tomatochewer
Member
i hope your still around bro, you have done some crazy work, i wish i seen what you had before i bought stuff.
Heaths Flooded Tube Vertical
- Thread starter Heath Robinson
- Start date
tomatochewer
Member
does anyone know where there is more info on heaths 4" soil pipe cage?
i found the overgrow link but its obviously dead,
whos the good guy thats gonna help me find some info on that?
i found the overgrow link but its obviously dead,
whos the good guy thats gonna help me find some info on that?
VertFarmer
Active Member
He uses 3" (or 8cm) ones...
Black Thumb
Well-Known Member
Heath i love watching your grows would have loved to have been able to save all the hg420 grows you did.
I see you say EC 1.2 is max you would go.
In hanna ppm that is around 650 or something.
Is this right you don't go over 600 - 650 ppms on your plants?
Also when you hang your bulb is it exactly center to your plants vertically? 3 ft high structure, does the bulb hang 1.5 feet from the ground?
Thanks
I see you say EC 1.2 is max you would go.
In hanna ppm that is around 650 or something.
Is this right you don't go over 600 - 650 ppms on your plants?
Also when you hang your bulb is it exactly center to your plants vertically? 3 ft high structure, does the bulb hang 1.5 feet from the ground?
Thanks
squarepush3r
Well-Known Member
I don't think Heath directly answers questions here anymore, but yes he does run really low EC/PPM. He posted a chart on why he does this, essentially it prevents over over-fert and plants can do fine with less than burning nutrient levels.
not sure about the dimensions, but you could probably find some exact numbers in some of the earlier posts.
InvestInMe
Well-Known Member
I would like to knwo where the bulb is positioned as well.
Black Thumb
Well-Known Member
What i don't understand, he says he doesn't go past 1.2 - 1.4 EC.
But his plants look like they have excessive nitrogen and the tips are burnt.
Can anyone explain this?
Here is a pic from this grow, the tips are BARELY BARELY BARELY burnt you have to look hard.
https://www.rollitup.org/members/heath-robinson-albums-heath-picture70264-dscf1855.jpg
Photo below from his strainguide grow.
http://strainguide.org/wp-content/uploads/racks/16DSCF7899.JPG
But his plants look like they have excessive nitrogen and the tips are burnt.
Can anyone explain this?
Here is a pic from this grow, the tips are BARELY BARELY BARELY burnt you have to look hard.
https://www.rollitup.org/members/heath-robinson-albums-heath-picture70264-dscf1855.jpg
Photo below from his strainguide grow.
http://strainguide.org/wp-content/uploads/racks/16DSCF7899.JPG
squarepush3r
Well-Known Member
he commented somewhere in this thread, that plants will do fine with undernutrients, but will die with over nutrients. In fact, there is a large area from where a plant will be over fertilized, to where it will show less yields because of too little nutrients. So, he aims low and never risks over-fertilizing, and unless there is something he didn't tell us, it seems to work well for him.
I think its probably posted somewhere in this thread, but did anyone catch which brand/type of nutrients/additives Heath uses?
-Square
Black Thumb
Well-Known Member
Did anyone ever copy down his formula From OG or Hg420 or the other places he used to dwell?
Curious what nutes he was using.
It seems at 800ppm - 1000ppms My plants are showing Nitrogen Def and starving.
I would like to use his low EC system which would put me at 500ppm half of what i use now.
But i just cant find any logic to this, its more of a faith thing.
If you are around and lurking Heath Please clear this up for me.
Curious what nutes he was using.
It seems at 800ppm - 1000ppms My plants are showing Nitrogen Def and starving.
I would like to use his low EC system which would put me at 500ppm half of what i use now.
But i just cant find any logic to this, its more of a faith thing.
If you are around and lurking Heath Please clear this up for me.
resinraider
Well-Known Member
Dam! This looks sik. I have a question. U said u did areo b4, did u use the round piping for that as well? I'm jus wondering how u kept water from leaking out of the tube where the net cup sits or does it fit snug to the pipe?
