help me sort out potassium options?

im4satori

im4satori

Well-Known Member
keep in mind

I don't mean ppm as in what your ppm/ec meter will read

I mean actual ppm like what youd expect to see in a water analysis

your ppm meter will read higher than 81ppm at that rate
id guess itll read somethihg more like 150ppm on the meter depending on the conversion rate
 
im4satori

im4satori

Well-Known Member
my goal is to get the K built into the soil and not have as much need to water in fertilizers

im already using kelp at a rate of 2 parts in my amendment mix but still not getting enough K from that and im not sure to what point the kelp becomes too much

my last batch I made the soil amendment mix like this

2part kelp
1 part crab
1part neem
1 part alfalfa
1/2 part fish

and I used about 2 cups per cb ft

the more recent recycle I used
2part kelp
2part alfalfa
1part neem
1part crab
1/2 part fish

and I also added some feather meal and bone meal to stretch things out a bit longer
the bone meal I only intend on adding small amounts every other recycle
the feather meal will become a std part of my mix in the future and eventually I might drop the fish meal when ive used up what I have

I also added about 3/4 cup green sand per cb ft but that wont start to put out any K for a long while
 
Last edited:
BudmanTX

BudmanTX

Well-Known Member
bone meal has some in it, thats what i use in my combination

you can also use potato's skin get it to ash and use that, i have a full list or organic stuff with npk ratios with it
 
BudmanTX

BudmanTX

Well-Known Member
This is a list of organic stuff to help people with there organic soils. Hope this help in the NPK ratios of people who use organics

