First Time, Small Scale, Super Secret!

HERBAL ADDICT - Thanks again! Glad you're sticking with me. Still no seedlings, though I planted two more sprouted seeds today in jiffy-7 pots. I had been told that 2700K would work to sprout seedlings and grow them for a bit, but that I would definitely need 6500K for veg. Since I'm still not seeing any good growth, I'm going to swap out two of my 2700's for 6500's and see if that helps.

Question: Could temp variation be stunting growth? Depending on ambient temps, I'm going from 60-90F.

Random Pic

Another pic of my bare peat pellets wouldn't help anyone, but look at this delicious breakfast I made! 6 strips of bacon, 4 eggs cooked "inside" 4 slices of toast...in bacon grease... :drool:

Why don't I have seedlings?

Seeds
Seeds are placed on a damp paper towel, which is folded over and sealed inside a plastic bag.

The bag is placed underneath of a plate in my grow area.

Grow Area
My grow area is in my attic. It is not enclosed. Temps vary from 60-90F (16.6-32.2C)

Lights
The lighting rig has three 42W, 2700K CFLs, which hang 3" from the tops of my pots.

Pots
When seeds have germinated in the paper towel, I transplant them to hydrated jiffy-7 peat pellets.
They are inserted, root tip down, then covered with a sprinkling of peat.

Progress
4/10 Seeds placed in wet paper towel to germ
4/12 Seeds in paper towel put under plate for darkness
4/14 Germinated seed, with 1/4" root, transplanted to jiffy-7 peat pellet/pot
Lights switched to 24/0
4/15 Second seed germinates, is planted in jiffy-7
Up until this point, the lights and plants have been wrapped in tinfoil. It is possible that temperatures in excess of 90F (32C) may have been reached. Foil removed.
4/16 Third seed germinated, planted. Peat pellets are kept moist with a daily sprinkling of water
4/19 Still no seedlings. 20+ bagseeds placed in paper towel to germinate
4/20 Despite it being 420, WeedGod hasn't bestowed me with a seedling. Total of 7 germed seeds have been planted in pots...

So the first seed germed and placed in a jiffy-7 has had 6 days to sprout. Maybe it was cooked in my tinfoil oven.

In the past two days I've changed things around, redistributing the peat so the seeds aren't totally buried, germinating and planting new seeds. I guess I won't start to get freaked out for another 4 days without seedlings.

obelisk said:

Why don't I have seedlings?

Seeds
Seeds are placed on a damp paper towel, which is folded over and sealed inside a plastic bag.

The bag is placed underneath of a plate in my grow area.

Grow Area
My grow area is in my attic. It is not enclosed. Temps vary from 60-90F (16.6-32.2C)

Lights
The lighting rig has three 42W, 2700K CFLs, which hang 3" from the tops of my pots.

Pots
When seeds have germinated in the paper towel, I transplant them to hydrated jiffy-7 peat pellets.
They are inserted, root tip down, then covered with a sprinkling of peat.

Progress
4/10 Seeds placed in wet paper towel to germ

Lights on 18/6​

4/12 Seeds in paper towel put under plate for darkness

One seed has germinated​

4/14 Germinated seed, with 1/4" root, transplanted to jiffy-7 peat pellet/pot
Lights switched to 24/0
4/15 Second seed germinates, is planted in jiffy-7
Up until this point, the lights and plants have been wrapped in tinfoil. It is possible that temperatures in excess of 90F (32C) may have been reached. Foil removed.
4/16 Third seed germinated, planted. Peat pellets are kept moist with a daily sprinkling of water
4/19 Still no seedlings. 20+ bagseeds placed in paper towel to germinate
4/20 Despite it being 420, WeedGod hasn't bestowed me with a seedling. Total of 7 germed seeds have been planted in pots...

So the first seed germed and placed in a jiffy-7 has had 6 days to sprout. Maybe it was cooked in my tinfoil oven.

In the past two days I've changed things around, redistributing the peat so the seeds aren't totally buried, germinating and planting new seeds. I guess I won't start to get freaked out for another 4 days without seedlings.

Click to expand...

Hey there O. I think the temperature may had something to do with your situation here. The seeds and young sprouts will be stressed out and therefore grow slowly or not at all. I'm sure you know that even the trip from the paper towel, to the pellet will cause some serious stress on them if the taproot is ever so slightly damaged. What I'm saying is that your seeds may have had a nervous breakdown. Do you have any more to sprout?

