hatred for being an atheist

Zaehet Strife said:

You feel free to give any definition to any "spiritual/unexplainable" experience that you have, it is our god given right to do so... yet, all within the understanding...

...that you (and i) may be wrong about the definition you or i give, the definition you or i give will always contain the possibility of being wrong, if you deny that, you deny yourself honesty.

To me, honesty with self, is the highest of all virtues.

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Who's understanding? Your understanding? Lol. Here's a hypothetical. Let's say that your walking down the street one day, and some dude picks up a rock and throws it at you...... Ok, so when you get home and your replaying the incident in your head, is there going to be a thought in the back of your mind saying, "I might be wrong about what I've just experienced.... that guy might not have really thrown that rock at me....or..... that guy may have really been an angel........ and that rock that he threw at me may have actually been a diamond ring"............ No, you wouldn't think those things. Why? Because you KNOW exactly what you've just experienced. For people who have certain types of mental conditions, this may actually be valid concern. But as for the people who are sane and fully awake at the time of their experience...... the vast majority of the time, these people KNOW exactly what they've just experienced. They don't need to fill in the blanks or attribute their experience to something that's spiritual or divine in nature. Unless of course, their experience really was something spiritual or divine in nature....... Don't worry, you don't even have to say it, we already know that you don't believe in these types of things.

There is a fine line between a physical experience, and a spiritual experience. Me feeling a rock hit me in the face, and feeling an overwhelming spiritual experience are in leagues of their own. I thought you were smart enough to understand the difference between physical, spiritual, and metaphysical, and exactly what i was talking about.

Semantics makes a difference my friend. I guess my assumption that you knew the difference between them was a farcry.

Let me reiterate, just in case you misinterpret what i was saying. All with the understanding that when i explain "experience" i am speaking of metaphysics, spiritual, and how we experience them sensually, and not of the physical. I am sure you of all people should be able to understand the separation between the physical and the spiritual.







You feel free to give any definition to any "spiritual/unexplainable" experience that you have, it is our god given right to do so... yet, all within the understanding...

...that you (and i) may be wrong about the definition you or i give, the definition you or i give will always contain the possibility of being wrong, if you deny that, you deny yourself honesty.

To me, honesty with self, is the highest of all virtues.

I am not telling you that your own personal subjective definition of a spiritual experience is not right. I am merely trying to help you understand one simple thought, one simple conscious thought, an idea if you will, that maybe... JUST MAYBE... that definition could contain the possibility of being wrong.

We have the god given right to think whatever the fuck we want about our (spiritual) experiences, but to not doubt them, is one of the most dishonest things you can do in your life. To not doubt, is to not think, and to not think, is to be dead inside. Do not imprison your imagination. Do not deny yourself an infinite amount of possibility in an existence where almost anything is possible...

Do not be so arrogant to think your ideas are right, and everyone else who as a different idea is wrong. Treat all individual ideas the same, treat all individual thoughts the same, treat all individual (spiritual) experiences the same, treat them as they are, as they become. None are truth, they are just imagination manifest into retrospect. All do not, and cannot withstand the scrutiny of doubt.

To doubt your ideas, thoughts and beliefs, is a natural part about being honest with ourselves.

To entertain an idea without excepting it is honesty to it's fullest."






I am not, and will never tell you that you are certainly wrong about whatever belief that you have my friends, only that to deny the possibility that you could be wrong, is to deny honesty with yourself. To some people honesty with self is an easy sacrifice for comfort in an uncertain existence, and i don't blame them one bit.

The only thing that you've just reiterated, is that you have absolutely no idea what your talking about. But I think we all picked up on that fact about 10 posts back.

SeniorFrostyKush said:

The only thing that you've just reiterated, is that you have absolutely no idea what your talking about. But I think we all picked up on that fact about 10 posts back.

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What i gather from this response, is one thing. That you refuse to acknowledge the fact that your beliefs contain the possibility of being wrong.


