation, infinitely variable nozzle height / angle adjustment), its no longer necessary.
    The 60gal chamber (2.5ft x 2.5ft x 16" deep) uses 4 upward firing wide angle,short throw (hollow cone) nozzles that fill the entire chamber.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2016
    pinner420 and Quasar Jones like this.
  10.  
    Quasar Jones

    Quasar Jones Member

    Can we talk about humidity? Do you measure it/actively control it? I've been trying to rely on AC to control temp but it is overpowered and drives humidity to 20%

    Is it more of a problem with recent transplants, or do I need to seriously reconsider how I manage temps? My ambient humidity is around 45%. I could put the AC at a higher setpoint, say 85F to 90F, and just use exhaust at lower temps... After reading about how aeroponics is less temperature sensitive, it's seeming like humidity is more important concern for controlling.
     
  11.  
    Atomizer

    Atomizer Well-Known Member

    I measure it but dont actively attempt to control it, at least not beyond reasonable bounds. I can see AC making things interesting but i dont run AC so its not an issue for me. If you have 20% RH in the canopy that would be a cause for concern as it will affect transpiration. Have a look around for info on vapor pressure deficit.
     
  12.  
    Quasar Jones

    Quasar Jones Member

    I might bring in more exhaust now, and make the AC run less to help with humidity, can always add a pure water mister for humidification if necessary.

    I think I'm on the hunt for new nozzles. This entire time I wasn't thinking about the lpa2hpa root transition and I'm not making enough water collect at my 11 plant sites in my 45 gallon tote. I feel like they are filling the chamber well though. :/

    I'm going to buy a pump that can get up to 150 PSI to open up nozzle options. Do you have all 4 nozzles on the same solenoid? when I added about 2 feet of 1/4 tubing to hook up 4 misters, the pressure wan't as good.

    I can see why people play it safe and do LPA, but I've come to far to give up.

    I'm going to try for #3 below, but need to find hollow-ish cone with enough flow rate.

    noz2.png
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2016
  13.  
    Atomizer

    Atomizer Well-Known Member

    stateside hypro`s took some finding but they`re cheaper than here. There should be optional 50um filters available that fit the nozzles. Could be option Q and R but dont hold me to it ;)
    http://flsprayers.com/shop/tips-nozzles/hypro-af-series/

    if they dont have any you can try this one
    https://www.dultmeier.com/products/0.811.833/9844
    You might get away with 3 nozzles in your 1st chamber drawing, i`d be tempted to lose the middle row and bring the outer sites in a little but it depends on how big you plan to grow them.
    4 nozzles in drawing number 2 could work out ok too ;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2016
  14.  
    Quasar Jones

    Quasar Jones Member

  15.  
    Atomizer

    Atomizer Well-Known Member

    That could work ok, the overlapping patterns may cause some sites to get more direct mist than others but a lot depends on how deep the chamber is and how high the nozzles are mounted.
    The hypro`s deliver a nice mist and they`re not prone to clogging when run dtw, ymmv if you run them with a recirculating res. Not a great pic but should be enough to give you an idea of the mist quality.
    hypro mist.jpg

    looks like your middle row of sites is on 9" centres, in which case that should work fine. The ideal chamber depth for upward firing hypro`s is 15-16"
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2016
  16.  
    Quasar Jones

    Quasar Jones Member

    Is there a difference between thermal expansion tank and standard accumulator? The thing holding me back from getting a 150 PSI pump is finding a new accumulator that can handle that pressure. I just found this, and it's like half the cost of well x trol
    s normal tank

    https://www.freshwatersystems.com/p...span-t-5-thermal-expansion-tank-2-gallon.aspx


    EDIT: it seems too good to be true, but this site leads me to believe that "thermal expansion" tanks are even more suited to HPA, because they come pre charged at a higher pressure, are cheaper, and has a stainless fitting.

    http://www.asap-supplies.com/us/domestic-water-supply/accumulator-tanks
    pinch me.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2016
  17.  
    Atomizer

    Atomizer Well-Known Member

    Same thing, as long as its suitable for potable water. The precharge will have t be altered regardless of the factory setting. They are pretty small tanks, the higher the precharge, the lower the capacity will be. For example, a 2 gal tank running 150psi down to 100psi will give you 0.6 gal of nutes. You might get half a day though depending on the timing.
     
  18.  
    Quasar Jones

    Quasar Jones Member

    what pressure are you assuming for your hypro nozzle suggestion? 80 to 100 PSI still work? description has flow rates for 40 -150 psi, but not sure if there's some tribal knowledge I'm missing for these hypro nozzles.
     
  19.  
    Atomizer

    Atomizer Well-Known Member

    80psi minimum on the 0.7`s, 125psi minimum on the 0.4`s
     
  20.  
    Quasar Jones

    Quasar Jones Member

    Do you use the standard aquatec shut off switch? Mine seems to be going from 60 to 100 psi.

    Anyways here's day two. The second batch of clones didn't root too well, will ditch my on off timer, and leave that thing running.
    I see more fine roots than when it started, but still pretty weak. I added a humidity dome, hopefully that helps them get acclimated.

    Links to nozzle demonstration:




     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Oct 4, 2016

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