Another issue may be the depth at which they were planted. I plant about an eighth of an inch deep. I keep temps between 74-82 degrees by setting on top of my cable box. Temps there are fairly stable. I have germed everything planted so far using green house method. My first attempt was with a paper towel with old seeds, didn't even get a taproot . I do belive in soaking the seeds for a short amount of time but, I have not soked longer than 6 hours so far, that is determined by the seeds. I learned here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAkrkmsBffo&feature=related
there are 2 other parts to this video and another 8 part series on germination from this guy. I believe it's good stuff, so here you go. Good luck, I hope this helps.

well unfortunatley i got a eating dissorder so that breckfast is my worst nightmare,,lol,,
i gota say i only eva used them peat disks once with some free seeds i got about 2 year back and none grew..
i just assumed they wernt healthy seedlings ,
my first 2 grows, iv gota admit i just put sprouts strait in to mg soil in 4inch pots and they grew into beasts,,
my 3rd grow i done the same again but with a different strain and they sprouted sweet, all ov them, its just a case of not over watering,, the reason i swaped mg for un fertilized soil is coz towards budding the plant needs different n,p,k ratios and with mg u have the same through out the grow and its difficult to add nutes to ,appart from bloom stimulaters and boosters,
so now im using plain soil&perlite i controll what they eat ,, wich is (bio canna vega for veg, and advanced nutriants organic iguana juice bloom for bud)
it is true what ppl say,, that u cant get the most out of your plants with mg,, but saying that ,the sativas i grew in mg were monsters and buds were fat,dense,very (VERY) sticky and really potent the colas were over a ounce each when dry, i didnt take off any leafs or any branches threw the whole grow,
i think i got a pic ov 1 ov my mg grown sativas sumwhere, cud probly find it if u wanna see an mg plant?, woz only my 2nd grow,,

and your temps need to be stable id say around 75/80f works 4me

heres some basics u mite find usefull

Temperature, Humidity and Ph

Below are some of the most important aspects of successful growing. If you can achieve these desired levels of temperature, ph and humidity for your plants they will thrive.

Temperature

An ideal temperature for your plants during daylight is 24°c to 28°c. A slightly higher temperature wouldn't be a disaster but too much over 30°c and you'll run into problems as the plant expends a lot of energy trying to keep itself cool and photosynthesis slows down resulting in underdeveloped flowers and fruits.

At night the closer you can keep your plant temperature to your daytime temperature the better your plants will perform. If there is a big difference between these two temperatures your plants will stretch and grow quite spindly.

Nutrient temperature

An ideal temperature for your nutrients would be 18-20°c. Keeping nutrients and additives at a good temperature is important as chemical reactions within the solution increase or sometimes only happen when the water is at an appropriate temperature.

Humidity

Humidity is not a key factor in growing but too low a humidity will slow growth and too high a humidity will cause pathogens to flourish. Humidity of 40% to 65% would be ideal, what you'll find is that humidity will rise throughout your growing cycle as the plants take on more water as they get bigger.

PH

PH is critical to the plants ability to uptake nutrients and additives. In soil PH should be in the range 6.0 to 7.0, in hydroponics PH should be in the range 5.8 to 6.2.

In recirculating hydroponics PH rises as the nutrient goes around the system so some schools of thought say you should start the PH lower at around 5.5 to allow for this. In a perfect world you would adjust the PH every day or so to 5.8-6.2 but if this isn't possible starting at a lower PH around 5.5 in recirculating systems would be a good idea.

wow HERBAL ADDICT, you are so helpful! This thread is turning into a little personalized weed growing manual for me! I hope others are finding it useful, as well.

So temperature definitely plays a huge role in my struggle to fully germinate. How can I regulate the temperature in my attic? Answer: I can't...not cheaply.

I guess I have to build an enclosure!


I sketched this up after looking over some plans in the GROW FAQ.

It's a cube, 2x2x2'. The front 1x2x2' is a bookshelf. The back is represented in the sketch.
Thick Black Lines = Airflow pipes
These will not exit out the sides, but out the back.
Powerlines will run through the pipes
Red Lines = Direction of Airflow

Left chamber
Bonsai Mothers and Cloner
24/0 light from 6500K CFLs

Right chamber
perpetual SOG flowering
12/12/ light from 2700K CFLs
Bathroom Fan pulls air out, forces through carbon filter

Where's the vegging area?
Clones, once rooted, will be put directly into 12/12 flowering. This is based on Dr. Bud Greengenes' perpetual SOG method, which has been discussed in great detail on other threads.