I don't think this is bad or good, i think it just is. I think billions of people do it all the time, every day, about countless different things, ideas, beliefs...

I just think it's the easy way, and i am jealous, because i wish i didn't have to doubt.

Have you never once, ever, wondered, if what you think this is, reality, existence, belief... thought... might not be what you think it is?

If not... i wonder just how much of your imagination is already gone...

Chief Walkin Eagle said:

Nah man, Im legit. Im infamous on this sub forum for my story of my two spiritual buddies. It was quite the spectacle when it was being told, even had Heis lash out at me unprovoked, they dont want this kinda shit spreading and poisoning other peoples minds with our nonsense lol. Most people have their mind made up when its comes to this stuff anyways. When arguing the credibility of these instances it pretty much comes down to a repetitive "Nuh uhh!" and "Yah huh!" kinda discussion that goes nowhere and getting emotional will just give all the more reason for the opposition to strut around victoriously with their peanut gallery hugging their nuts. You get used to it though, friendly discussions with skeptics are definitely possible on this subforum. Just gotta chill out man.

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I have lashed out at you intellectually, but have I ever prevented you from giving your opinion? As far as I can remember you have never outright insulted people, and so I have never had to moderate your posts. You conduct yourself just fine. I don't agree with much of what you say, but I want this to be a place where you can say it. I can't garantee that it will be well received or that people wont agressively oppose it, but I can garantee that you are free to say whatever, as long as other members are not insulted or threatened.

Zaehet Strife said:

What i gather from this response, is one thing. That you refuse to acknowledge the fact that your beliefs contain the possibility of being wrong.


I don't think this is bad or good, i think it just is. I think billions of people do it all the time, every day, about countless different things, ideas, beliefs...

I just think it's the easy way, and i am jealous, because i wish i didn't have to doubt.

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Zaehet Strife said:

Have you never once, ever, wondered, if what you think this is, reality, existence, belief... thought... might not be what you think it is?

If not... i wonder just how much of your imagination is already gone...

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You're flailin' bro..... Just give it up already.

SeniorFrostyKush said:

You're flailin' bro..... Just give it up already.

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The denial of doubt. Expected.

Yet i do not criticize your denial.

As you criticize me for bringing it up.

Expected...

Regardless, you refuse to acknowledge the fact that your beliefs contain the possibility of being wrong.

SeniorFrostyKush said:

Yup, here I am responding to more of your horseshit, who woulda guessed.......

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What bullshit? Prove me wrong. So far, all you've done is say "you're wrong, but you won't believe me if I show you how". That, friend, is bullshit. I don't believe scientists just because they're scientists, that's a logical fallacy. It's called an appeal to authority. I believe scientists when they produce verifiable results under laboratory conditions that are repeated by other scientists who are attempting to falsify their work.

A scientist making a youtube video of something miraculous without giving any explanation, and without giving his findings up to the vigours of peer-review will not make a believer out of any critical thinker.

Lmao, no I think you know exactly what I meant by that, but by all means, be petty and childish.

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No I really don't. Positively affirmative makes no sense to me whatsoever. Sorry, not trying to be a dick. That's why I said did you mean an affirmation?

Key in on my spelling and grammar all you want, it doesn't mean anything other than the fact that I've once again been standing here for way too long.

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Sorry?

Instead of questioning my credibility, why don't you just say what you're really thinking, which is: "your exactly right, even though I'll never admit to it."

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Unless you want to claim you're psychic or telepathic too, I don't now how you could possibly claim that. I most certainly DO NOT believe you are correct, and you have no evidence to support your claim regarding souls, or god.

