Health Care Poll - Where Do You Stand?

Do you support health care reform or oppose it?

  • Total voters
    57
P

PadawanBater

Guest
The debate over health care reform in the United States centers on questions about whether there is a fundamental right to health care, on who should have access to health care and under what circumstances, on the quality achieved for the high sums spent, and on the sustainability of expenditures that have been rising faster than the level of general inflation and the growth in the economy. The leading cause of personal bankruptcy in the United States is medical debt[1][2] which is almost unknown in other countries in the developed world. [3] The United States spends a greater portion of total yearly income in the nation on health care than any United Nations member state except for East Timor (Timor-Leste),[4] although the actual use of health care services in the U.S., by most measures of health services use, is below the median among the world's developed countries.[5]
According to the Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Sciences, the United States is the "only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not ensure that all citizens have coverage".[6] Americans are divided along party lines in their views regarding the role of government in the health economy and especially whether a new public health plan should be created and administered by the federal government.[7] Those in favor of universal health care argue that the large number of uninsured Americans creates direct and hidden costs shared by all, and that extending coverage to all would lower costs and improve quality.[8] Opponents of laws requiring people to have health insurance argue that this impinges on their personal freedom.[9] Both sides of the political spectrum have also looked to more philosophical arguments, debating whether people have a fundamental right to have health care which needs to be protected by their government.[10][11]
The focus is currently on the recently passed Affordable Health Care for America Act in the House of Representatives, which has yet to be acted on by the Senate.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_reform_in_the_United_States

I wanted to get a little perspective from the community about health care reform that would hopefully start up some good discussion. Again, I hope this will be one of those threads that doesn't turn into nothing but insults. This issue affects us all, we should try to remain mature enough to communicate opinions and facts without hostility.



I've been sitting here getting stoned and thinking about it and in the long run, if everyone is covered I think it would benefit us all, we would all be better off if we went through with paying for it, as cost of treatments would go down because it makes sense that if more people are covered, less people would die because of conditions that could have been prevented had they gone to the doctor sooner. I heard a statistic on that figure once, but I really can't remember it right now... How many people end up dying because they couldn't afford going to the doctor. But another part of me is completely against government force instituting something like health care. I can't stand paying for car insurance every month, I imagine the concept is exactly the same. Not to mention blatant and such widespread abuse of the system.

So where do we go from here? In a perfect world I think we'd all voluntarily pay to keep a system going that all of us could use whenever we needed it... but that just isn't reality, not in America in the 21st century... A lot of that has to do with education, imo. In order to care about eachother, you have be educated and know certain things and think certain ways.. Idk, I guess that's another thread..

So yeah, basically, what's your take, and why do you feel that way?
 
MexicanWarlord420

MexicanWarlord420

Active Member
I support it, although i'd rather us have a singlepayer. Healthcare should be for all, especially the working poor.

These are people who can't afford healthcare and are barely able to make ends meet.(Not the welfare queens)

Of course the republicans will go against anything the dems try to do.

Now waiting for the "ism", new world order, and regurgitated gop talking points.

These guys are gonna be foaming at the mouth when healthcare gets passed lol.
 
undertheice

undertheice

Well-Known Member
reform - yes, government take over - no. the idea that anyone has the right to force someone else to pay for their health care is insane, but that's just what we're gonna end up with. more welfare state growth and nanny state nonsense.
 
SocataSmoker

SocataSmoker

Well-Known Member
Opposed... if it passes, I'm moving to Australia. Done deal. This is socialism in the making and I will not support a socialist government. I take care of myself, I do not, and will not... take care of, as Warlord said... welfare queens, etc... this bill is horribly written to allow such things to take place and as such, is a slap in the face to what this country ONCE was.

For the first time in my life, fuck the US government... if it passes.
 
ViRedd

ViRedd

New Member
Opposed.

Do you young guyz who are for this government take-over of our entire health care system realize that if you try to opt out of the system, you'll be subject to fines and even prison?

This isn't about health care ... its about power over our lives. Do you guys actually believe that Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid really care about your health and the care of that health? If you do, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
SocataSmoker said:
Opposed... if it passes, I'm moving to Australia. Done deal. This is socialism in the making and I will not support a socialist government. I take care of myself, I do not, and will not... take care of, as Warlord said... welfare queens, etc... this bill is horribly written to allow such things to take place and as such, is a slap in the face to what this country ONCE was.

For the first time in my life, fuck the US government... if it passes.
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Bye.............. See ya, wouldn't wanna bee ya.
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
ViRedd said:
Opposed.

Do you young guyz who are for this government take-over of our entire health care system realize that if you try to opt out of the system, you'll be subject to fines and even prison?