VertFarmer
Active Member
Ok for all of you who don't feel like reading the entire thread, I have summerized most of the important points from Heath below. Most of the questions asked have been answered earlier, so check this out if you need info.
·It holds 86 plants,
·I have grown a lot of KC brains stock and my favorites are KC 36, Leda Uno and Mango hope that helps.
·If you are looking for yield and quality get something from serious seeds, AK47, chronic, white russian and buble gum are all excellent and easy to grow.
·I would suggest a sea of green using spacing’s between plants at a maximum of 12inch spacing.
·at about 3 weeks into flower I usually trim the bottom third of the plants which helps form better buds higher up the plant. In any case you should remove any weak growth.
·Its approx 5 foot tall
·It is 62 inches (155cm) external diameter and the same shape as the inside.
·its very easy to clean, the roots pull out in one piece and any bits can be swilled out into the res, or I can simply pull the ends off each run.
·I never sterilise the systems I run unless I have had a problem.
·we are at week 1 of 12/12 and i have just taken 100+ cuttings off the plants in the vert ready for the next round
·If you keep the nutrient temps below 74f and circulate then the water will stay sweet
·I enter the vert there (where feedline enters) its quite simple to do, I will give the plants a trim in a weeks time and after that I wont enter it again until harvest.
·The plants should end up around 12 to 14 inches tall.
·I am using Vitalink at an EC of 1.0
·A 400l per hour pump is more than enough I run this one (edit: MaxiJet 1000) on a bypass to reduce the flow,
·I was running the 3K (Sunpulse bulb) last week but have decided to change back to my normal growlux HPS as I was having too much growth and the budding seemed later than normal. I
am running the Sunpulse bulbs on a bush grow and they are fine so it might just be that they aren’t ideally suited to vertical grows?.
·The adjustable collars are there because I like to experiment and they allow me to run the tubes full or empty, they don’t need to be adjustable though because the best way to run the system is flooded to the bottom of the pots. This could be done with a dam which wasn’t adjustable.
·The secret is to recirculate the nutrients quickly and then there will be plenty of DO due to the water surface to air contact. If you want to run it as an nft system then there would be no need for the collars.
·the res is quite small probably 10 gallon or something like. It is topped up automatically from the mains supply. If you couldn’t do that then the res would have to be bigger.
·I don’t need mothers as the cuttings are taken from the plants in the vertical about two weeks into flower.
·Trimming: yes I take off unwanted leaves and small weak shoots throughout the grow until about the 4th week of flower.
·The cuttings are used in this grow were 3 weeks old grown in 1 inch rockwool blocks. I place them into the netpot and fill with hydroton. The water level in the tube touches the bottom of the net pot so there is no problem of them drying out.
·3 weeks as cuttings under fluros and one week in the system, normally i wouldn’t veg in the system but on this occasion I did.
·The system is partially drained once a week and new nutrients added.
·I always use a carbon filter to remove smells and so should you!. The fan at the bottom is to move the air around the grow.
·The intake is passive and I exchange the air in the room twice a minute whatever system I am using.
·To maximise yield you have to surround the bulb, and the optimum internal size is 4ft.
·4 rows 8 inch spacing.
·The smell is easily dealt with by using a good quality carbon filter which is rated higher than the extraction of your room.
·The adhesive is silicone sealer, if you want to make sure that you are buying the right type you can use the stuff they make glass fish tanks out of as its non toxic and lasts forever.
·Contrary to what the nutrient manufacturers want you to believe they are pretty much all the same, I am using Vitalink on this grow but I also use Canna and Ionic which is the easiest to use as it is a one part nutrient.
·The plants stay green because for the first two or three weeks of flower I keep them on veg nutrients to stop premature yellowing and leaf drop at the end of the grow.
·The health of the plants depends on many factors but important ones to consider are ventilation, cool nutrient temps, making sure the roots have plenty of dissolved oxygen, and don’t over feed the plants I typically feed at an EC of 1.2.
