Founding Fathers Revisited

newatit2010

Well-Known Member
Overseas or locally, it's still the big dogs that end up with our taxes. Maybe if we'd of kept the monarchy, (Not my choice) we'd have medicare for all, a much more inclusive medical system then the giveaway to the corporate insurance companies we have now.
It was the unions that built the middle class and the elites are hell bent on dismanteling them. That one action by itself should be a war cry to the middle class. If the middle class doesn't stand up to the right wingers on this position, they can kiss their middle class jobs goodby. What we are seeing by the right wing and tea party is an assault on workers and their way of life. It is time for this nonesense to be recognized and stopped. It took a lot of bloodshed by union organizers and workers desiring a better way of life to get the current middle class. My question is this: Will they stand by and watch it dismanteled? If Wisconson is any sign of things to come, I believe the people will survive with their unions intact. Those republicans that voted this carnage into law will be recalled or impeached, mark my words. The voters will not forget. Their unemployment will run out about election time next year, good luck repukes, good luck.


Since we belong to england our taxes would be going there. Well now you have odumbass care one that will bankrupt the country you should be happy. Just no more passing the hospitals with all those people lying around dying because they did not have medicare. And as far as the unions being middle class the bastards think they should be the upper class. That is why they can ruin a company by going on strike. Do you know any union member that are rich? NO but their bosses are. The teachers can molest a child and can not be fired because they are union. Yes I am one of those Tea Party Republicians that want the unions out of the governments pocket. If you privatise the unions they would be broke, so you think this is the best way for your tax dollars to be spent is to support unions. We will see what happens but I think the unions are going to be a thing of the past. The new republician ad out has some clown that runs the union talking about them not being insterted in children or schools they or powerful because 3.2 million union members pay them hundreds of millions of dollars in dues. Great ad. On your way out today make sure the hosipital is taking care of all those people dying out their front door. And make sure you support those unions they need the money. Thanks have a great day.
 

Ernst

Well-Known Member
Well if not for the fore fathers we would be sending our taxes over seas. And didn't they come here with money or Maybe the bastards earned it? I want to know what people think redisburtion will do? To me they will get their 50 dollars after it is redisturbed and they are expecting on millions(dumb shits). Then we have a country that nobody has the money to run a bussiness so no jobs. And where do they think their next 50 dollar check comes from then???

LOL What makes you think we are not sending our tax dollars overseas?

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
I will only say that having slaves and then saying all man are create equal shows the logics of most of the so called "founding fathers"...hypocrites if you ask me...I know most like to sugar coat history but it is what it is..many abolitionists were disgusted with the founding fathers, including Thomas Paine and William Penn
 

puffntuff

Well-Known Member
Socialism is for the weak. Here's a handout now are you happy?? I'm a proud libertarian that just wants left alone. Big gov= getting fucked big time. Obamacare is a joke!! We already had nationwide healthcare it's called go to the hospital they have to take care of you. Its sad that some people are to lazy to do something productive with their lives. Move to Sweden if you wanna be taken care of along with 70% of your money going to taxes. No thanks fuck the left fuck the right neither group ever does shit right. It's time for the middle to make the decisions.
 

Ernst

Well-Known Member
Socialism is for the weak. Here's a handout now are you happy?? I'm a proud libertarian that just wants left alone. Big gov= getting fucked big time. Obamacare is a joke!! We already had nationwide healthcare it's called go to the hospital they have to take care of you. Its sad that some people are to lazy to do something productive with their lives. Move to Sweden if you wanna be taken care of along with 70% of your money going to taxes. No thanks fuck the left fuck the right neither group ever does shit right. It's time for the middle to make the decisions.


Here is a person willing to take the lead in paying for his oxygen!

Good man.. I claim all oxygen and you own me a monthly fee..

Sounds like a sweetheart business to be in..

By the way what is "Too Big to fail?" Enterprises that fail were supposed to be the things that made our Capital system great.. That whoever comes along with a better way wins the day.
We all know that our Capitalism is not Capitalism now it's plutocracy.
 

Carl Spackler

Well-Known Member
Ahhh yes...the wonderful teachers unions It protects tenured educators no matter how incompetent they may be. In N.Y. state the procedures for firing a teacher that molests a child is stupefying long and litigious. After multiple appeals they normally end up in a special "class" with other fellow offenders playing cards, drinking coffee and collecting a check. I have been fortunate enough (scratch that...hard working enough is more accurate) to send my 2 kids to private schools were this type of behavior and shitty-level of instruction is not an issue. Anyone want to take a wild stab at how much extra it costs you to buy a piece-of-crap american made car because of unions? No wonder the Japanese continue to take us behind the woodshed in that department. Unions...gotta love 'em.
 

Ernst

Well-Known Member
Unions are workers..Workers are neighbours and friends not to mention parents and children.

You hate unionised children?

I'm all for unions for child labor everywhere in the world children still are forced to work for food.
 

Tomoyo

Active Member
How do you figure capitalism is bad?? Lol im all for it. I don't know about you, but I don't want my government holding my hand and telling me how I should live my life.
 