And I'm gunna go ahead and take a moment to clear this up since your obviously going to refer back to it whenever it's convenient for you. I knew what empirical meant before I had ever even stuck my foot in my mouth by making that remark to Tyler. After seeing him use the word on so many occasions, I decided, on a whim, to look it up so that I could double check it's definition. I did a quick google search, and this is the one sentence definition that I was given:

em·pir·i·cal

adjective

adjective: empirical

1. based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic.
"they provided considerable empirical evidence to support their argument"

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Ok, it didn't seem like you knew what it meant before because you told him to look it up in the dictionary when he was using it correctly.

By that definition, I concluded that my previous knowledge of what "empirical" meant had been wrong. When I read the definition that I was given, I assumed that "empirical" was a description of evidence based solely on observation. It was a simple mistake. I had already known what the word meant, but I thought that my initial knowledge of the word had been proven to be false. That's why I made that comment. Your right though, definitely "foot in mouth" on that one. As far as "scientific theory" is concerned, I wasn't saying that Tyler didn't know the definition of scientific theory. I simply felt that he was elaborating and expanding on it's actual definition, to which I've been familiar with since elementary school. I've never been remotely confused about what "scientific theory" means. Those are actually pretty good example of what I meant when I said that my condition can sometimes effect the validity of my statements.

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Ok, I'll roll with you on this one. It just seemed like you didn't really know because you said 'all they have are theories', which would be alluding to the fact that theories don't have evidence, which of course they do.

Not only had I already been going back and forth with you and Tyler for hours by that point, but at that time my legs were also swollen up like balloons, because wouldn't you know it..... I have a heart condition too. Other than my swollen legs, my heart condition plays no role in anything else, so let's just forget that I even mentioned it. So how about we put all of that pettiness to rest, what do you say?

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Sure man, I ok with that.

I never said that it's hard to come up with a credible source. On the contrary, it's MORE than easy to come with a credible source. What I said was, that you nor any other atheist in this thread would ever consider ANY source that I reference, or ANY video that I post to be from a credible source.

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Credible means verified. That's all. Some guy alone in his house claiming he can light paper on fire with his mind, but refusing to demonstrate his power anywhere but alone, and in his basement, is not credible. Anyone who can prove a soul exists, or that 'powers' or any other supernatural phenomenon exists, should be able to EASILY demonstrate their power under controlled conditions.

Once all other options are eliminated, however unlikely, the only remaining option is correct. Meaning, if a guy claims to have psychic powers and can move objects, eliminate all other possibilities to confirm it. Make sure he's not using an external force, e.g. magnets, strings, wind, etc. this is done by changing the environment, and not allowing him to use his own props. Using glass in front of him would stop any projectiles from striking the objects he was attempting to move with his mind. Controls need to be used, in order to verify. Now, maybe some youtube videos are real, but we have no way of knowing and until it can be tested by eliminating other, more likely natural causes, the burden of proof has not been filled and belief is not justified.

Tyler already gave a long list of sources that he automatically deemed to be non credible, don't you remember? I could post a video showing your own brother moving an object with his mind, and still you'd somehow claim the video to be non credible. That's just a fact homie, if you cant come to terms with that, then I would suggest taking a long honest look within, because your lying to yourself.

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If a family member claimed they could move things with their mind I would put them behind a window, in a location they've never been to, and ask them to repeat the phenomenon. Done. So you're right, JUST a video wouldn't be enough to fill the burden of proof for me. Videos can be easily modified, and so can the areas where the video is filmed. There is too much at stake to believe a claim like telekinesis exists based solely on an untested claim from a video.

Although this statement contradicts everything that I've come to know about you, I'll still play along. I notice how you threw, "compelling" information and "legitimate" evidence, in there to act as your fire escapes.

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Do you accept uncompelling and illegitimate information as sources? I don't, sorry. I don't find David Blaine compelling, but he has lots of videos.

The issue with that statement, is that the only legitimate evidence that would EVER be good enough for you, would be a live demonstration. And even after witnessing it your own eyes, you would still deny reality and it call it a "trick", even if you yourself could not debunk it as such.