Constructive Criticism, Please!​

i grow so simple, and this keeps my temp and humidity sweeeeeet

all i use is a double wardrobe,
put it in the corner of a room
take the back of the wardrobe off and build back to fill the corner space behind the wardrobe
1 vent at the top because heat rises
i took a 4" 12v fan out ov a pc
cut a 4" hole out of the top ov wardrobe (opposite side to the vent)and mount the fan in
the fan takes the cool fresh air out of the room and pushes it in to the wardrobe forcing all old air out of the vent
the pc fan allthough its mounted at the top it is still breezy 5ft below and able to sway the plants
wardrobe is half mylar and half matt white inside

i dont want a carbon filter as i love waking up so the stink ov weed and the wardrobe has circulating air at all times

my little simple set up
floor space is about 1.5m2 inside
height 6ft
u see inside the first set of propper wardrobe doors i built a partition with 2 doors on it
1 low door
1 high door
for access
no light escapes
no light enters
once i shut the doors it just looks like a bran new ikea wardrobe lol
so appart from the stink. wich i like, it is totaly stealth, undetectable,
if thers a knock on the door i just shut the bedroom door and blast a bit ov doederant on ,
however when the bedroom door is shut u cant smell it anyway just a bit ov paranoia on my behalf

as u probly know u can produce a goood yeild in a metre square,
some growers grow 16 plants in a square metre

i only do 5 maximum, as i smoke it all to my self, and grow is a hobby for me not a money maker, allthough when ive been generous enough to part with some it goes for 10 a g and ppl love to get a few Gs off me

only 4 on this grow because i intend on growing 5.5 ft indicas

i dont use clones for the simple reason that every grow i grow a different strain

well u see my little set up, and u see the healthyness of me g-bombs, i just put em in there and pull em out when they full ov bud,, lol

Hey O just read most of ur thread hope u get 1 to pop. im also useing Mg potting soil this is my frist grow i got 10 plants in a grow tent all r working on 4 weeks on veggi. Im use Mg pot mix and mg perlite i also have mg nute all purpose plant food 8-7-6 this is my frist grow i started with a home made cardboard grow box big enough to fit a 4foot fls. tubes i started in peat moss also like u cover the end side of the box with foil lights on 24/7 this part might help u ---> i germ my seeds by putting them in a cup of water and letting them sit in the water for 1-3 days i aslo add a drop of super thrive when the root showed i place them in peat pellets the peat pellets came with a humidome big enough for 10 pellets i sat the humidonme over a (heat pad) with 24/7 lights in a few days had a sprout now my babies 3.5 weeks old still veggin under a 400 wat MH. I did use nutes after 2 1/2 weeks then they realy took off hope this help but me and u r in the same boat frist grow still newbies gl to u

Thanks Jester, Herbal, and Really?! I didn't see your post before, Really?, thanks for the info!

It definitely looks like temp is my problem. I sealed the jiffys in with plastic wrap (greenhouse technique), and until I can build my amazing cabinet of doom, I'm thinking of modifying a cardboard box to help keep temps warmer.

Will I go to hell if I put tinfoil on the walls of the cardboard box?

Herbal your grow setup is hella sweet. I actually have an empty IKEA wardrobe just like that...

use it, wardrobes are sweet man.

Little update:

Put everything into a cardboard box, covered the top opening with paper towels. Seems to keep the temps above 70F (21C), instead of 60 like before.
Today I planted four more paper-towel germed seeds into jiffy-7s. Three of the germed seeds had nearly 1" root tips, so here's hopin I see some leaves soon!

Finally got some seedlings! Here's a big ol' update

Two days ago, I switched my lights to 18/6, planted 4 promising germed seeds into jiffy-7s, and put them into a chinese-food container (pictured).

I didn't check on them yesterday, but I should have, because today I found seedlings pressed up against the lid! :Shocked:

One of them looked like it might have a bit of mold on one of it's cotyledons, but I'm just gonna wait and see. Hopefully, if it is mold, it won't infect my other plants.

The outside of my setup. The cardboard box with paper towels laid over the top seems to keep temps ~70-80F


Yay! Seedlings!


I cut holes in the bottoms of 16 oz. cups...


I put a little piece of paper towel at the bottom, followed by a small handful of perlite, then 70/30 MG and perlite. The rubberbands are just to keep them from falling over.



