Grooming for light to buds

I've expanded my grow base and knowledge over the past 10 years. I don't claim to be a master grower by any means. Being retired the past three years has given be to proper time to experiment and learn. There have been long standing dissussions about the cutting of ANY leaves off a plant that doesn't need pruning. Some people say cutting the water leaves is bad, some disagree. What I'm interested in is desiging a cutting system that allows maximum light to oncoming buds without destroying or cutting leaves.

A long time ago I tried twisting leaves out of the way. That didn't work out well at all for me. Some people cut a leaves in half by cutting the top half of each leaf off which allows light to get to a bud underneath.

I've been experimenting with two grows now by cutting it differently in two ways.

This kind of growing can only be done in small gardens or if your don't have a full time job as this takes some time.

I like to keep the plant intact tha way nature brings it with one exception. First after a plant is thriving I start cutting the middle leaf off from each set. By doing that it lets a fair amount of light filter into the inner parts of the plant and doesn't take away all the work the plant did in making the leaf and it still continues to bring water/nutrients/light through that leaf. The plants loose their beauty a bit, but light and air circulation is better for sure.

The other thing I do is cut off ALL ends of leaves that have tips that have dead leaf matter just blocking light. I understand the tips don't block very much light, but it is just dead plant matter blocking inner growth.

I don't have any statistics or records of growth so I don't really know how much this helps the plants. I can say my garden is a place of spiritlul/mental healing just working in it and the medicine is so helpful.

I bought a dozen mini LED floodlights for this grow to concentrate on buds to see if they grow bigger than others around them.

I wonder if there are any suggestions of ways to improve light to buds?

Mirrors on the floor!!!!

will cutting off middle leaves harm the plants bud growth or stress the plant at all?

messed up on my reply placement.....

I wait until the plant is about 18" tall before taking any middle leaves. I don't think it stresses them doing this. You may have seen clones for sale that have the a third of the end of the leaves cut off. That doesn't stress them as the leaves don't die or curl up so I think it's okay to take the middle one completely out which does let light further into the plant. I should do a side by side study to see the effects then I'd know for sure.

I read the Canibis Grow Bible about 7 years ago. That author said mirrors are not good because they soak light in and energy is lost by the time it is bounced back. I have one tip I use that I'll start a post on. I don't know any of this stuff for certain so maybe you are correct to use mirrors.... It's a big mystery figuring out all the variables...

Medicine4Me said:

I wonder if there are any suggestions of ways to improve light to buds?

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Plant them outdoors! Can't beat the sun

The buds dont photosynthesize, the leaves do. Light to buds is not really going to do anything.
I have found it is better to LST to let budsites get light without removing fan leaves.

Please see my signature. My 50+ years growing convince me to never remove any leaf.

hotrodharley said:

Please see my signature. My 50+ years growing convince me to never remove any leaf.

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What do you think of debudding? It's a widely accepted practice with roses to create fuller flowers. I read that this can be done with Cannabis (unlike lollipopping, you leave the leaves on the plant; just remove the lower buds). I'm trying it on two of my plants to see if there is a noticeable difference in bud size (besides, I need some buds, lol).

Laney said:

What do you think of debudding? It's a widely accepted practice with roses to create fuller flowers. I read that this can be done with Cannabis (unlike lollipopping, you leave the leaves on the plant; just remove the lower buds). I'm trying it on two of my plants to see if there is a noticeable difference in bud size (besides, I need some buds, lol).

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I pluck those little popcorn buggers like it's going out of style. To a point. Yes, it makes the remaining buds bigger if not better. But there comes a point of diminishing returns. In other words any bud weight gained might not equal potential bud weight loss. As with anything moderation is suggested. Strains, different phenos and etc play a huge part s well.

Saldaw - Thank you for that info. The buds must get a small amount of photosyntesize from the leaves that are growing in each bud. However, that amount of leaves is so small I can see concentrating them on leaves is probably the smarter way to go. Thanks again - I will direct the LED's to the leaves!