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This is complete hearsay, you have absolutely nothing to base that assertion off of, other than your opinion of me and you don't even know me.

The scientific method works, man. Eliminate variables, be precise. Get accurate, consistent, verifiable, results.

Whether you want to admit it or not, no evidence will EVER be good enough for you in regards to subjects that you deem to be impossible.

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I don't think anything is impossible, just very, very unlikely.

I'm actually a very logical person, the only difference between us, is that YOU deem anything that isn't already written in a science book to be illogical.

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I have a degree in Philosophy with a focus in logic. Please don't lecture me on what logic is, I'm well versed in truth-function and Aristotelian logic. Thanks.

In your mind, it's UTTERLY IMPOSSIBLE to think that there are aspects of science that are yet to be understood.

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That is completely inaccurate, and nothing more than an assertion. Unless of course, you're claiming to know my thoughts.

Sounds good, I just hope that you ACTUALLY have an open mind when going over what I have to present, instead of just saying that your open minded.

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I'm a critical thinker, I don't accept anything on face value just because it's said, or written. I need the burden of proof to be filled, and depending on the claim the burden of proof could be large or small. The bigger the claim, the bigger the burden. If you tell me you have 6 toes on one foot, a picture or video is fine; the consequences I face for holding the incorrect belief that you have 6 toes is small when compared to the consequence I face for holding the incorrect belief that souls, or psychic powers exist. Those ideas could drastically change the way I live my life, and a video or a picture isn't going to cut it.

If a friend called you on the phone and said they cut their finger so they put a band aid on it, you'd probably believe them at face value.
If the same friend called and told you he had your daughter captive, you'd probably want some evidence. You might go look for your daughter, or ask to speak with her, etc.

To me, you're doing the equivalent of the 'band aid' call; "Believe me because I say so, but I have no way of proving anything to you."

But how would you know that? You didn't even read my post. For the first time in this thread, I went out of my way to explain myself in a cohesive scientific manner. I didn't personally attack skunkdoc, all I did was make a true statement about our last encounter. If it were still on the page, you'd be able to see for yourself. And regardless, all that he had to do was to erase that tiny little portion of that long ass post, just like all of the other mods do. That shit took me 15 minutes to type out. It was totally a personal attack on me. He didn't want my comments anywhere on his precious atheist thread. I take it that what I had to say, had him actually questioning his own beliefs in some way, and therefore he was going to make sure that NO ONE else ever read my statement. But whatever, I'm over it. Lol, I'm sure he's petitioning to get me banned as we speak, but hey, if I see people abusing their moderator privileges, I'm gunna let 'em know. Oh well though, I'm over it now..... I'm sure he's probably not though.

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He said there were personal attacks in the post, those are against the forum rules. Are you surprised that using personal attacks against another member, even when they're in a long post, gets your post deleted?

I've had two? of my posts deleted because I got personal. Refrain from personal attacks and it's all good.

Heis simply deleted a post that was violating the site rules, pretty sure he didn't lose any sleep over it.

Beefbisquit said:

What bullshit? Prove me wrong. So far, all you've done is say "you're wrong, but you won't believe me if I show you how". That, friend, is bullshit. I don't believe scientists just because they're scientists, that's a logical fallacy. It's called an appeal to authority. I believe scientists when they produce verifiable results under laboratory conditions that are repeated by other scientists who are attempting to falsify their work.

A scientist making a youtube video of something miraculous without giving any explanation, and without giving his findings up to the vigours of peer-review will not make a believer out of any critical thinker.


No I really don't. Positively affirmative makes no sense to me whatsoever. Sorry, not trying to be a dick. That's why I said did you mean an affirmation?


Sorry?


Unless you want to claim you're psychic or telepathic too, I don't now how you could possibly claim that. I most certainly DO NOT believe you are correct, and you have no evidence to support your claim regarding souls, or god.