here's a list of material for composting etc / with NPK values.
Material Nitrogen Phosphoric acid Potash
Alfalfa hay 2.45 0.5 2.1
Apple fruit 0.05 0.02 0.1
Apple leaves 1 0.15 0.35
Apple pomace 0.2 0.02 0.15
Apple skin (ash) - 3.08 11.74
Banana skin (ash) - 3.25 41.76
Banana stalk (ash) - 2.34 49.4
Barley (grain) 1.75 0.75 0.5
Bat guano 6 9 -
Bean and pod 0.25 0.08 0.3
Beet waste 0.4 0.4 3
Beet waste (root) 0.25 0.1 0.5
Blood meal 15 1.3 0.7
Bone meal 4 21 0.2
Bone (ground and burned) - 34.7 -
Brewer's grains (wet) 0.9 0.5 0.05
Brigham tea (ash) - - 5.94
Cantaloupe rind (ash) - 9.77 12.21
Castor bean pomace 5.5 2.25 1.13
Cattail reed & water lilly 2.02 0.81 3.43
Cattail seed 0.98 0.39 1.71
Chicken manure 1.63 1.54 0.85
Coal ash (anthracite) - 0.125 0.125
Coal ash (bituminous) - 0.45 0.45
Cocoa shell dust 1.04 1.49 2.71
Coffee grounds 2.08 0.32 0.28
Coffee grounds (dried) 1.99 0.36 0.67
Corn (grain) 1.65 0.65 0.4
Corn (green forage) 0.3 0.13 0.33
Corncob (ground, charred) - - 2.01
Corncob (ash) - - 50
Cotton seed 3.15 1.25 1.15
Cottonseed meal 7 2.5 1.5
Cottonseed-hull (ash) - 8.7 23.93
Cotton waste 1.32 0.45 0.36
Cow manure (fresh) 0.29 0.17 0.1
Cowpea, green forage 0.45 0.12 0.45
Cowpes, seed 3.1 1 1.2
Crab (common) 1.95 3.6 0.2
Crab (king, dried and ground) 10 0.25 0.06
Crab (king, fresh) 2.3 - -
Crabgrass 0.66 0.19 0.71
Cucumber skin (ash) - 11.28 27.2
Dog manure (fresh) 1.97 9.95 0.3
Duck manure (fresh) 1.12 1.44 0.49
Egg 2.25 0.4 0.15
Eggshell (burned) - 0.43 0.29
Eggshell 1.19 0.38 0.14
Feather 15.3 - -
Felt hat factory waste 3.8 - 0.98
Field bean (seed) 4 1.2 1.3
Field bean (shell) 1.7 0.3 1.3
Fish scrap (red snapper) 7.76 13 0.38
Fish scrap (fresh) 6.5 3.75 -
Greasewood (ash) - - 12.61
Gluten feed 4.5 - -
Greensand - 1.5 5
Grape leaves 0.45 0.1 0.35
Grapes (fruit) 0.15 0.07 0.3
Grapefruit skin (ash) - 3.58 30.6
Hair 14 - -
Hare and rabbit waste 7 2.4 0.6
Hoof meal and horn dust 12.5 1.75 -
Horse manure (fresh) 0.44 0.17 0.35
Incinerator ash 0.24 5.15 2.33
Jellyfish (dried) 4.6 - -
Leather (acidulated) 7.5 - -
Leather (ground) 11 - -
Leather (ash) - 2.16 0.35
Lemon cull 0.15 0.06 0.26
Lemon skin - 6.3 31
Lobster (refuse) 4.5 3.5 -
Lobster (shell) 4.6 3.52 -
Milk 0.5 0.3 0.18
Mud (fresh water) 1.37 0.26 0.22
Mud (harbour) 0.99 0.77 0.05
Mussel 0.9 0.12 0.13
Mussel mud (dried) 0.72 0.35 -
Molasses residue (brewing) 0.7 - 5.32
Moss 0.6 0.1 0.55
Oak leaf 0.8 0.35 0.15
Oats grain 2 0.8 0.6
Olive pomace 1.15 0.78 1.26
Olive refuse 1.22 0.18 0.32
Orange cull 0.2 0.13 0.21
Orange skin (ash) - 2.9 27
Oyster shell 0.36 10.38 0.09
Paint processing waste 0.02 39.5 -
Pea pod (ash) - 1.79 9
Peach leaf 0.9 0.15 0.6
Peanut (seed & kernel) 3.6 0.7 4.5
Peanut shell 0.8 0.15 0.5
Peanut shell (ash) - 1.23 6.45
Pigeon manure (fresh) 4.19 2.24 1.41
Pig manue (fresh) 0.6 0.41 0.13
Pigweed (rough) 0.6 0.16 -
Pine needle 0.46 0.12 0.03
Potato (tuber) 0.35 0.15 0.5
Potato (leaf and stalk) 0.6 0.15 0.45
Potato skin (ash) - 5.18 27.5
Poudrette 1.46 3.68 0.48
Powderworks waste 2.5 - 17
Prune refuse 0.18 0.7 0.31
Pumpkin (fresh) 0.16 0.07 0.26
Pumpkin seed 0.87 0.5 0.45
Rabbit brush (ash) - - 13.04
Ragweed 0.76 0.26 -
Redtop hay 1.2 0.35 1
Rhubarb stem 0.1 0.04 0.35
Rockweed 1.9 0.25 3.68
Rose (flower) 0.3 0.1 0.4
Salt-marsh hay 1.1 0.25 0.75
Salt mud 0.4 - -
Sardine scrap 7.97 7.11 -
Seawood 1.68 0.75 4.93
Sheep manure (fresh) 0.55 0.31 0.15
Shoddy and felt 8 - -
Shrimp head (dried) 7.82 4.2 -
Shrimp waste 2.87 9.95 -
Silt waste 9.5 - -
Silk mill waste 8.37 1.14 0.12
Silk worm cocoon 9.42 1.82 1.08
Sludge 2 1.9 0.3
Sludge (activated) 5 3.25 0.6
Sludge from sewer beds 0.74 0.33 0.24
Soot from chimney fllue 5.25 1.05 0.35
Starfish 1.8 0.2 0.25
Sunflower seed 2.25 1.25 0.79
Sugar (raw, residue) 1.14 8.33 -
Sweet potato skins (ash) - 3.29 13.89
Sweet potato 0.25 0.1 0.5
Tanbark (ash) - 0.34 3.8
Tanbark ash (spent) - 1.75 2
Tankage 6 5 -
Tea grounds 4.15 0.62 0.4
Tea leaves (ash) - 1.6 0.44
Timothy hay 1.25 0.55 1
Tobacco leaves 4 0.5 6
Tobacco stalk 3.7 0.65 4.5
Tobacco stem 2.5 0.9 7
Tomato fruit 0.2 0.07 0.35
Tomato leaves 0.35 0.1 0.4
Tomato stalk 0.35 0.1 0.5
Wheat, bran 2.65 2.9 1.6
Wheat grain 2 0.85 0.5
Wheat straw 0.5 0.15 0.6
White clover (green) 0.5 0.2 0.3
White sage (ash) - - 13.77
Wood ash (leached) - 1.25 2
Wood ash (unleached) - 1.5 7
Wool waste 5.5 3 2
Manures