·week 6 of 12/12 and everything is running as expected and the EC is still at 1.0.
·the last two pics are of the clones which will be going into the system when these come out. They are in some bread trays which I have modified into a simple ebb and flow!.
·that viking looks alot like northern lights #5,someone gave me a cutting thats from 96 he said it was NL#5 it finishes in about 50 days,it looks a lot like that.
·The harvest was 46 0z (1288g = 2.15g/W!)
·I dry at a relative humidity of approx 62 and temps of approx 72, the stems should crack rather than bend when fully dry
·the buds also need to feel dry to the touch but obviously not too dry that they crumble to dust, a humidity of 62 helps prevent this.
·I never flush in any case as I don't like to feed at high nutrient concentrations.
·I use 600w hps Sylvania Growlux bulbs, I have tried many other makes but I have settled on these, I consider them the best.
·the secret to any clone grow is the ability keep healthy mother plants and be confident that if you take 1000 cuttings you will have 100% success or as near that as humanly possible.
·I keep my big mother plants in water/aquafarms
·the cuttings are rooted in 1" rockwool blocks as these will transplant into any medium once rooted.
·If I grow from cuttings I definitely trim them up as I want them spaced close together and to grow a single cola,
·Growing 12/12 from seed means that the plant grows a single cola without much help so I dont tend to do much on this grow.
·The whole system runs in a full condition the water level is toutching the bottom of the net pots. The pump runs 24/7 so in effect what we have is similar to deep water culture but the main difference is the fast flow rate and I never leave a gap under the net pots
·recirculating deep water culture hybrid system. This sounds complicated but is actually very simple and much more effective than a simple deep water culture system.
From Heath's mini vertical
·it uses one 600w MH and one mj1000 pump. It holds up to 100 cuttings but on this occasion had 70+
·It measures 44" across and stands 30" high
·the yield was 38.4 Oz = 1.8 grams per watt
Enjoy
-- VertFarmer
·It holds 86 plants,
·I have grown a lot of KC brains stock and my favorites are KC 36, Leda Uno and Mango hope that helps.
·If you are looking for yield and quality get something from serious seeds, AK47, chronic, white russian and buble gum are all excellent and easy to grow.
·I would suggest a sea of green using spacing’s between plants at a maximum of 12inch spacing.
·at about 3 weeks into flower I usually trim the bottom third of the plants which helps form better buds higher up the plant. In any case you should remove any weak growth.
·Its approx 5 foot tall
·It is 62 inches (155cm) external diameter and the same shape as the inside.
·its very easy to clean, the roots pull out in one piece and any bits can be swilled out into the res, or I can simply pull the ends off each run.
·I never sterilise the systems I run unless I have had a problem.
·we are at week 1 of 12/12 and i have just taken 100+ cuttings off the plants in the vert ready for the next round
·If you keep the nutrient temps below 74f and circulate then the water will stay sweet
·I enter the vert there (where feedline enters) its quite simple to do, I will give the plants a trim in a weeks time and after that I wont enter it again until harvest.
·The plants should end up around 12 to 14 inches tall.
·I am using Vitalink at an EC of 1.0
·A 400l per hour pump is more than enough I run this one (edit: MaxiJet 1000) on a bypass to reduce the flow,
·I was running the 3K (Sunpulse bulb) last week but have decided to change back to my normal growlux HPS as I was having too much growth and the budding seemed later than normal. I
am running the Sunpulse bulbs on a bush grow and they are fine so it might just be that they aren’t ideally suited to vertical grows?.
·The adjustable collars are there because I like to experiment and they allow me to run the tubes full or empty, they don’t need to be adjustable though because the best way to run the system is flooded to the bottom of the pots. This could be done with a dam which wasn’t adjustable.
·The secret is to recirculate the nutrients quickly and then there will be plenty of DO due to the water surface to air contact. If you want to run it as an nft system then there would be no need for the collars.
·the res is quite small probably 10 gallon or something like. It is topped up automatically from the mains supply. If you couldn’t do that then the res would have to be bigger.