Ok, it didn't seem like you knew what it meant before because you told him to look it up in the dictionary when he was using it correctly.


Ok, I'll roll with you on this one. It just seemed like you didn't really know because you said 'all they have are theories', which would be alluding to the fact that theories don't have evidence, which of course they do.



Sure man, I ok with that.


Credible means verified. That's all. Some guy alone in his house claiming he can light paper on fire with his mind, but refusing to demonstrate his power anywhere but alone, and in his basement, is not credible. Anyone who can prove a soul exists, or that 'powers' or any other supernatural phenomenon exists, should be able to EASILY demonstrate their power under controlled conditions.

Once all other options are eliminated, however unlikely, the only remaining option is correct. Meaning, if a guy claims to have psychic powers and can move objects, eliminate all other possibilities to confirm it. Make sure he's not using an external force, e.g. magnets, strings, wind, etc. this is done by changing the environment, and not allowing him to use his own props. Using glass in front of him would stop any projectiles from striking the objects he was attempting to move with his mind. Controls need to be used, in order to verify. Now, maybe some youtube videos are real, but we have no way of knowing and until it can be tested by eliminating other, more likely natural causes, the burden of proof has not been filled and belief is not justified.



If a family member claimed they could move things with their mind I would put them behind a window, in a location they've never been to, and ask them to repeat the phenomenon. Done. So you're right, JUST a video wouldn't be enough to fill the burden of proof for me. Videos can be easily modified, and so can the areas where the video is filmed. There is too much at stake to believe a claim like telekinesis exists based solely on an untested claim from a video.


Do you accept uncompelling and illegitimate information as sources? I don't, sorry. I don't find David Blaine compelling, but he has lots of videos.


This is complete hearsay, you have absolutely nothing to base that assertion off of, other than your opinion of me and you don't even know me.

The scientific method works, man. Eliminate variables, be precise. Get accurate, consistent, verifiable, results.




I don't think anything is impossible, just very, very unlikely.


I have a degree in Philosophy with a focus in logic. Please don't lecture me on what logic is, I'm well versed in truth-function and Aristotelian logic. Thanks.



That is completely inaccurate, and nothing more than an assertion. Unless of course, you're claiming to know my thoughts.



I'm a critical thinker, I don't accept anything on face value just because it's said, or written. I need the burden of proof to be filled, and depending on the claim the burden of proof could be large or small. The bigger the claim, the bigger the burden. If you tell me you have 6 toes on one foot, a picture or video is fine; the consequences I face for holding the incorrect belief that you have 6 toes is small when compared to the consequence I face for holding the incorrect belief that souls, or psychic powers exist. Those ideas could drastically change the way I live my life, and a video or a picture isn't going to cut it.

If a friend called you on the phone and said they cut their finger so they put a band aid on it, you'd probably believe them at face value.
If the same friend called and told you he had your daughter captive, you'd probably want some evidence. You might go look for your daughter, or ask to speak with her, etc.

To me, you're doing the equivalent of the 'band aid' call; "Believe me because I say so, but I have no way of proving anything to you."



He said there were personal attacks in the post, those are against the forum rules. Are you surprised that using personal attacks against another member, even when they're in a long post, gets your post deleted?

I've had two? of my posts deleted because I got personal. Refrain from personal attacks and it's all good.

Heis simply deleted a post that was violating the site rules, pretty sure he didn't lose any sleep over it.

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Lol, that was pretty long post, and yet you've managed to say absolutely nothing at all. Now who's struggling? Lmfao! It's funny though, you still talk as if I give a shit what you think, or as if I'm under the impression that something that I say or do is gunna change your viewpoints on reality. LOL JOKE!!! I've never said this before to anyone, but I think you've just taken the cake as THE most arrogant AND ignorant person I've ever spoken with. YOU HIT THE 2 FOR 1 BRO, CONGRADULATIONS!!! But hey, at least a lifetime's worth of "rational" ignorance has gotten you something other than an inflated ego..... I wonder when you'll actually figure out that there's more to life than science..... I'm guessing never, because science IS your god AND your whole sense of reality, all wrapped up into one. No wonder you covet it like it's your newborn child. LOL..... I'm not even gunna dignify the rest of that babble with a response. You've said it all before, over and over and over again. There come's a point in life where willful ignorance turns into sheer stupidity, and I think you crossed that threshold long ago my friend. Until next time.......