source ------------N P K ----------------------comments
Rabbit manure- 2.4 1.4 0.6 Most concentrated of animal manures in fresh form.
Cow manure (dairy)- 0.6 0.2 0.5 Often contains weed seeds, should be hot omposted.
Steer manure- 0.7 0.3 0.4 Often contains weed seeds, should be hot composted if fresh.
Chicken manure- 1.1 0.8 0.5 Fast acting, breaks down quickest of all manures.
Use carefully, may burn. Also, stinks like hell - composting definitely recommended.
Horse manure- 0.7 0.3 0.6 Medium breakdown time.
Duck manure- 0.6 1.4 0.5 .
Sheep manure- 0.7 0.3 0.9 .
Worm castings- 0.5 0.5 0.3 50% organic material plus 11 trace minerals. Great for seedlings, will not burn.
Is a form of compost, so doesn't need composting.
Desert Bat Guano- 8 4 1 Also contains trace elements. Fast-acting, mix in soil or as tea (1 C guano to 5 gal. water).
Cave Bat Guano- 3 10 1 .
Fossilized Seabird Guano- 1 10 1 Slow release over 3 to 12 weeks, best used as an addition to potting mix.
Peruvian Seabird Guano- (pelletized) 12 12 2.5 Legendary fertilizer of the Incas. Use in soil as a long lasting fertilizer, or make into tea (1 tsp pellets to 1 gallon water).


hope this help u
 
BudmanTX

BudmanTX

Well-Known Member
im4satori said:
the green sand has a relatively high amount of K

maybe I just gotta keep on adding in the soluble K until the green sand starts to break down
Click to expand...
with it at a 5, it would prolly last a while, i like letting my soils cook for a bit, it the summers, prolly only the best time for me cause weather where i'm at can 100 for a full month, that when i like to cook my stuff, you could also use coffee ground, even though its just a little, every little bit helps in the long run
 
im4satori

im4satori

Well-Known Member
so I went to the garden center today and took a look at the potash and langibinite/k-mag

if you look at the label it clearly says the potassium is fully water soluble for all of them

the one difference I did notice is the potash has a much more course grade than the potassium sulfate which is fine screened like baby powder

so I bought a small box of the potash,
im going to add some to bucket of water and see how long it takes to dissolve
 
im4satori

im4satori

Well-Known Member
so I just completed slurry tests for NPK on all my pots

I didi the pots that are cooking
the pots that just went into bloom
and the pots that are about to be recycled

all three tests where depleted in K but surplus of N and adequate P

so I watered them in with a heavy dose of mono potassium phosphate and potassium sulfate and a little magnesium sulfate
guessing the mix was around EC 1.0 ish



the potash with its course grade has been sitting in water for a couple hours and still not dissolved, we will see how it does over a few days, but it does appear to be slower dissolving that potassium sulfate which dissolves almost instantly
 
im4satori

im4satori

Well-Known Member
id love to hear from

@Wetdog
@greasemonkeymann
@Dr. Who
@calliandra

to help me sort out my confusion over the potassium sulfate vs the sulfate of potash

are they basically the same exact thing only one is finer screened than the other
does the sulfate of potash break down slowly as to release over time and not create a hot EC environment that affects biology if cooked in

if I cook in 1/4 cup per cubic ft of potassium sulfate fine powder isn't it the same thing as using liquid soluble salt fertilizers that reduce biology at high EC?

http://rollitup.org/t/lets-get-dirty.937239/page-13#post-13805090

if you can take some time to look at my NPK slurry results in my journal and help me sort out how to adjust id really appreciate it

you don't have to read thru the journal as I know its time consuming, maybe just check out my last few posts

thank you
 
Rasta Roy

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
"

Potassium Magnesium Sulfate: Langbeinite






Langbeinite is a unique source of plant nutrition, since three essential nutrients combine naturally into one mineral. It provides a readily available supply of Potassium (K), Magnesium (Mg) and Sulfur (S) to growing plants.

