FU DNC

Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
his entire cabinet had the numbers to get in anyway and manchin is up for reelection in a deeply red state next year.

and booker voted against a NON-BINDING resolution that was purely symbolic, while voting in favor of an actual amendment which would lower drug prices, along with all 13 other democrats who voted against the non-binding resolution.

the amendment failed on party lines. we should be pounding the GOP to death with this, not cannibalizing each other without understanding these very simple details first.
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So using your logic, you think it's better to have a Democratic senator in congress who agrees with Trump more than 70% of the time than it is to primary his bitch ass with an actual progressive in the same state Bernie Sanders beat Hillary Clinton in in the Democratic primary by more than 15 points. Explain that, please

12 Democrats and 39 Republicans voted against it
32 Democrats and 12 Republicans voted for it

That's not failing on party lines, see here;

Bennet (D-CO) - 2022 https://ballotpedia.org/Michael_Bennet

Booker (D-NJ) - 2020 https://ballotpedia.org/Cory_Booker

Cantwell (D-WA) - 2018 https://ballotpedia.org/Maria_Cantwell

Carper (D-DE) - 2018 https://ballotpedia.org/Thomas_R._Carper

Casey (D-PA) - 2018 https://ballotpedia.org/Bob_Casey,_Jr.

Coons (D-DE) - 2020 https://ballotpedia.org/Chris_Coons

Donnelly (D-IN) - 2018 https://ballotpedia.org/Joe_Donnelly

Heinrich (D-NM) - 2018 https://ballotpedia.org/Martin_Heinrich

Heitkamp (D-ND) - 2018 https://ballotpedia.org/Heidi_Heitkamp

Menendez (D-NJ) - 2018 https://ballotpedia.org/Robert_Menendez

Murray (D-WA) - 2022 https://ballotpedia.org/Patty_Murray

Tester (D-MT) - 2018 https://ballotpedia.org/Jon_Tester

Warner (D-VA) - 2020 https://ballotpedia.org/Mark_Warner


 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
heitkamp is up for reelection in north dakota next year. of course she is trying to present herself as a "compromise candidate", it's a deeply red state.

all cabinet appointments need is 51 votes to get through, democrats are literally powerless to stop any of them unless they get republican help. so of course the red state dems are gonna try to placate their base.

this is politics 101.
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Why would a progressive support a candidate who feels they need to placate republican constituents?

Fuck those people, all of them need to go. They don't represent progressives
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
"no real" (snicker)

So, Manchin represents the Democratic Party? He represents a rural California district. I mean, duh, he's not a flaming left winger. The Democratic party needs to make room for more than Sanders and his supporters. We need blue dog Democrats who I guarantee you won't like if any progress in red states is to be made.

Bernie's bill was DOA based upon the majority held in the Senate by the GOP. Was I happy with Booker on his vote? No. But his vote against it was his, not the entire Democratic Senate caucus's. Nor was it Perez's.

The DNC is important in an administrative function that ought to be run by a competent administrator. One of the criticisms of having Ellison as head is he's a sitting Congressman and has no business dividing his attention to run the DNC. Having him involved but not responsible for the daily goings on at the DNC is a good thing.
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Manchin is the senator from West Virginia. Ellison said he would have resigned his seat in congress if he won chair. Simple facts, right..?

DINOs are enemies just as much as Republicans. Establishment Democrats are enemies just as much as Republicans. Even if they win, progressives still lose.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
So using your logic, you think it's better to have a Democratic senator in congress who agrees with Trump more than 70% of the time than it is to primary his bitch ass with an actual progressive in the same state Bernie Sanders beat Hillary Clinton in in the Democratic primary by more than 15 points. Explain that, please
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ok, so primary heitkamp and manchin and lose two more seats in the senate because of their votes which would have done nothing to stop trump's cabinet picks.

now you have two less votes for a health care reform bill later, which would be more than just symbolic.

did you forget that more than just democratic people in north dakota and west virginia get to vote for senator?

and the votes you listed were for a NON-BINDING RESOLUTION.

here is the party line vote on an amendment for lower drug costs that i was referring to.

https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=115&session=1&vote=00021#position
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Why would a progressive support a candidate who feels they need to placate republican constituents?

Fuck those people, all of them need to go. They don't represent progressives
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your stupid fucking purity demands are asinine and counterproductive. the world does not revolve around you. the democratic party is a huge tent. if you can't see the value in a few meaningless throwaway votes now to keep democrats in their seats and caucusing for much more major legislation later, than don't bother politicking.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
ok, so primary heitkamp and manchin and lose two more seats in the senate
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By primarying DINOs, progressives win seats in the senate because progressives support winning policy positions that working class voters in both blue and red states support.

What do you win by supporting DINOs that support Trump more than 70% of the time? Symbolism?
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
your stupid fucking purity demands are asinine and counterproductive.
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If you think demanding politicians represent the people that vote for them over the corporations that fund their campaigns is a "stupid fucking purity test", you are not a progressive
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
By primarying DINOs, progressives win seats in the senate because progressives support winning policy positions that working class voters in both blue and red states support.