SeniorFrostyKush said:

Lol, that was pretty long post, and yet you've managed to say absolutely nothing at all. Now who's struggling? Lmfao!

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Your critique is that I 'said nothing'. I gave you examples of credible sources, with reasoning as to why they're credible. I corrected your assertions about my ideologies and beliefs, because you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about, and I gave you the exact requirements needed to fill my burden of proof for belief. You attacked my sense of logic, and I defended myself and cited my reasons for defending myself. I said a lot.

You on the other hand, said absolutely nothing in this post other than unfounded assertions about my beliefs, and some ad hominem attacks about my ego and intelligence. The fact that you don't give a shit what I think is the very definition of close minded. It's hypocrisy at its finest, let's continue through the rest of your post with that in mind.

It's funny though, you still talk as if I give a shit what you think, or as if I'm under the impression that something that I say or do is gunna change your viewpoints on reality. LOL JOKE!!! I've never said this before to anyone, but I think you've just taken the cake as THE most arrogant AND ignorant person I've ever spoken with.

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I'm arrogant because I require evidence before formulating a belief? Or I'm arrogant for thinking that everyone should require some form of evidence before formulating beliefs? You're just saying shit, without any reference to what I've said. You do that a lot. How am I ignorant? Based upon what I've said about my beliefs, I find it hard to believe you can accurately label me as ignorant. Care to elaborate? Or is it just a case of nothing valid or reasonable to say, so you just try to discredit me?

New flash, discrediting the other person doesn't make your argument stronger. It's the adult equivalent of yelling, "Well you're a poopy pants! Neener neener!" on the playground as a kid, when someone said something you didn't like.

YOU HIT THE 2 FOR 1 BRO, CONGRADULATIONS!!! But hey, at least a lifetime's worth of "rational" ignorance has gotten you something other than an inflated ego..... I wonder when you'll actually figure out that there's more to life than science.....

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There's way more to life than science, when did I say otherwise? You love strawman arguments, (in other words you argue against things I never said). Science is the best tool we have for determining the nature of the world. That's what I believe, and it's demonstrable. You're typing on a computer, using the internet, taking prescription meds, and seeing Dr.'s trained in using the scientific method..... need I say more. You're still not saying anything worth listening to, just more insults because you have nothing valid to say about the topic at hand.

I'm guessing never, because science IS your god AND your whole sense of reality, all wrapped up into one. No wonder you covet it like it's your newborn child.

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I don't have a god. That's ridiculous. Science isn't infallible like gods claim to be, but it is self correcting which makes it leaps and bounds ahead of any religion that sticks to a specific, unchanging dogma.

LOL..... I'm not even gunna dignify the rest of that babble with a response. You've said it all before, over and over and over again. There come's a point in life where willful ignorance turns into sheer stupidity, and I think you crossed that threshold long ago my friend. Until next time.......

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You still haven't said anything other that you think I'm stupid. You've given no counter argument to anything I've said, other than trying to assassinate my character because you don't like me/my arguments. It's not my fault you can't argue your own beliefs. If you have something that's worth writing, I'd love to hear it. If it's just more insults, don't bother.

SeniorFrostyKush said:

It's funny though, you still talk as if I give a shit what you think, or as if I'm under the impression that something that I say or do is gunna change your viewpoints on reality.

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Then why in the fuck... are you even trying to discuss ideas in a philosophy forum?

