Help!! pH won't stay down! wtf??

alright so im using the AG. im probably going to move them to a five gallon after their roots get too big. i have three purple X trainwreck feminized and properly germed in a paper towel.
i started with 2 ag small tabs and just a gallon of purified water.... they grew like crazy for a couple days whille the pH was around 5.7. but now they have stopped almost completely. The pH somehow creeps up to around 7, and then goes to 8 even!
so i tried adding some organic pH down with purified water. it worked for a day, but the next morning it was back around 7 again.
so i tried changing the water and wiping everywhere i could find that had slight algae buildup around the edges.
did this process twice, still same problem with pH creeping higher by the day.
so then i tried taking the baby plants out and putting half a bottle of 3% hydrogen pyroxide. mixed with the rest tap water and let it run for about 30 minutes.
added some liquid kharma and superthrive with a fresh gallon of publix brand purified water.
fixed the problem for like a day, and then back to effing 7 in the morning!

how do i fix this?? should i take the seedlings out adn run bleach through it? rubbing alcohol? im about to give up
i know some of u are going to say "ditch the ag," n i agree with you except i dont have room yet. so thats not an option

roorsmoker said:

so then i tried taking the baby plants out and putting half a bottle of 3% hydrogen pyroxide. mixed with the rest tap water and let it run for about 30 minutes.

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You're on the right track. But you need to get higher % hydrogen peroxide. I use 35% that I get from the local chemical supply store for $18.00 per US gal - no questions asked. I also get Hexane there to process hash...that's another topic.

fixed the problem for like a day, and then back to effing 7 in the morning!

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Cuz you slowed the pathogen problem down, but then they populated again and caused the pH to rise. I'm having the same problem because I can't get all the pathogens out of the e&f pots without killing the plants. I have tried running a very strong solution of H2O2 and H2O through the hydroton pellets. It gets much better for about 10 days, then it begins to rise more frequently. I am about 5 weeks from harvest so I'm gonna try and make it work, then clean the crap out of everything!

how do i fix this?? should i take the seedlings out adn run bleach through it? rubbing alcohol? im about to give up

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no no no. no bleach. bleach will kill everything living in the system, but it's bad for everything else, like the seals in the pumps, and the hoses. Too much oxidation power in bleach. Fill your nute tank about half way with H2O. Then mix 35% Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2) into your solution at a rate of 5ml per L of H2O. Run that through your system. Wipe every surface you can see that has buildup on it. Let it run for about 30 minutes. Then dump that solution, and refill with H2O and an H2O2 solution at 1.7ml per L of H2O. Repeat the H2O2 dose every 3-4 days to re-inoculate the system.

i know some of u are going to say "ditch the ag," n i agree with you except i dont have room yet. so thats not an option

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it'll work...just don't give up. Pathogen control is a primary key to hydroponic success.

i think im gonna try using florashield cuz i htink the pathogens are in the sponge mediums. anything to watch out for? ill repost tonite or tomorrow if it works!

roorsmoker said:

i think im gonna try using florashield cuz i htink the pathogens are in the sponge mediums. anything to watch out for? ill repost tonite or tomorrow if it works!

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Cool. Like I said in the PM, make that solution and run it over/through the sponges. Let it sit for a few, then run some more solution over, through the sponges. If the H2O2 finds anything organic in the sponge it will fizz and foam like it does when you put it on an open wound.

I would flush the sponges with pH water...just to make sure the H2O2 doesn't screw with your young babies!

roorsmoker said:

i think im gonna try using florashield cuz i htink the pathogens are in the sponge mediums. anything to watch out for? ill repost tonite or tomorrow if it works!

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OK But Flora Shield does not have any anti pathogenic properties.

Flora Shield Contains Non-Plantfood Ingredients:
Chitosan, Stearic Acid, Palmitic Acid

All it's gonna do is drop the pH a little.

Let me know what happens.

As plants use nutrients they will drive the PH up, its completely normal. Adding H2O2 to the water will RAISE the PH. You just need to get some PH down and add that to keep things in check, I have to add PH down to my res almost every day to keep it at 5.6-5.8. Plants grow fast and big.