Production

A distinctive geological material, langbeinite exists in only a few locations in the world. Commercial supplies of langbeinite come from underground mines near Carlsbad, N.M., which were first commercially developed in the 1930s. These deposits formed millions of years ago, when a variety of salts, including langbeinite, were left behind after the evaporation of ancient ocean beds. These salt deposits were buried deep beneath hundreds of meters of sediment. The langbeinite deposit is currently mined with large boring machines, washed to remove impurities and then crushed to various particle sizes. Langbeinite is considered a potash (or K-containing) fertilizer, even though it also contains valuable Mg and S. Traces of iron oxide impurities give some langbeinite particles a reddish tint.





Agricultural use

Nutrient-dense langbeinite is a popular fertilizer, especially where several nutrients are needed to provide adequate plant nutrition. Its advantage of having K, Mg and S all contained within each of its particles helps provide a uniform distribution of nutrients as farmers spread it through fields. Due to economics, agronomists don’t always recommend langbeinite to meet the entire K requirement of a crop. Instead, application rate may be based on the need for Mg, S, or both.

Langbeinite is water soluble, but dissolves slower than some other common K fertilizers because its particles are denser than other K sources. Therefore, it’s unsuitable for dissolving and applying through irrigation systems unless its finely ground. It has a neutral pH, and does not contribute to soil acidity or alkalinity. This differs from other common Mg sources such as dolomite, which will increase soil pH, and from elemental S or ammonium sulfate, which will lower the soil pH.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
im4satori said:
id love to hear from

@Wetdog
@greasemonkeymann
@Dr. Who
@calliandra

to help me sort out my confusion over the potassium sulfate vs the sulfate of potash

are they basically the same exact thing only one is finer screened than the other
does the sulfate of potash break down slowly as to release over time and not create a hot EC environment that affects biology if cooked in

if I cook in 1/4 cup per cubic ft of potassium sulfate fine powder isn't it the same thing as using liquid soluble salt fertilizers that reduce biology at high EC?

http://rollitup.org/t/lets-get-dirty.937239/page-13#post-13805090

if you can take some time to look at my NPK slurry results in my journal and help me sort out how to adjust id really appreciate it

you don't have to read thru the journal as I know its time consuming, maybe just check out my last few posts

thank you
Click to expand...
They are the same thing actually. 0-0-50

Screen size is the factor in dissolving. I prefer lab grade or fine screened powdered product. I use it for my 10% and 6% liquid formula's.
I also use it in making a liquid mix of a variation on Mel Frank's old Potency increasing mix. It should be noted that Mel was doing 2x the Fe over the Mn sulfate. He was unknowingly (at the time) increasing CBD over THC production. It did increase both but, decrease his mix to 1:1 on those 2 parts or even maybe 10-20 % more Mn. I haven't done more then that due to the possible neg. reactions.

I clipped this from Rid's place as, it was easy to do and we've been debating the mix and concentrations there for a few weeks now.

"Mel Frank offers this micronutrient formula for high cannabinoid production: Fe-sulfate (5 mg/gal), Cu-sulfate (0.2 mg/gal), Mn-sulfate (2 mg/gal), Zn-sulfate (0.2 mg/gal), Boric acid (2 mg/gal), Molybdenic acid (0.1 mg/gal). Use 1 tspn/gal of nutrient solution, once monthly."

The Molybdenic is a limited purchase chemical. Restricted by US Gov.ATF/Homeland for it's use in making things that go boom. It's a bonding agent to K sulfate and other metal sulfates. I simply dropped it.
I have been doing a 1:1 Fe - Mn sulfate with it balanced. Same type of thing but with my 15 mg of Dark Brown Sugar as a bio stimulant for better uptake of the chem's.

Mixed this formula and reduced the Fe to 4 mg and increased the Mn to 4 mg, and am about to find out how that go's...


Notice that all these metals were in the sulfate form? S increases terp's ..... I have never hit the S tox wall either....Even with my use of Mg and K sulfate besides.


Rasta Roy said:
"

Potassium Magnesium Sulfate: Langbeinite






Langbeinite is a unique source of plant nutrition, since three essential nutrients combine naturally into one mineral. It provides a readily available supply of Potassium (K), Magnesium (Mg) and Sulfur (S) to growing plants.