Ernst

Well-Known Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geQrt1LDvu8

Without some force to counter exploitation there is no level of existence too low for those being exploited.

We are pampered pets in the USA.. We have forgotten what our Grandparents have fought for that we have and we can lose.

Have a watch and see what Capitalism sponsors.

Maybe poor black children are not important as long as the gem stones we wear as Bling-Bling are affordable..

When I see Capitalism as the saviours of the world is the day I have nothing bad to say..

You have see that people are losing homes and jobs here yes?
 

Hudsonvalley82

Well-Known Member
I just think that we all have to come to terms with the fact that all men are created equal but the situations they are created in are not equal.

People aren't the same, there is constant conflict and strife. People talk about the printing of money recklessly, but there still is a finite quantity of it. If you make a buck, someone spends or loses a buck.

The 400 wealthiest citizens of this nation have the same buying power of the bottom 200 million combined. There is a lot of that finite money tied up in those 400 people. Natural tendencies lean towards there being a line that the wealthy will cross in which the remainder of the population cannot permit the levels of resources held by those top 400. Thats how things happen. Im not saying there will be violence, or some great revolution, sometimes things change over time, however they tend to level out on large scale timelines. Nothing can last for long when dealing with people. Especially when money is thrown in the equation.

Being wealthy is not a crime, but when the wealthy use their influence to increase their wealth, that gets a little murky. Protecting your wealth generally seen as acceptable. Using your wealth and power to manipulate circumstances with the intent to unfairly increase your wealth is something else.

Also just to throw it out there: I see no difference between capitalism and socialism. There are just as many deserving people held down by both systems. There are just as many undeserving people with power.

On a large scale:
In socialism money comes from power.
In capitalism power comes from money.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Capitalism is an ugly dog you feed so it will leave you alone another day.
True capitalism seems very scarce.

Credit to Don Armentano for the following post :




It's all the current fashion to dump on "capitalism."
It was the greedy free market, supposedly, that created both the housing bubble and the housing bust and led, inevitably, to the "great recession." Capitalism, according to most liberal pundits (and even Alan Greenspan in a bad mood), is an inherently risky and unstable system that requires government regulation to correct its flaws and moderate its excesses.
Let me dissent sharply from that conventional wisdom and argue that what talking heads are calling "capitalism" is actually "crony capitalism" and that it is crony capitalism that is responsible for most of our current economic difficulties.
A genuine capitalist economy assumes that each adult individual and business is free to buy and sell anything that they own and then keep the rewards (or suffer the losses) of enterprise. The only legitimate role for government (the political system) is to protect property rights, that is, to enforce contracts and prohibit theft and fraud.



So under capitalism, there would be no price controls on milk or mandates to purchase health insurance; BUT polluters who spill crude oil or corporate bandits like Bernie Madoff who commit blatant frauds would be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
Crony capitalism, by contrast, assumes a far, far larger role for government in the economy. In this system, government employs various regulations, taxes, and subsidies to encourage or discourage specific economic activity that the political system considers desirable. For example, in crony capitalism, farm prices and outputs could be regulated; selected companies could get TARP money for commercial research projects; states could regulate liability and health insurance companies; and Freddy Mac and Fannie Mae could both exist to subsidize the real estate market. And most importantly, in crony capitalism private firms that are considered "too big to fail" could be bailed out by government; and a central bank (the Federal Reserve) would exist to “print money” (unrelated to any gold reserve) and regulate the supply of credit in the economy.

It is hard to argue that the current economic malaise was in any way produced by anything resembling pure capitalism. But it is fairly easy to conclude that interventionism, i.e., private markets that were propped up with fraud and funny money was, in fact, the culprit.
First, the Federal Reserve kept interest rates too low for too long (2001—2006) and pumped excess money and credit into the economy. Second, numerous quasi-governmental agencies (Freddie and Fanny) encouraged excessive mortgage lending and home ownership out of all relationship to sound financial practices.
Third, much of the under-capitalized and over-leveraged banking industry collapsed when (federal) credit dried up and housing prices turned downward. And fourth, the federal government taxpayer and international lenders (mostly China) funded the trillion-dollar government "stimulus" plan and the bailout of inefficient business organizations (Chrysler, GM, AIG, etc.) that should have been allowed to go belly-up.
This is free market capitalism? Hardly.
Yet the political class, always absolving itself of all blame, would have you believe that capitalist greed caused the recession and that political regulators need more power. Not so. What we actually require are constraints on monetary growth, more competitive markets, balanced budgets and less output-restricting regulation. But first and foremost, before we spend and regulate further, we require an informed media and an enlightened public that can distinguish real capitalism from phony, crony capitalism.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Hello Hudson Valley 82

You said "People aren't the same, there is constant conflict and strife. People talk about the printing of money recklessly, but there still is a finite quantity of it. If you make a buck, someone spends or loses a buck. "

Not exactly... wealth CAN be created as long as there exists labor and raw materials, wealth or "money" is not as finite as you state. Of course resurces in a given area are finite, but labor can be exchanged for a "buck" .

