SmokeyMcChokey
Well-Known Member
its a loaded pole. i support healthcare reform but i dont supprt mandated insurance or a 1 trillion dollar social insurance package. therefore i refuse to vote.
ancap
Active Member
Sure, I was just building on your idea. My response might have been a little tangential, but if private charity in the absense of taxation becomes more robust, maybe we can assume the same about other government services. In the absense of a government monopoly on road building and maintenance, maybe our roads would be built cheaper, be more innovative and efficient, and be maintained better.
Iron Lion Zion
Well-Known Member
As I have said before, I do not know why this is even called "Health Care Reform." We aren't reforming Health Care, we are reforming Health Insurance... just something that has annoyed me.
There is nothing wrong with Health Care, again as I have said before, the problem lies with malpractice lawsuits.
Health Care personnel are forced into practicing defensive medicine. Rather than being sued by the patient for not being thorough enough, or whatever excuse you can use now, the doctor will instead order multiple other tests just to cover his ass in court. Why wouldn't he when the health insurance pays for it. More tests = More costs to the Insurance provider. More costs to the insurance provider = a higher price of health insurance.
You take away all the petty lawsuits that somehow make it to a courtroom (even if they do not win, the doctor is still paying for his representation), and you will alleviate the costs of health insurance. Only problem is politicians don't want have to deal with all of the pissed off trial lawyers.
This being said, reform for health insurance is needed, but the path we are heading down (me paying for another's health insurance aside) is only going to lead to a candy house in the woods.
There is nothing wrong with Health Care, again as I have said before, the problem lies with malpractice lawsuits.
Health Care personnel are forced into practicing defensive medicine. Rather than being sued by the patient for not being thorough enough, or whatever excuse you can use now, the doctor will instead order multiple other tests just to cover his ass in court. Why wouldn't he when the health insurance pays for it. More tests = More costs to the Insurance provider. More costs to the insurance provider = a higher price of health insurance.
You take away all the petty lawsuits that somehow make it to a courtroom (even if they do not win, the doctor is still paying for his representation), and you will alleviate the costs of health insurance. Only problem is politicians don't want have to deal with all of the pissed off trial lawyers.
This being said, reform for health insurance is needed, but the path we are heading down (me paying for another's health insurance aside) is only going to lead to a candy house in the woods.
K
Keenly
Guest
well, my best friends entire life was affected by a doctor, and he sued him
he will never have full use of his legs because of what that doctor did
he deserves every penny he got from that case
not that this has anything to do with anything, but just thought i would throw in that not all lawsuits are bullshit
(just most)
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
I'm not a fan of obesity. My personal choice is to be active and fit. However when we institutionally support telling others what they can and cannot do with THEIR OWN BODIES, that is wrong.
Careful what you wish for, your line of thinking is the kind authoritarian people use to ratinalize why YOU can't own your body regarding marijuana use. Peace.
I
Illegal Smile
Guest
There are many useful heathcare reforms that both parties could agree on. Republicans have a bill that is 239 pages (compared to 20,000 pages in the obama bill) and it would accomplish much with little dispute. But OH NO! it has to be socialized medicine or nothing! Congress would rather fight and deadlock over extreme proposals that agree on moderate ones.
By the way the cost of the 20,000 page Obama bill comes to 2.2 million per word. That's right, per word! for twenty thousand pages!
By the way the cost of the 20,000 page Obama bill comes to 2.2 million per word. That's right, per word! for twenty thousand pages!
Stoney McFried
Well-Known Member
For those who blame the health care crisis on obesity, please understand our food is not what it once was. Yes, everyone should be personally responsible for their own actions. But when the food that is widely available in our country is basically poison,you can't blame entirely the people who buy it. The reason crap food is so cheap is because it is made with these cheaper,toxic ingredients. It would be great if everyone could eat organically, sure...but do you realize that organic food is way more expensive than the mass produced alternative? And do you know why?Because it is not subsidized, like big corn and some of the other big food producers. Organic farming is harder-if they don't use the big chemicals to increase production like the mass producers, they get less yield.Less yield means less profit, therefore price per unit reflects that. For lower income folks,the choice is clear...buy cheap, get more,eat all month. These same folks may not have health insurance,and may be just above the income guidelines for getting state aid. Therefore, they tend to wait until a health problem becomes unbearable before they seek treatment,often going to the emergency room because it has become really serious. Emergency room costs are outrageous,and these people often simply cannot pay. Therefore, the cost is passed on to those who can. It isn't fat people who are raising healthcare costs. It's the greed of insurance companies,the overinflated price of even simple medical procedures that is creating the problem we have today.Add that to the toxic food,a lower BMI number qualifying as "obese",and more sedentary lifestyles as technology makes our lives more automated than ever,and you've got an "epidemic".
Now I ask you, who created this epidemic if not the very people who are responsible for the quality of our food,and the medical professionals who continue to use a faulty method of measurement such as BMI to determine what qualifies as overweight?
Now I ask you, who created this epidemic if not the very people who are responsible for the quality of our food,and the medical professionals who continue to use a faulty method of measurement such as BMI to determine what qualifies as overweight?
lopezri
Well-Known Member
I can understand where you're coming from. And I'm not saying that it should be mandated to all. I just think an EDUCATION regarding health, proper diet, and making good food choices should be implemented and have a certain proficiency. I'm not saying we should force people to live that way, but they should have a proper education about how to live healthy so they are at least aware when they are making unhealthy choices.
To me, it looks like the obesity problem seems to have increased since the Democrats started to indoctrinate their socialistic ideals into the public school system. And the more propaganda they indoctrinate into the school system, the more obesity seems to become prevalent. That just seems interesting. . . almost like they've been using subliminal messaging on the tubes, video games, food marketing, etc.
Iron Lion Zion
Well-Known Member
I know, and I am sorry for a friend. Obviously, some cases do deserve time in a courtroom, as was the case of your friend. However, the vast majority of cases are simply people seeing an easy way to make money, despite the instability and fragility their cases most likely hold.
stalebiscuit
Well-Known Member
why should i pay for someone i dont know
better question, why should i pay for dumb assholes who get hurt doing dumb shit or drug dealers or home invaders who get shot because of their illegal activity
id rather them die, never have to pay for them again
(also, when did healthcare become a human right?)
Health care is not a right its a service.
The fat people argument is another arguement against this nonsence.
What are we gonna do hire a mass of social workers to come by peoples houses,
and tell them what they need to eat?
Because once this gets to be a collective issue people will be attacked because their a drag on sociaty.
Instead of people taking care of their own finacial matters it becomes everyone elses buisness.
The fat people argument is another arguement against this nonsence.
What are we gonna do hire a mass of social workers to come by peoples houses,
and tell them what they need to eat?
Because once this gets to be a collective issue people will be attacked because their a drag on sociaty.
Instead of people taking care of their own finacial matters it becomes everyone elses buisness.
medicineman
New Member
So fat people are the democrats fault. I've heard some lame blame laid on the Dems, but I believe this one tops them all.
Stoney McFried
Well-Known Member
Nope, we as consumers just need to start demanding better food and healthier ingredients in that food.
ancap
Active Member
Exactly! And it's not necessarily only the democrats fault, but you can't ignore the fact that by the government subsidizing corn and beef, they are artificially lowering the cost of some very unhealthy foods which creates a swell in demand. The government is encouraging the consumption of fast foods and sugary drinks.