Hamas offensive against Israel

DIY-HP-LED said:

Generally, the majority rules and it is their will that is expressed, the rest are along for the ride, kicking and screaming they may be. Only the constitution and legal precedent provide a check on the will of the majority in any country. In America it doesn't even need to be a majority, it is whoever controls the levers of state power. In Israel there is a coalition government and there are many parties across the spectrum, but it is whatever the cabinet backed by a majority of the house think that counts. If they want to level Gaza and ignore international law, it is their call and so are the consequences. Are they fascistic? Right now, they are more fascist than they have been in a long time because so many people are pissed off and it is skewing their judgement.

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This doesn't explain how a fascist voter is a reflection upon somebody who is not. Likud is in power in Israel. This is not a reflection on somebody who voted leftist. They lost the election. That's all there is to it. They need to do better. The problem for the losers in the most recent election is that the Israeli government have clamped down on protests. They are unable to voice their opposition without getting arrested and for Israeli Palestinians, getting shipped off to Gaza. Likud is smothering protests, just like any fascist government would.

i love pro palestinians, they protest on Israel bombing, while HAMAS is keeping Palestians hostage.......

they should protest them as well......in fact all Palestians should protest HAMAS and what they have done and brought on to them.

BudmanTX said:

imho i don't believe the Isreali governing body is facist, i do believe there are some elements within the governing body that may pull that way but are not. There are elements of Zoinist Isrealis within the governing body as learned from the Congress of Zion in the late 1800's, and they're desendants are within that body might tend to pull that way as well.....keep in mind Zionism and Judaism are 2 seperate things and they are both within Israel itself.....

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It is possible to oppose Zionism and anti-Semitism at the same time. "Some elements" of fascism within the governing body. OK, so let's list them:

Policies of apartheid
Banning protests and beating those who show up to protest (rubber bullets count as "beating)
Suppression of the press
Controlling the judiciary
Advocating genocide (there is talk of forcing Palestinians from Gaza)
Suspending elected members of Parliament for criticizing actions by the government.
Settlements in Palestinian territories

This isn't even all of it.

Ok, so the fascist take-over is not complete but it's pretty scary.

BudmanTX said:

i love pro palestinians, they protest on Israel bombing, while HAMAS is keeping Palestians hostage.......

they should protest them as well......in fact all Palestians should protest HAMAS and what they have done and brought on to them.

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How about having one protest at a time? 5,000 dead in Gaza due to Israeli bombs. 1400 dead due to Hamas terrorism.

Both are bad. I support protesting both.

BudmanTX said:

i love pro palestinians, they protest on Israel bombing, while HAMAS is keeping Palestians hostage.......

they should protest them as well......in fact all Palestians should protest HAMAS and what they have done and brought on to them.

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We are beyond protests for either side there, but protests are happening elsewhere. Israeli's protesting against the destruction in Gaza would fare no better than those protesting against Ukraine in Ukraine during a hot war. People are silenced by fear of retribution, not necessarily from the government either, though such things are illegal now.

We can't do anything for the victims of Hamas terrorism, even the living hostages and Hamas is using them for their own cynical purposes. We can however do something for the living women and children in Gaza, Israel is under no immediate threat and Hamas is contained in Gaza. Even though rockets are being launched, it doesn't justify mass murder of civilians in Gaza or starving the place. If Israel is a friend, they will be a heavy one to carry, if their leadership break international law and are wanted by the Hague, or worse break international law and are given a pass by the Hague.

If Israel needs to take control of Gaza, they can divide north form south, clean out the south of terrorists and filter people into the south from the north where humanitarian aid will be delivered and suspects can be apprehended when they try to get out, women, children and the elderly are given a pass. They will need to put them in camps like the allies did with the German prisoners, separating out the nazis from the regular ones. Grading them according to threat level with interviews, wiretaps and spies. It is unfortunate, but how it is done today, they can't exterminate the caninities like in the Old Testament as God commanded, though they still want to use the ancient map of those times.

DIY-HP-LED said:

We are beyond protests for either side there, but protests are happening elsewhere. Israeli's protesting against the destruction in Gaza would fare no better than those protesting against Ukraine in Ukraine during a hot war. People are silenced by fear of retribution, not necessarily from the government either, though such things are illegal now.

We can't do anything for the victims of Hamas terrorism, even the living hostages and Hamas is using them for their own cynical purposes. We can however do something for the living women and children in Gaza, Israel is under no immediate threat and Hamas is contained in Gaza. Even though rockets are being launched, it doesn't justify mass murder of civilians in Gaza or starving the place. If Israel is a friend, they will be a heavy one to carry, if their leadership break international law and are wanted by the Hague, or worse break international law and are given a pass by the Hague.

If Israel needs to take control of Gaza, they can divide north form south, clean out the south of terrorists and filter people into the south from the north where humanitarian aid will be delivered and suspects can be apprehended when they try to get out, women, children and the elderly are given a pass. They will need to put them in camps like the allies did with the German prisoners, separating out the nazis from the regular ones. Grading them according to threat level with interviews, wiretaps and spies. It is unfortunate, but how it is done today, they can't exterminate the caninities like in the Old Testament as God commanded, though they still want to use the ancient map of those times.

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There are 2 million people in Gaza and less than 500,000 active and reserve members of the IDF. What are you proposing? That the IDF round up the people of Gaza and put them in prison compounds while they sort out the good from the bad?

This isn't the IDF's mission. Who would do this? The police?