In that transaction there exists a fair exhange if a free market exists...nobody "spent" a buck in the sense that EACH PARTY derived a benefit. The person that received the benefit of the labor has their need met . Nobody "lost" a buck either as the person performing the labor "exchanged" it for the buck from the person receiving his labor.

It's almost like a mutual orgasm...without all the moaning.
 

Tomoyo

Active Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geQrt1LDvu8

Without some force to counter exploitation there is no level of existence too low for those being exploited.

We are pampered pets in the USA.. We have forgotten what our Grandparents have fought for that we have and we can lose.

Have a watch and see what Capitalism sponsors.

Maybe poor black children are not important as long as the gem stones we wear as Bling-Bling are affordable..

When I see Capitalism as the saviours of the world is the day I have nothing bad to say..

You have see that people are losing homes and jobs here yes?

What our grandparents fought for? You don't need to tell me that so..whatever. You're blaming capitalism entirely on this country's situation sounds to me and none of these cocksucking bureaucrats and politicians should be held accountable? What rock do you live under? HAh...No. Tell you what, you can save me the video. This is about as much as a liberal biased statement if I ever saw one.
 

Hudsonvalley82

Well-Known Member
Well the difference is that the person who got the buck can spend it again, as he now holds the purchasing power of the currency. The labor cannot be transferred into purchasing power. That is just one benign situation however, what you need to think about is when that dollar goes uphill into larger corporations which is step one into wealth getting to the already wealthy. Thats when that dollar gets lost. The wealthy tend not to throw around their money in the same percentages as the middle and lower class do, which leads to dollars and resources being tied up for long periods of time. This overtime puts strain on the normal cash flow for the rest of us. There is a shortage of wealth going around.

And no, wealth cannot be created, just transferred. You can find resources, and get money for it, however that doesn't necessarily mean the treasury has printed more cash b/c you found some resources. You didn't create new wealth, you just collected other peoples in exchange for your resources or what have you. That's how things hold value. As a matter of fact, if you find raw materials and sell them, there is a good chances that you have devalued the materials by putting a larger quantity of it on the market. This is chiefly due to the increase of that materials abundance on the market place and the finite quantity of dollars, unless there is a huge spike in demand.

Hello Hudson Valley 82

You said "People aren't the same, there is constant conflict and strife. People talk about the printing of money recklessly, but there still is a finite quantity of it. If you make a buck, someone spends or loses a buck. "

Not exactly... wealth CAN be created as long as there exists labor and raw materials, wealth or "money" is not as finite as you state. Of course resurces in a given area are finite, but labor can be exchanged for a "buck" .

In that transaction there exists a fair exhange if a free market exists...nobody "spent" a buck in the sense that EACH PARTY derived a benefit. The person that received the benefit of the labor has their need met . Nobody "lost" a buck either as the person performing the labor "exchanged" it for the buck from the person receiving his labor.

It's almost like a mutual orgasm...without all the moaning.
 

newatit2010

Well-Known Member
As I understand it Wealth is Global but Poverty is national.

I'd vote for revitalizing our manufacturing sector and provide good pay and jobs for all.


Yes that is what we need more manufacturing. What dumbass would open a business when he has to pay 3or4 times the labor cost because the unions? Why waste your time and money to have to redisturbuit your wealth? That is the reason all the manufacturing is overseas now.
 

Ernst

Well-Known Member
Well what I read is the people are the problem not the system.

Anyone suggesting the system change, also are a problem.

Am I missing anything?

In my mind private wealth should have a limit.

The limit should reflect what is best for the planet.

Call it what you want.
 

Ernst

Well-Known Member
What our grandparents fought for? You don't need to tell me that so..whatever. You're blaming capitalism entirely on this country's situation sounds to me and none of these cocksucking bureaucrats and politicians should be held accountable? What rock do you live under? HAh...No. Tell you what, you can save me the video. This is about as much as a liberal biased statement if I ever saw one.
Are you Female? Is that your picture?

My People fought for things like labor rights. Grandparents is a loose term. More like our fore-parents.

I'm happy to be a part of the conversation.

Agree or Disagree what matters is we are talking and thinking.
That's what is important especially for re-legalizing.

We cannot depend on our Canna-Wealthy to act in the best interest of our Canna-poor.
 

Ernst

Well-Known Member
Yes that is what we need more manufacturing. What dumbass would open a business when he has to pay 3or4 times the labor cost because the unions? Why waste your time and money to have to redisturbuit your wealth? That is the reason all the manufacturing is overseas now.
I have asked what dumbass supports a capital system that allows jobs to leave?
It's that idea that the wealth of the world is infinite and private.
The problem is Capitalism and it's people are allowed to do these things.
 

newatit2010

Well-Known Member
I have asked what dumbass supports a capital system that allows jobs to leave?
It's that idea that the wealth of the world is infinite and private.
The problem is Capitalism and it's people are allowed to do these things.


We do Ernst we live here we do.

And so Ernst you mean to tell me that a company that you owned should only make so much money a year and close down? Or is it that only you the owner can make so much money? You get paid your limit in 2 months and would work 10 months free? not really what you mean by limited pay? What about the unions when the reach their limit does that mean they can't go on strike for more money? I'm lost
 
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