Then I carefully positioned my lights (still 2700K ) 3 inches away from each plant.









Here you can see the chinese food container with some new germed seeds.


I've germed all of the bagseeds that can germ, so unless I buy seeds, I'm officially out of the germ stage.

Some of the newly germed seeds had taproots with a lovely fuzz of micro fibers for taking up water. I also re-planted some of the seeds that hadn't grown yet, even though the seeds had popped. I'm pretty sure that my adventures with tin-foil baked some of my seeds.

And yes, that is tin foil along the bottom of the box, but I haven't had problems, yet .

My god. It's so good to finally see some green!

hello obelisk,

Just read through your ENTIRE grow journel, lol, good read. I love how creative you are getting, and the materials your useing, good stuff.

Let me just say personally i hate MG. I find it burns, and for seedlings, never a good idea, though alot here might say other wise, i wont say thier wrong, just i found different.

You seem to be interested in doing it right, so everything else will fall into place.

Check out my journel, its in my signature, i always liek new people to comment. i am subscribed to your's now, so i will be watching.

Good luck!!

ahaa your back, and with lings,, gud job,, lights are 2 close tho, to intense , thats why they bending allover they dont know wich way to head for light. honestly,, 1 bulb will be sweet until they get a few leafs because them 3 bulbs in there will evaporate water through your leafs/plant faster than the small ball can take water in,, thats why u got floppy plants, i dont want them to die just as much as u dont as ive seen the effort you have put in to them,, my crops all got topped yesterday.. hoping to fill the drobe completely with bud lol,

dj crane said:

hello obelisk,

Just read through your ENTIRE grow journel, lol, good read. I love how creative you are getting, and the materials your useing, good stuff.

Let me just say personally i hate MG. I find it burns, and for seedlings, never a good idea, though alot here might say other wise, i wont say thier wrong, just i found different.

You seem to be interested in doing it right, so everything else will fall into place.

Check out my journel, its in my signature, i always liek new people to comment. i am subscribed to your's now, so i will be watching.

Good luck!!

Click to expand...

miracle grow alone is fine,
miracle grow mixed with other shits is no bueno,

dj crane Great to have you along! You read the ENTIRE thread? You poor thing, how many pictures of plain dirt can one stomach? At least there was a little bit of green payoff at the end, yah? I'm definitely heading over to your thread. I'll put in my two nooby cents whenever I can.

HERBAL ADDICT and growman3666, I can't tell you guys how much I appreciate a couple of experienced growers holding my hand through this whole thing. Do you like reps? I'll give you some if you want em

HERBAL Good eye! The stems were all twisty because they were growing against the lid of my chinese container. It's a few hours later now, and the stems are straight. I'll definitely follow your advice, though, and turn off two of my bulbs.

Also, one of the seeds in my new set of jiffys has already begun to reach for the light! I wish I knew exactly what I did wrong before...is there something magical about chinese food containers as opposed to a cereal bowl with saran wrap over the top? We may never know...

Also, the leaf that looked a little moldy (bluish brown on the bottom) seems to be functioning OK, it's just the wrong color. Everyone cross your fingers!

What's better after I grow these lings for 1 week?
A "perpetual" grow in which I cycle flower and reveg
OR
A perpetual grow using clones?

u want to re-veg after flower???????????????? go for clones,, i just done 8 clones with the tops i took off the plants,, im guna empty another wardrobe ,,lol,, and bud them at same time as the big ones,, sweet my 4 plants now become 12,
yea 3 bulbs on week 1 cud end up bleaching the clorophyl in the lings leafs turning them patchy and half as efficent,,
just thought,, heres an idea,,
1 set ov leafs = 1 bulb
2 sets =2 bulbs
3rd set =3 bulbs..
this is the delicate part of the grow as the lings can easily just croak it threw stress,,lol when i got my first ever seed,and germd it ,it was doing good ,only 3 days old, and like an idiot i thought it put it in the sun for a few hours, and when i went bak 1hr l8r it was un recogniseable,, dead,, like a shrivvled blede ov grass,,
i aint a expert m8,, far from it but i spend most the day learnin&reading about growing,, allthough i grow small numbers at a time,, and grow them in soil (wich whoops the taste ov hydro bud) i know enough to set up any grow system, and ive got contacts that work at growell hydroponics (best in uk) so im constantly picking things up along the way .

can u get canna products over there where u are?

and yea dont mind a bit of +rep m8