Fogdog said:

It is possible to oppose Zionism and anti-Semitism at the same time. "Some elements" of fascism within the governing body. OK, so let's list them:

Policies of apartheid
Banning protests and beating those who show up to protest (rubber bullets count as "beating)
Suppression of the press
Controlling the judiciary
Advocating genocide (there is talk of forcing Palestinians from Gaza)
Suspending elected members of Parliament for criticizing actions by the government.
Settlements in Palestinian territories

This isn't even all of it.

Ok, so the fascist take-over is not complete but it's pretty scary.

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it is scary, imo i wish it wasn't so. Like u mentioned it is possible to oppose Zionism and Anti-Semetism........and not to long ago they did....


this was the protest of Bebe's return, and the overhaul of the judicary to make that happen....

you can't tell me and Isrealies and Palestinians are not both in those, cause of Bebe's return we are here now

Both Husseini and the Congress of Zion are both at fault for this turmoil, and it starts by the Rabbi's and the Imam's not teaching hate, not teaching one side is better than the other, not teaching kids to hate them cause they are different for whatever reason.......just my 2 cents....

Fogdog said:

There are 2 million people in Gaza and less than 500,000 active and reserve members of the IDF. What are you proposing? That the IDF round up the people of Gaza and put them in prison compounds while they sort out the good from the bad?

This isn't the IDF's mission. Who would do this? The police?

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I'm not proposing anything, but it is a way that has been used by liberal democracies in such situations and during the post war period and it was largely the job of the military. What are the alternatives? The members of Hamas must be separated out from the general population while protected from retribution by their own fascists. Otherwise, it is collective punishment, not collective justice or something close.

"We need a plan."

printer said:

"We need a plan."

What Israel should do now

Israel’s current approach is clearly wrong. Here’s a better way to fight Hamas — and win.

www.vox.com

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FPV and commercial drones will be useful for the Israelis, even DJI drones carrying grenades or bombs can precisely eliminate targets without too much collateral damage. With their technical advantages they could fly FPV drones inside buildings to hunt for hostages and targets too. Dones can precede advancing troops in Urban areas and cover rooftops and high windows, look around corners first etc. Why risk a man on point when you can send a drone to scout and have one above like God watching.

Here is what an FPV drone can do in an urban environment and inside buildings, done in one continuous take. Cinematography, racing and thrills are the normal uses for such things and the people who fly them, this was staged!

Here is why Joe jumped on a plane and headed for the middle east and has carriers stationed there.

Steve Schmidt explains how politicians like Trump & Netanyahu lead the world to war | The Warning

2,316 views Oct 24, 2023 The Warning
Steve Schmidt breaks down how corrupt officials like Donald Trump and Bibi Netanyahu can destabilize their governments. This leaves their countries open to attacks from their enemies, like what happened in Israel and the devastation that has followed in Gaza. Steve explains how it's up to the voters to elect honorable politicians who can lead the world to peace.

Pound them to the stone ages?

We await the civilian body count in Gaza, we can't stand with war criminals and the Muslim world would be outraged as would many in the west. Keeping civilian deaths to a minimum is the most important thing at this point, along with destroying Hamas. Hamas is their government however, just like the nazis were the government in Germany when we bombed the shit out of their cities during ww2.


Let's talk about US advisors heading over....

Musk offers aid organizations in Gaza access to Starlink
Tech billionaire Elon Musk offered the use of his Starlink satellite internet service on Saturday for humanitarian aid organizations in Gaza, as the war between Israel and Palestinian militant group Hamas continues.

The Gaza Strip, which is controlled Hamas, has been without internet and telephone communication amid escalating airstrikes and a ground campaign by the Israeli military. This has left civilians unable to call for help and aid organizations unable to communicate.

Musk said his company would give access to “internationally recognized” aid organizations, though it is unclear how quickly they would be able to connect to the technology as it requires special equipment.

However, Musk’s commitment came in response to criticism of Israel’s decision to cut communication from Rep. Alexandria Ocacio-Cortez (D-N.Y.).

“Cutting off all communication to a population of 2.2 million is unacceptable,” Ocacio-Cortez said on X, formerly known as Twitter, on Friday. “Journalists, medical professionals, humanitarian efforts, and innocents are all endangered. I do not know how such an act can be defended.”

“The United States has historically denounced this practice,” she added.

The Israeli ground campaign appears to be the beginning of a long-anticipated invasion of northern Gaza. The conflict began earlier this month after Hamas militants launched a surprise attack on Israel, killing over 1,400 people and taking more than 200 people hostage.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has vowed to continue air strikes until all of the hostages are returned. So far, only four have been freed.

Responding Israeli airstrikes have killed over 7,300 Palestinians as of Friday, including at least 3,000 children, according to the Hamas-controlled Gaza Health Ministry.

The U.S. has backed Israel in the conflict but has reportedly warned the Middle Eastern nation against a full ground invasion, concerned about wider escalation in the Middle East.

Musk’s offer is similar to his support for Ukraine in its war against Russia.

The tech billionaire — who also owns X, Tesla and SpaceX — offered the Starlink service to the Ukrainian military as well, but limited its use to purely defensive operations. That move raisied concerns about his influence over U.S. foreign policy in the region.

Let's talk about the latest out of the Mideast....

Drones with speakers would be my guess along with leaflets dropped, AM radio too since many people have them and they work a long time without power. AM radio is probably how most of the people in Gaza get their news these days.