Production

A distinctive geological material, langbeinite exists in only a few locations in the world. Commercial supplies of langbeinite come from underground mines near Carlsbad, N.M., which were first commercially developed in the 1930s. These deposits formed millions of years ago, when a variety of salts, including langbeinite, were left behind after the evaporation of ancient ocean beds. These salt deposits were buried deep beneath hundreds of meters of sediment. The langbeinite deposit is currently mined with large boring machines, washed to remove impurities and then crushed to various particle sizes. Langbeinite is considered a potash (or K-containing) fertilizer, even though it also contains valuable Mg and S. Traces of iron oxide impurities give some langbeinite particles a reddish tint.





Agricultural use

Nutrient-dense langbeinite is a popular fertilizer, especially where several nutrients are needed to provide adequate plant nutrition. Its advantage of having K, Mg and S all contained within each of its particles helps provide a uniform distribution of nutrients as farmers spread it through fields. Due to economics, agronomists don’t always recommend langbeinite to meet the entire K requirement of a crop. Instead, application rate may be based on the need for Mg, S, or both.

Langbeinite is water soluble, but dissolves slower than some other common K fertilizers because its particles are denser than other K sources. Therefore, it’s unsuitable for dissolving and applying through irrigation systems unless its finely ground. It has a neutral pH, and does not contribute to soil acidity or alkalinity. This differs from other common Mg sources such as dolomite, which will increase soil pH, and from elemental S or ammonium sulfate, which will lower the soil pH.
Click to expand...

The problem is in the quality of the Lagbeinite. It varies greatly across the brands. It's also not exactly Potassium Sulfate. It is also higher in S then K2SO4.

 
im4satori

im4satori

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
They are the same thing actually. 0-0-50

Screen size is the factor in dissolving. I prefer lab grade or fine screened powdered product. I use it for my 10% and 6% liquid formula's.
I also use it in making a liquid mix of a variation on Mel Frank's old Potency increasing mix. It should be noted that Mel was doing 2x the Fe over the Mn sulfate. He was unknowingly (at the time) increasing CBD over THC production. It did increase both but, decrease his mix to 1:1 on those 2 parts or even maybe 10-20 % more Mn. I haven't done more then that due to the possible neg. reactions.

I clipped this from Rid's place as, it was easy to do and we've been debating the mix and concentrations there for a few weeks now.

"Mel Frank offers this micronutrient formula for high cannabinoid production: Fe-sulfate (5 mg/gal), Cu-sulfate (0.2 mg/gal), Mn-sulfate (2 mg/gal), Zn-sulfate (0.2 mg/gal), Boric acid (2 mg/gal), Molybdenic acid (0.1 mg/gal). Use 1 tspn/gal of nutrient solution, once monthly."

The Molybdenic is a limited purchase chemical. Restricted by US Gov.ATF/Homeland for it's use in making things that go boom. It's a bonding agent to K sulfate and other metal sulfates. I simply dropped it.
I have been doing a 1:1 Fe - Mn sulfate with it balanced. Same type of thing but with my 15 mg of Dark Brown Sugar as a bio stimulant for better uptake of the chem's.

Mixed this formula and reduced the Fe to 4 mg and increased the Mn to 4 mg, and am about to find out how that go's...


Notice that all these metals were in the sulfate form? S increases terp's ..... I have never hit the S tox wall either....Even with my use of Mg and K sulfate besides.





The problem is in the quality of the Lagbeinite. It varies greatly across the brands. It's also not exactly Potassium Sulfate. It is also higher in S then K2SO4.
Click to expand...
that's a lot of Mn

I would also consider how that much Mn might affect your zinc uptake, as I understand it theres a balancing between them

the 5ppm iron wouldn't scare me nor would high amounts of sulfur
that's all they get down in florida is sulfur water so strong it smells like rotten eggs or iron water that turns the side walks orange and the farmers don't have any issues

I have noticed that high amounts of iron can reduce P uptake so you may find a need for a mild increased P in your mix

but that all relates to my hydro experience, I cant speak directly to soil



thanks for the help with sorting out the K...
 
im4satori

im4satori

Well-Known Member
@Dr. Who

in my hydro experiments I found the iron to be ideal at 2.5ppm

many of the liquid hydro nutes are lacking in iron and also high in P which can reduce iron uptake

when I ran my iron ppm to mimic what advanced nutes, general hydroponics, or technaflora runs there iron at (1 to 1.5ppm) the plants looked a pale green... whne I brought the iron up to 2.5ppm they got a real lush green and the nice gloss

they clearly liked the increased iron
 
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