What do you win by supporting DINOs that support Trump more than 70% of the time? Symbolism?
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who's the progressive that's gonna win a senate seat in north dakota?

name, please.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Sanders won North Dakota by an even bigger margin than West Virginia (39 points)

Many progressives, including people who normally vote Republican, exist in these states, and right now they're mad and looking for viable direction. DINO's like Manchin and Heitkamp don't inspire progressives to vote. Run a real progressive and it will.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Manchin is the senator from West Virginia. Ellison said he would have resigned his seat in congress if he won chair. Simple facts, right..?

DINOs are enemies just as much as Republicans.
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Manchin is not my senator but he his a Democrat and so he's not a Republican. Ridiculous to say Democrats are the same as Republicans. Not even close.

Nothing in Washington is simple.

Scorched earth ideological purity is not something I want the Democratic party to engage in. You may leave the party if you like.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Sanders won North Dakota by an even bigger margin than West Virginia (39 points)

Many progressives, including people who normally vote Republican, exist in these states, and right now they're mad and looking for viable direction. DINO's like Manchin and Heitkamp don't inspire progressives to vote. Run a real progressive and it will.
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your opinion. Thanks for it.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Manchin is not my senator but he his a Democrat and so he's not a Republican. Ridiculous to say Democrats are the same as Republicans. Not even close.

Nothing in Washington is simple.

Scorched earth ideological purity is not something I want the Democratic party to engage in. You may leave the party if you like.
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Then what does it mean to be a Democrat, to you?

If I supported Trump on more than 70% of the issues, I seriously doubt you would ever claim I could call myself a Democrat, right? So then why do you give Manchin a free pass?

Nobody is saying "Democrats are the same as Republicans". Don't argue strawmen. Manchin and Heitkamp are effective Republicans. As Buck himself pointed out, they believe they have to support more conservative positions because their election is coming up in their states that have voted red in recent elections. If they vote against what I believe and support, why would I vote for them?

This issue affects the outcome of elections. Voters like me do not want to vote for a party that takes money from corporations because I know they will then represent those corporations over average American citizens interests. All the Democrats have to do is refuse to take corporate money, refuse to finance their campaigns with super PACs. Only take individual contributions.

I left the Democratic establishment party a long time ago. Democrats will continue to lose elections so long as they accept corporate money.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Then what does it mean to be a Democrat, to you?

If I supported Trump on more than 70% of the issues, I seriously doubt you would ever claim I could call myself a Democrat, right? So then why do you give Manchin a free pass?

Nobody is saying "Democrats are the same as Republicans". Don't argue strawmen. Manchin and Heitkamp are effective Republicans. As Buck himself pointed out, they believe they have to support more conservative positions because their election is coming up in their states that have voted red in recent elections. If they vote against what I believe and support, why would I vote for them?

This issue affects the outcome of elections. Voters like me do not want to vote for a party that takes money from corporations because I know they will then represent those corporations over average American citizens interests. All the Democrats have to do is refuse to take corporate money, refuse to finance their campaigns with super PACs. Only take individual contributions.

I left the Democratic establishment party a long time ago. Democrats will continue to lose elections so long as they accept corporate money.
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You continually say the Democrats are the same as Republicans. Not buying it. If you are no longer able to endorse a diverse Democratic party then good day sir.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
You continually say the Democrats are the same as Republicans. Not buying it. If you are no longer able to endorse a diverse Democratic party then good day sir.
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What does it mean to be a Democrat, to you? Is that too tough a question?

What do you think Democratic representatives should support and strive to get fixed or change?

Do you think these people should be taking money from big business? Do you think taking money from big business influences their policy positions? Do you think they should be fighting to get working people a living wage?

Seems to me like you guys support the guys who call themselves "Democrats" who don't actually vote democratic or support Democratic positions when they're up for reelection because hey, we gotta keep an extra 'D' in congress (even if they never actually vote d...) am I right?? ..


You and Buck share a fundamentally flawed understanding of politics and government in this aspect.

2018 will prove it and 2020 will solidify it. The only thing I'm wondering now is if, then, you will accept it.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
W hey, we gotta keep an extra 'D' in congress (even if they never actually vote d...) am I right?? ..
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heitkamp's voting record is as liberal as you can be and still get elected in north dakota. she votes with the dems on almost every single issue.

tell me how you're gonna get elected in north dakota while opposing keystone.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
heitkamp's voting record is as liberal as you can be and still get elected in north dakota.
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Then why did Sanders beat Clinton in North Dakota in the primary? The more progressive candidate won in a traditionally conservative state. Why is that?
UncleBuck said:
she votes with the dems on almost every single issue.
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She's one of the biggest Democratic supporters of Trump. Why should I believe you oppose Trump if you support someone like Heitkamp who supports Trump something like 60% of the time? Do you support Trump 60% of the time?
UncleBuck said:
tell me how you're gonna get elected in north dakota while opposing keystone.
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By appealing to logic and reason to an educated crowd who is logical and reasonable

But unfortunately the DINOs you support to ensure congress get's the D don't support what you say you support.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
among democrats.

the state has more than 2 republicans for every democrat. get real.
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Then answer what I asked you earlier; why is it better to support a "Democrat" who votes republican more than 70% of the time over an actual progressive who supports the middle-class?
 
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