This is a place for clean debate, to share ideas, to learn from each other, to make an attempt at empathizing with others ideas about reality. To share our ideas about reality. To have enough courage to endure the scrutiny of our ideas from other people all around the world without taking offense, to really listen, and produce a valid response. To have fun and get to know each other.


Really, what in the fuck are you even doing here then? To call people names and bring them down when your ideas are questioned rather than provide us with a valid explanation?




What in the fuck are we doing here???


[video=youtube;FVntLcHZsQE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVntLcHZsQE[/video]

Here is some advice. Stop being a fuckin dick and get the fuck off of this forum if you aren't going to listen to others ideas and put people down when they question yours. Stop wasting the time of those on here who actually care about what other people think, and care about who people are as individuals.

Heisenberg said:

I have lashed out at you intellectually, but have I ever prevented you from giving your opinion? As far as I can remember you have never outright insulted people, and so I have never had to moderate your posts. You conduct yourself just fine. I don't agree with much of what you say, but I want this to be a place where you can say it. I can't garantee that it will be well received or that people wont agressively oppose it, but I can garantee that you are free to say whatever, as long as other members are not insulted or threatened.

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I never said you got in the way of my freedom of speech.

That is Z, and the "Joke or reference" is my last post to him. Completely failed to address anything I had to say.

Chief Walkin Eagle said:

I never said you got in the way of my freedom of speech.

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Right. I was sort of asking your opinion. While lashing out at you did you feel I also used mod privileges to suppress you. I guess you answered all the same.

Good one Heisenberg, pretty good way to get to the right of free speech, damn what a wonderful thing we do have! I might not believe in God, yet it was a great eye opener to see how I was not alone, yet to see how others felt! Wonderfully debated conversation on organized religion and athiesm, high powers, etc.... I learned a lot, even downloaded the book,

'The Bible Fraud' by Tony Bushby to my iPad which has made me feel better about the way I feel. I have not finished yet because I have had a rough week due to cheno, I could barely get out of bed to take care of my plants, so I'll definitely be posting on newbie central, I'm grateful to Limegreen and Sunking, by using only 4 seedlings in dwc and adding to soilless dirt mixture which I added azomite to fit trace minerals and used thrive alive and root for transplanting into coco, sorry got off topic.

Heisenberg said:

Right. I was sort of asking your opinion. While lashing out at you did you feel I also used mod privileges to suppress you. I guess you answered all the same.

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"I respect this board because I have even said previously, "I'm sorry, I feel like I took your thread and feelings away, Hephaestus420, it was just so refreshing to see someone else, felt the same way I did. I felt guilty also, as you did with your family, it's always nice to know that you are not alone, and it has given me more insight into religion. I know Buddhism is really not a religion, but I relate to it the most for right now, and I appreciate that people here are open to others views and thoughts, even if they do not agree with them, they have a right, as we all do, thank you, first amendment for free speech!" I never felt like my first amendment right was under attack, I thought it was a good debate about Christianity, which really opened my eyes, especially Beef Bisquit, hydrogreen, I'm sorry, I feel like I took your thread and feelings away, Hephaestus420, it was just so refreshing to see someone else, felt the same way I did. I felt guilty also, as you did with your family, it's always nice to know that you are not alone, and it has given me more insight into religion. I know Buddhism is really not a religion, but I relate to it the most for right now, and I appreciate that people here are open to others views and thoughts, even if they do not agree with them, they have a right, as we all do, thank you, first amendment for free speech!" Quote from myself.

Hephaestus420, BeefBiscuit , and others as well, gave me many mind opening links and information to further to continue my decision to be an atheist, just like President Obama said according to climate change, I believe in Science. I tried to read the bible and could not even get past God' s sons Cane and Able were like about 800 years old, and quotes about talking snakes, why would he make one person that was blind and the rest stay blind?
I believe that believing in God or some kind of power gives a person false hope, if you look at many polls taken on if a person believes in Christianity, it seems like the person with higher education or higher iq's, believe in science, and I do believe as others have said, they really do not believe in God, but they say they do because they do not want to get condoned, outcasted, or giving a ton of grief because of their beliefs. They are afraid as another member had quoted earlier. That is why I like this forum, because I never felt attacked, I felt like we were all given a chance to speak our opinions, and I was given good advice.