This isn't about health care ... its about power over our lives. Do you guys actually believe that Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid really care about your health and the care of that health? If you do, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.
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How can you be so uninformed, oh that's right, you watch the hate mongers on fox and listen to hate radio. Anyone opposed to medical care reform is, well I don't want to sound crass, but really crazy. Societies that care for their members have a much more positive appraised agenda. Medical care should be a right, not a priveledge for the elites. For the same money we are spending now on healthcare, we could cover everyone and have better care, just by eliminating the greedy pricks in the insurance industry, and using the money to actually pay for healthcare instead of lining the pockets of CEOs and greedy stockholders. This is one commodity that needs to be profitless.
 
I

ilkhan

Well-Known Member
The way I see this bill it is a handout to the insurance companies.
Mandating we all get coveredge or they will throw you in jail.
Then when the companies have taken everyone they want.
Then they dumptruck the rest on the government dole.

This will see skyrocketing healthcare costs.
More police state tactics.
Worse healthcare service.
More government debt.
Massive tax increases.
Higher unemployment.

What we need is:
Health Savings accounts.
(with tax deductions for all out of pocket expenses and donations to the health savings account)
High deductable long term major medical insurance.
(20 year plans like term life insurance)
Tax breaks for doctors doing Pro-Bono work.
(This would help the poor get free care)

All of this could be done without any tax increases and no debt to the government.
It would cause prices to fall like other medical procedures that are uninsured.
It would increase the level of savings in our economy.

On the plus side 2010 and 2012 are looking brighter and brighter.
The Dems are doing everything they can to insure they don't get elected.
Now if the Republicans can find any principled members of their party
that will not be lauphed off the stage by their own base.
Like Scuzafuza in NY-23

So any of you economic doods like CJ or Vi want to explain why its bad to increase taxes durring a ressesion?
Jobless recovery indeed!
 
undertheice

undertheice

Well-Known Member
ilkhan said:
What we need is:
Health Savings accounts.
High deductible long term major medical insurance.
Tax breaks for doctors doing Pro-Bono work.
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but these are things that make sense. we can't just suddenly start doing things that make sense, now can we. just ask med and his ilk, what we need is another massive government incursion into the private sector to help destroy the evils of capitalism once and for all. how else are all the fools of the world going to get mommy and daddy to tell them right from wrong and tuck them in at night? there is a huge laundry list of things to try before we get around to the irreversible movement of government into the insurance business, but "the big plan" looks better to the ignorant mob and brak did promise us change, now didn't he.
 
jeff f

jeff f

New Member
This is one commodity that needs to be profitless.
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yes, that will really keep folks interested in a career in medicine. wonderful idea....if you are an idiot. so what do you propose in 5 years when all we have are govt doctors making 30K a year and who are better equiped to work the door at walmart? make people take tests and the real smart ones will be forced to go to medical school? boy, you bleeding hearts are really the smartest people in the room...ifin its a phone booth.
 
jesus of Cannabis

jesus of Cannabis

:-)
Health care is a privilege and not a right. If my idiot neighbor gets free healthcare, who pays for it?...me and you and everyone else. No way man, thats the start of everythinhg being equal and that means communism.
 
jeff f

jeff f

New Member
if this whole debate was about health care, the cheapest thing to do would be to give the uninsured people money to buy coverage. even if you believe the numbers (45 million uninsured) it would cost about 1 third what this crap is gonna cost. 45 mill times 1000 bucks a month= 540 billion total cost. there are only probably 12-15 million who are uninsured. that would cost less than 300 billion. but no, these knuckle heads are gonna spend 1.5 trillion and its not even gonna insure everyone. this is absolutely nuts and has nothing to do with healthcare. its power man, power....and unions.
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
jeff f said:
if this whole debate was about health care, the cheapest thing to do would be to give the uninsured people money to buy coverage. even if you believe the numbers (45 million uninsured) it would cost about 1 third what this crap is gonna cost. 45 mill times 1000 bucks a month= 540 billion total cost. there are only probably 12-15 million who are uninsured. that would cost less than 300 billion. but no, these knuckle heads are gonna spend 1.5 trillion and its not even gonna insure everyone. this is absolutely nuts and has nothing to do with healthcare. its power man, power....and unions.
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Unions, where did you see unions in this bill? I agree, this bill is crap, bit is is an improvement on what we have now. The real fixer would have been single payer. BTW, in most countries that have "government" healthcare, Doctors earn the equivalent of 100K and up.

Direct comparisons of health statistics across nations are complex. The Commonwealth Fund, in its annual survey, "Mirror, Mirror on the Wall", compares the performance of the health care systems in Australia, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, Germany, Canada and the U.S. Its 2007 study found that, although the U.S. system is the most expensive, it consistently underperforms compared to the other countries.[11] A major difference between the U.S. and the other countries in the study is that the U.S. is the only country without universal health care. The OECD also collects comparative statistics, and has published brief country profiles.[12][13][14]


Among the six nations studied—Australia, Canada, Germany, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and the United States—the U.S. ranks last, as it did in the 2006 and 2004 editions of Mirror, Mirror. Most troubling, the U.S. fails to achieve better health outcomes than the other countries, and as shown in the earlier editions, the U.S. is last on dimensions of access, patient safety, efficiency, and equity. The 2007 edition includes data from the six countries and incorporates patients' and physicians' survey results on care experiences and ratings on various dimensions of care. BTW, it is also the most expensive per capita.