Look at the roots of your plant. Are they white, yellow or brown or black? is there any smell to the roots? Smell like potatos? or nothing too much? Or horrid rotting nasty smelling?

You are using organic ph down and the H2O2 is breaking it down to oxygen!

NoDrama said:

As plants use nutrients they will drive the PH up, its completely normal. Adding H2O2 to the water will RAISE the PH. You just need to get some PH down and add that to keep things in check, I have to add PH down to my res almost every day to keep it at 5.6-5.8. Plants grow fast and big.

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I disagree. My veg closet (which is not infected with a pathogen at this time) will hold pH at 5.8 for several days after the nute change. I add 35% H2O2 every other day @ 1.7ml per L and it does not change the pH of my solution. If I take a pH reading immediately after adding the H2O2 then I get a false high reading, but after about 20 minutes that goes away as the H2O2 neutralizes into the solution. I get bomber growth and must move the floros up every day.

But then, after about 5 or 6 days, the pH will slowly begin to climb. I have to keep pushing it back down every day. At first it goes up .2 per day. Then .3, then .4...then it's time for a nute change. I figure the buffers in the nutes are breaking down and unable to compensate for my hard water. I am getting a hard water nute formula to compensate for the above lack of compensation. Are you lost now?

fitzyno1 said:

You are using organic ph down and the H2O2 is breaking it down to oxygen!

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Yes. If you are using an organic pH down then the H2O2 is attacking it.

Change pH down AND all nutes and additives to non-organic. OR...shit will grow in your tank and the pH will climb, causing nute lockout and killing your babies. I just can't make it work any other way. I am guessing that some people do, but I don't know any of them. I think it's because of my crappy water supply here. Spring fed tank directly to the faucet. No filtration or treatment whatsoever. Must be something living in that damn tank....

I have to hold my H2O, treat it with a large dose of H2O2 (35% H2O2 @ 5ml per L), and let it sit overnight so it kills off all the gobeldygook. Then I add my nutes, wait 2 hours for the pH buffers to kick in, finish adjusting the pH to 5.8 and add another dose of H2O2 @ 1.7ml per L. Then I wait another hour and begin the feeding cycle as usual until the next nute change.

I know my pots have pathogens in the roots, but the H2O2 is keeping it at bay for now. I have 5 weeks left and I am going to nurse it through until I can completely clean out every part of my system and sanitize the grow medium! I won't let the pathogen outbreak get out of control next time.

Its simple. the bigger your reservoir the less you have to muck with the PH. if you have a small res of water ( Like in the AG) you have to do PH control 1-2 times per day. Plants drive the PH up as they use the fertilizer, water evaporates, buffers in the water act up etc etc etc. just use PH down and everything should be ok. You can clean and H2O2 and use bleach all you want, but your PH is still going to go up.

NoDrama said:

Its simple. the bigger your reservoir the less you have to muck with the PH. if you have a small res of water ( Like in the AG) you have to do PH control 1-2 times per day. Plants drive the PH up as they use the fertilizer, water evaporates, buffers in the water act up etc etc etc. just use PH down and everything should be ok. You can clean and H2O2 and use bleach all you want, but your PH is still going to go up.

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Every piece of information Nodrama gives is fuckin legit. I started up my hydro system and knew before hand from reading his posts that my pH would always be increasing. It was no surprise to me. Everynight before bed I check and balance my pH. (oh and don't disturb you plants while they sleep, my day cycle is 9pm - 3pm, its weird but I keep strange hours =P)

NoDrama said:

Its simple. the bigger your reservoir the less you have to muck with the PH. if you have a small res of water ( Like in the AG) you have to do PH control 1-2 times per day. Plants drive the PH up as they use the fertilizer, water evaporates, buffers in the water act up etc etc etc. just use PH down and everything should be ok. You can clean and H2O2 and use bleach all you want, but your PH is still going to go up.

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I agree. Smaller res are hard to control AND pH always goes up for numerous reasons and must be pushed down. I have a 55 gal res that I fill 2/3...very easy to condition and maintain. My old single site bubble hydro thingy had about 2 1/2 gal res and was very hard to keep flat.