"To me, honesty with self, is the highest of all virtues.", was written by Zaeth Strife, I read a quote that I believe is the truth, To be an atheist requires an indefinitely greater measure of faith than to receive all the great truths which atheism would deny." Quote by Joseph Addison. Like Hephaestus420 said, it just gives people a sense of false hope, and another quoted, don't follow the light, you will run over by a train. I did like Stephen Hawking explain the reason why he is an atheist, even though after hearing it I find fit hard to explain, but it made absolute sense at the time.
Believe me, when I found out I was sick, I did pray to all god's, but felt stupid doing so, it was against everything I stood for, but felt pressured by my family to do so, as many others do. But I feel so much better given the threads I read I was not alone.

One thing I did find out is there are some incredibly intelligent people here and I'm glad I chose to hang in there and cc Dobbs, thank you again for your concern, being sick is a lot harder in dwc, requires a lot of work, and all I want was good medication until I am finished with chemo, sorry, just lied, although it helps greatly, I will continue the almighty herb, sick or not! So sorry to go off topic!
So I stand firm in my choice of being an atheist, and glad others I am not alone, and I am so happy to have found a board and hung in there being a newbie idiot, I have gained so much valuable information, regardless being sick, atheism, and learning to grow indoors, etc, and will keep coming back to learn more, got a great group here, I'm grateful to be accepted into this forum!

"To me, honesty with self, is the highest of all virtues." I read a quote that I believe is the truth, To be an atheist requires an indefinitely greater measure of faith than to receive all the great truths which atheism would deny." Quote by Joseph Addison.

"Men never commit evil so fully and joyfuly as when they do it for religious convictions"
-- Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)

"Hey, let's get serious... God knows what he's doin' He wrote this book here And the book says: 'He made us all to be just like Him', So... If we're dumb... Then God is dumb... (And maybe even a little ugly on the side)"
- -Frank Zappa

Happy growing to all, hope you all have great weekends!

Great post Kat, thank you for sharing, keep comin back my man... i bet you got something in that brain to offer all of us. Impressed.

Still waiting to see an agnostic theist here other than Eye.

I never read that quote by Joseph Adams, i thought i made that shit up! lol.

I don't wanna hurt anyone's feelings or beliefs, am just saying my mind.

Born in a land where they worship everything and thousands of gods to chose from; I believe there is no Allah, Jesus or Raam. But I do believe that there is a force which is beyond our wildest imaginations. I also believe in karma, do good get good.

I have been studying science all my life and the more I studied, I began thinking there is one- The creator, the greatest artist.

I don't believe in any man written books about god, nor do I worship a stone or a photograph. Did someone see jesus/ram and painted their pictures? Lol

Worshipping a living thing- a tree which gives you fruit and the cow that gives you milk is totally fine (atleast its also from the same place) but worshipping a piece of paper, stone..and we call ourselves rationalists,scientists and whatnot!

Everyone has the right to believe in something and live their life that's why there are religions. A grip to hold on, those who dont need it will never need it.

A great man from India,Kerala called Sree Narayana Guru once fixed a mirror and asked people to worship it. The god we all are searching for is inside us, in our actions, in our words.

I also believe there's something larger than life, afterall energy can neither be created, nor destroyed but can be changed from one form to another.

All that I have been through, fuck I must have been a very bad man in my last life. When the so called real life ends, if my energy is clean..I might become a much loved plant with THC in my flowers if not i'll again be born to suffer for the bad things I have done..

Hope somebody understands me...

Peace and Love,

Toker.