The US ranked last in all categories, and was the most expensive, want to talk about that?
 
C

Cloud City

New Member
Not only do I support health care 118% I plan to take full advantage of the public OPTION when it becomes availabe. Also, being a Conservative I am for free enterprise so the more choices the better!!!!!!!!!!! This is history in the making and ITS ABOUT DAMN TIME.
 
jeff f

jeff f

New Member
Unions, where did you see unions in this bill? I agree, this bill is crap, bit is is an improvement on what we have now. The real fixer would have been single payer. BTW, in most countries that have "government" healthcare, Doctors earn the equivalent of 100K and up.
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because this will take us back to when we had 100% govt run hospitals. and they suck. i had to use them through 20 years of my life raising 3 children. trust me they suck. and when the govt runs the hospitals, the employees will all be international services, or belong to a union trade like plumbers, carpenters etc. perfect example, public schools. they teach half the amount for twice the price than any decent private school. 100% unions. this isnt quite rocket science, i am surprised you havent picked this up. or is this just another fact that you chose to overlook?
 
lopezri

lopezri

Well-Known Member
THIS QUESTION IS ABSOLUTELY AN UNFAIR QUESTION!!! The question should be "do you support the bill that congress is trying to pass". I ABSOLUTELY SUPPORT health care reform!!! Unequivocably!!! I don't support this crazy, cooked up bill that only had one party involved in writing it. To get a fair bill for the TAXPAYERS that would have to financially support this bill, decision makers need to be based from the house, senate, insurance companies, AMA (American Medical Association), malpractice lawyers, FDA, leaders of American Holistic Practices, Joe Schmoe from Podunck, Rural, US, Grumpy Old Man and Woman, in general a sweeping slice of America. Why is there no Tort Reform put in this bill. Does everyone understand the Democratic party is supported by the lawyers? Do you understand that the AARP only supported the bill because of a charter from an insurance group guaranteeing them a cut from a major underwriter that would get benefit from all the senior citizens that would be forced to go through them. The AMA ONLY represents 17% of the doctors from the United States.
 
jeff f

jeff f

New Member
The US ranked last in all categories, and was the most expensive, want to talk about that?

no but i would like to talk about your source for the graph


from the "about us" section on their web site.
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The Commonwealth Fund is a private foundation that aims to promote a high performing health care system that achieves better access, improved quality, and greater efficiency, particularly for society's most vulnerable, including low-income people, the uninsured, minority Americans, young children, and elderly adults
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from that intro i am sure its a ligitamate survey. thats what they are telling us, imagine how left wing it realy is? that survey is worth wiping your ass with if its made of any american paper product. dont wipe your ass with it if it is papayas paper. that shit rips your sphincter to pieces ;-)
 
lopezri

lopezri

Well-Known Member
medicineman said:
Unions, where did you see unions in this bill? I agree, this bill is crap, bit is is an improvement on what we have now. The real fixer would have been single payer. BTW, in most countries that have "government" healthcare, Doctors earn the equivalent of 100K and up.

Direct comparisons of health statistics across nations are complex. The Commonwealth Fund, in its annual survey, "Mirror, Mirror on the Wall", compares the performance of the health care systems in Australia, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, Germany, Canada and the U.S. Its 2007 study found that, although the U.S. system is the most expensive, it consistently underperforms compared to the other countries.[11] A major difference between the U.S. and the other countries in the study is that the U.S. is the only country without universal health care. The OECD also collects comparative statistics, and has published brief country profiles.[12][13][14]


Among the six nations studied—Australia, Canada, Germany, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and the United States—the U.S. ranks last, as it did in the 2006 and 2004 editions of Mirror, Mirror. Most troubling, the U.S. fails to achieve better health outcomes than the other countries, and as shown in the earlier editions, the U.S. is last on dimensions of access, patient safety, efficiency, and equity. The 2007 edition includes data from the six countries and incorporates patients' and physicians' survey results on care experiences and ratings on various dimensions of care. BTW, it is also the most expensive per capita.

The US ranked last in all categories, and was the most expensive, want to talk about that?
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I would agree with you on a lot of this Medicineman but one reason why these other countries rank higher in rankings to achieve better healthcare outcomes is because they don't always accept people for healthcare that need it. Much like the senior citizens of this country are concerned about. If your health doesn't show a close to good outcome, including people here who are on dialysis, need transplants, etc., they are refused medical care. Therefore, they end up having to come to the U.S. where the entreprenurial skills of doctors kicks in and they realize major potential financial benefits.

Nothing ever fits into a neat little box to be able to carry it around. . . please remember that.
 
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