• I pluck those little popcorn buggers like it's going out of style. To a point. Yes, it makes the remaining buds bigger if not better. But there comes a point of diminishing returns. In other words any bud weight gained might not equal potential bud weight loss. As with anything moderation is suggested. Strains, different phenos and etc play a huge part s well.​
  
  
  
  

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I agree with you hotrodharley - Another thing with taking the little buds on the bottom area of the plant is they will never get the lumens that the buds on the upper part of the plant will get so those buds will get bigger from redirecting the flow of energy higher up and get that good light.

I leave most of the popcorn buds, the small buds tend to be more dense and potent, but yes if there is a tiny butsite that wont even make 1g i cut it off but leave the fan leaf.

• Please see my signature. My 50+ years growing convince me to never remove any leaf.
  
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I never take a complete leaf off. Nature put them there for good reasons. What I'm talking about is on a leaf that has say 7 leaves making up the entire leaf. I'm keeping the leaf intact but reducing it to 6 fingers or leaves.

Medicine4Me said:

I never take a complete leaf off. Nature put them there for good reasons. What I'm talking about is on a leaf that has say 7 leaves making up the entire leaf. I'm keeping the leaf intact but reducing it to 6 fingers or leaves.

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But why would you remove any of it? The plant needs the leaves to make energy to grow the buds. I have never ever seen scientific evedence this helps the bud.

Wellll.... Someone has already done a very long grow journal comparing plants side by side in a soil sea of green method of growing. One group of plants he defoliated the shit out of, or lollipopped, and the other group he did not. Same strain, grown right next to eachother. Guess which plants yielded more. Like I said it's a very long journal but here is the link: http://www.420magazine.com/forums/completed-journals/138874-come-sog-me-112-plant-2-liter-hempy-sog.html.

p.s. The defoliated plants yielded more.

Villa said:

But why would you remove any of it? The plant needs the leaves to make energy to grow the buds. I have never ever seen scientific evedence this helps the bud.

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First, I'm just trying this to see if it helps let light penetrate to buds that normally are shaded over by leaves above them. I don't like the idea of cutting the plant, but pruning them does help.
Some people cut the whole leaf in half to get light in. I just thought it might be less stressful to snip the middle "fingered leaf out".

When I go to flowering, I have more than enough HPS and CFL's so it's not a question of getting enough light to them for me. I'm just trying to figure out how to get the most light to buds with the least amount of energy. For the last 10 years my power company has LOVED me as a customer.

I thought I had it bad... A person I know complained to me that his elec. bill had gone up to 3 grand a month! Of course he's making a ton in return...

SOGfarmer said:

Wellll.... Someone has already done a very long grow journal comparing plants side by side in a soil sea of green method of growing. One group of plants he defoliated the shit out of, or lollipopped, and the other group he did not. Same strain, grown right next to eachother. Guess which plants yielded more. Like I said it's a very long journal but here is the link: http://www.420magazine.com/forums/completed-journals/138874-come-sog-me-112-plant-2-liter-hempy-sog.html.

p.s. The defoliated plants yielded more.

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I read the whole thing.

What I got out of it and from personal experience, and I'll break the two down.

1) When you defoliate in flower it stresses the plant and increases your flower time, and yes you can get a little more, or you could get a little less. You really have to know what you are doing! I found out the hard way.
2) In my experience, when this is done in flower, timing is everything and I'm just not that good, that guy is a master grower and knows his plants, full stop!!
3) For me the ideal situation is to plant the clones, in my case rockwool, and veg for about two weeks. During this 2 weeks the the plants root really well and give some kind of idea, of who is going to take off and which ones are duds.
This is the time I like to sog them up and give them a day or 2 to recover. This way, there is a minimum of cutting while the plants are in 12/12. Now any stress that you put on the plant could be from super-cropping, or just leave them alone if your in a hurry.

Medicine4Me said:

I like to keep the plant intact the way nature brings

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I am no pro, so please bare with me on this, but in the wild, animals can and do eat many of the fan/water leaves off the plant. Knowing this from experience, I personally remove older growth(in the 2 week range) and I have had some nice results. It seems that removing leaves in general will cause more horizontal growth as I do not top my plants but they still grow plenty bushy. That could be genetics as well so take it for what it is. If you are successful I will incorporate your strategies into my cloning project so please keep us updated.