·I don’t need mothers as the cuttings are taken from the plants in the vertical about two weeks into flower.
·Trimming: yes I take off unwanted leaves and small weak shoots throughout the grow until about the 4th week of flower.
·The cuttings are used in this grow were 3 weeks old grown in 1 inch rockwool blocks. I place them into the netpot and fill with hydroton. The water level in the tube touches the bottom of the net pot so there is no problem of them drying out.
·3 weeks as cuttings under fluros and one week in the system, normally i wouldn’t veg in the system but on this occasion I did.
·The system is partially drained once a week and new nutrients added.
·I always use a carbon filter to remove smells and so should you!. The fan at the bottom is to move the air around the grow.
·The intake is passive and I exchange the air in the room twice a minute whatever system I am using.
·To maximise yield you have to surround the bulb, and the optimum internal size is 4ft.
·4 rows 8 inch spacing.
·The smell is easily dealt with by using a good quality carbon filter which is rated higher than the extraction of your room.
·The adhesive is silicone sealer, if you want to make sure that you are buying the right type you can use the stuff they make glass fish tanks out of as its non toxic and lasts forever.
·Contrary to what the nutrient manufacturers want you to believe they are pretty much all the same, I am using Vitalink on this grow but I also use Canna and Ionic which is the easiest to use as it is a one part nutrient.
·The plants stay green because for the first two or three weeks of flower I keep them on veg nutrients to stop premature yellowing and leaf drop at the end of the grow.
·The health of the plants depends on many factors but important ones to consider are ventilation, cool nutrient temps, making sure the roots have plenty of dissolved oxygen, and don’t over feed the plants I typically feed at an EC of 1.2.
·week 6 of 12/12 and everything is running as expected and the EC is still at 1.0.
·the last two pics are of the clones which will be going into the system when these come out. They are in some bread trays which I have modified into a simple ebb and flow!.
·that viking looks alot like northern lights #5,someone gave me a cutting thats from 96 he said it was NL#5 it finishes in about 50 days,it looks a lot like that.
·The harvest was 46 0z (1288g = 2.15g/W!)
·I dry at a relative humidity of approx 62 and temps of approx 72, the stems should crack rather than bend when fully dry
·the buds also need to feel dry to the touch but obviously not too dry that they crumble to dust, a humidity of 62 helps prevent this.
·I never flush in any case as I don't like to feed at high nutrient concentrations.
·I use 600w hps Sylvania Growlux bulbs, I have tried many other makes but I have settled on these, I consider them the best.
·the secret to any clone grow is the ability keep healthy mother plants and be confident that if you take 1000 cuttings you will have 100% success or as near that as humanly possible.
·I keep my big mother plants in water/aquafarms
·the cuttings are rooted in 1" rockwool blocks as these will transplant into any medium once rooted.
·If I grow from cuttings I definitely trim them up as I want them spaced close together and to grow a single cola,
·Growing 12/12 from seed means that the plant grows a single cola without much help so I dont tend to do much on this grow.
·The whole system runs in a full condition the water level is toutching the bottom of the net pots. The pump runs 24/7 so in effect what we have is similar to deep water culture but the main difference is the fast flow rate and I never leave a gap under the net pots
·recirculating deep water culture hybrid system. This sounds complicated but is actually very simple and much more effective than a simple deep water culture system.
From Heath's mini vertical
·it uses one 600w MH and one mj1000 pump. It holds up to 100 cuttings but on this occasion had 70+
·It measures 44" across and stands 30" high
·the yield was 38.4 Oz = 1.8 grams per watt
Enjoy
-- VertFarmer
VertFarmer
Active Member
I too have a few questions for Heath in case he comes by some day and feels like spending a couple of minutes:
1.Do you use any additives besides your basic hydro nutes as in flower, trich and root boosters, anti gibberelins for stretch control (e.g. bushmaster, phosphoload) and if so can you recommend any products in particular? Are your stated EC values exclusive booster content?
2.In your Viking grow you used an EC of 1.0 and for your Chronic&Critical Mass grows an EC of 1.2. Are these numbers based on RO water and if so, do you consider RO key?
3.You have written that you always replace the air twice per minute. This is up to 6 times higher than the standard advise. Why do you use such a high air exchange rate? Do you reckon it is a key part of your succes regarding high yields (CO2) or is it more to control temp/hum?
4.When you say you replace air twice per minute (120 air exchanges/hour) do you take your carbon filter into account or is this purely based on the stated capacity of the fan? That is, do you multiply the volume to be replaced by 120 or do you multiply by 240, given that a carbon filter reduces efficiency by 50%?
5. You apparently consider Sylvania Grolux the best HPS bulbs. A lot of growers have had problems with these bulbs in combination with digi ballasts. What kind of ballast do you use and have you had any problems with these bulbs?
6. How much air circulation do you find suitable for these systems? Will a 6” clip-on fan do or is it too small?
7. Your Critical Mass run thread was never finished sadly. What yields did you achieve on that strain in the flooded vert?
Thanks again, --VertFarmer
1.Do you use any additives besides your basic hydro nutes as in flower, trich and root boosters, anti gibberelins for stretch control (e.g. bushmaster, phosphoload) and if so can you recommend any products in particular? Are your stated EC values exclusive booster content?
2.In your Viking grow you used an EC of 1.0 and for your Chronic&Critical Mass grows an EC of 1.2. Are these numbers based on RO water and if so, do you consider RO key?
3.You have written that you always replace the air twice per minute. This is up to 6 times higher than the standard advise. Why do you use such a high air exchange rate? Do you reckon it is a key part of your succes regarding high yields (CO2) or is it more to control temp/hum?
4.When you say you replace air twice per minute (120 air exchanges/hour) do you take your carbon filter into account or is this purely based on the stated capacity of the fan? That is, do you multiply the volume to be replaced by 120 or do you multiply by 240, given that a carbon filter reduces efficiency by 50%?
5. You apparently consider Sylvania Grolux the best HPS bulbs. A lot of growers have had problems with these bulbs in combination with digi ballasts. What kind of ballast do you use and have you had any problems with these bulbs?
6. How much air circulation do you find suitable for these systems? Will a 6” clip-on fan do or is it too small?
7. Your Critical Mass run thread was never finished sadly. What yields did you achieve on that strain in the flooded vert?
Thanks again, --VertFarmer
greenyield
Well-Known Member
i have seen an upto date post by heath on another site called growkind and breedbay, he has a perpetual harvest wilma going on.
i think he has lost interest in this thread or whatever.
i have to question 26oz from 10 plants though, they dont even fill out a 1m sq space.
he seems to do what no other person can.
it all seems to good to be true.
i think he has lost interest in this thread or whatever.
i have to question 26oz from 10 plants though, they dont even fill out a 1m sq space.
he seems to do what no other person can.
it all seems to good to be true.
friendlyfarmer
Active Member
I haven't seen the grow you are speaking of so I can't make a judgement. However, with this setup his yield seems entirely possible since he's claiming approximately 1/2 oz per plant. Also, I have seen a single plant in a DWC Scrog that yielded a full pound under a 400W hps. It's on ICmag somewhere if you wanna check it out. Anyways what I'm trying to say is i think it's definitely possible to get insane yields with a little innovation and a serious investment of time. Just imagine what would be possible if everyone was able to experiment without chance of legal trouble! Can you send me a link to the grow you're speaking of? Thanks in advance!
Awesome^∞ Heath!
Heath Robinson
Well-Known Member
Hi VertFarmer
Good questions,
1, No I dont use additives, on the tree grows I sometimes use liquid silicon which helps prevent bud rot on large colas. If yo feel like you need to use an additive try PK13/14 as its cheap and is a belt and braces approach (if your plants have a P or K deficiency it will help).
2, No the dissolved solids in my tap water are only .2 so I dont need to use RO. RO is definitely worth considering if you have high EC as a starting point.
3, I do it to control the temp and humidity, I have found that the higher rates save me lots of problems with mould due to dense colas. (I dont use co2).
4, I make sure the carbon filter is rated at whatever I want my extraction to be.
5, Up to press the Sylvania Grolux have given me the best results. I have seen that others have had problems with them but luckily I haven't. I use the old lumatek ballasts (silver) and the new blue lumatek's with the super lumens switch.
6, Due to the high extraction rate in these rooms only a small amount of air movement is needed but I find a big slow fan is better than a small high revving fan.
7, Sorry I cant remember! I have run a few strains through her, I usually only remember if I post up the weight in a grow thread.
greenyield, thanks for stopping by and adding your comments.
friendlyfarmer I think a lot of what you say is true, I have spent my growing time looking at growing from different angles and thinking outside of the box. All I ask is for growers to take the best bits in my threads and use the information anyway they see fit.
One of the reasons my threads are detailed are so others can replicate the grows. I am a firm believer in "repeatability" what I mean by this is the ability of others to copy the system and get the same results as me which many have done in the past.
Growers run the same risk whether they are growing poorly or growing well.
I will be putting up a new thread later in which I am running a scrog with a flip flop swiching between two 600w shades over the grow, should be interesting I will post up the link later.
Thanks to you all for calling in
Heath
Good questions,
1, No I dont use additives, on the tree grows I sometimes use liquid silicon which helps prevent bud rot on large colas. If yo feel like you need to use an additive try PK13/14 as its cheap and is a belt and braces approach (if your plants have a P or K deficiency it will help).
2, No the dissolved solids in my tap water are only .2 so I dont need to use RO. RO is definitely worth considering if you have high EC as a starting point.
3, I do it to control the temp and humidity, I have found that the higher rates save me lots of problems with mould due to dense colas. (I dont use co2).
4, I make sure the carbon filter is rated at whatever I want my extraction to be.
5, Up to press the Sylvania Grolux have given me the best results. I have seen that others have had problems with them but luckily I haven't. I use the old lumatek ballasts (silver) and the new blue lumatek's with the super lumens switch.
6, Due to the high extraction rate in these rooms only a small amount of air movement is needed but I find a big slow fan is better than a small high revving fan.
7, Sorry I cant remember! I have run a few strains through her, I usually only remember if I post up the weight in a grow thread.
greenyield, thanks for stopping by and adding your comments.
friendlyfarmer I think a lot of what you say is true, I have spent my growing time looking at growing from different angles and thinking outside of the box. All I ask is for growers to take the best bits in my threads and use the information anyway they see fit.
One of the reasons my threads are detailed are so others can replicate the grows. I am a firm believer in "repeatability" what I mean by this is the ability of others to copy the system and get the same results as me which many have done in the past.
Growers run the same risk whether they are growing poorly or growing well.
I will be putting up a new thread later in which I am running a scrog with a flip flop swiching between two 600w shades over the grow, should be interesting I will post up the link later.
Thanks to you all for calling in
Heath
InvestInMe
Well-Known Member
Awesom welcome back
jflo
Active Member
sick ass design!!! very tight looking and efficient...only thought would be that the pvc is a rather small diameter and it will limit your root ball possibilities...but if it works for you..dont try to fix it!!!! love the stadium riser approach to maximize the vertical light foot print!Thanks Picasso345
nowthen Aeroking, you have obviously been reading the wrong growthreads then! lol. I can show plenty of my own examples from a single cannabis tree grow which weighed 42 0z to numerous grow threads vertical and sog.
To be honest I have never heard that fast recirculating DWC is a "mediocre method" I learnt to do my own thing and dont pay much attention to anything I read on grow forums. Anytime you read something, see if the grower can back up their claims because unfortunately there are lots of poor growers masquerading as experts on all the grow forums.
You can answer your own question by building your vertical and converting it to aero or Vice-versa and see which has the biggest yields.
thats how I would do it.
good luck
Heath
