How Do I Get Started in Organics?

First let me give a little bit of background and the setup I will be using. I have one cfl grow under my belt of some bagseed that I got about a half an oz a plant off of and that was with some nute burn, high temps, and an early harvest. I have upgraded to a air cooled 600 watt hps in a 5'x5' tent with a 430 cfm fan with carbon fiter handling the air exchange. I have a Sensi Star fem and Magic Bud fem that I already have started under some cfls that I plan on taking clones from and grow sog style in the tent. I would like to grow organically in soil but I have no grow shops anywhere near me. I would like to get everything at Lowes, Walmart, or Home Depot if possible though I am willing to order some things online if I have to. Does anyone have any ideas or can point me to a thread I might find some answers in.

Check out the "Best of Skunk" Vol 2 Rev's growing issue.... it is chocker full of great shit... I am looking to start vermiculture...

There are a number of different ways you can grow organically. If you have any feed stores in your area, go check it out. They should have the blood/bone/alfalfa/cottonseed meals, most plant nurseries carry earthworm castings(EWC), dolomite limes, different guanos, kelp and seaweed extracts, its just a matter of looking around for the right products. I know some WalMarts in certain areas carry some good stuff, but none of mine have anything worth while. There was just a thread psted on a diy brewer, look into that, it is a great way to add beneficial organisms to your soil. Black-strap molasses is an excellent carb for the bene's. I prefer to feed my plants guano and kelp teas, but you can also side dress many ingredients. I already posted this recipe in another thread, but I'll do so again. It is a great way to get started with tried and proven methods. i didn't invent it, but have used it and can vouch for its validity.
Here are two very good organic soiless mixes...

LC's Mix is great for any stage of growth. You can germ seeds in it, grow mothers in it, root clones in it as well as veg and flower in it.

LC’s Soiless Mix #1:
5 parts Canadian Spaghnam Peat or Coir or Pro-Moss
3 parts perlite
2 parts wormcastings or mushroom compost or home made compost
Powdered (NOT PELLETIZED) dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.
...Wal-Mart now sells worm castings.

Or, if you use Pro Mix, Sunshine Mix or Fox Farm mixes...
LC's Soiless Mix #2:
6 parts Pro Mix BX or HP / Sunshine Mix (any flavor from #1 up) / Fox Farm Ocean Forest or Light Warrior
2 parts perlite
2 parts earthworm castings
Powdered (NOT PELLETIZED) dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.
If you use a 3 qt. saucepan as “parts” in the amounts given above, it equals about 1 cu. ft. of soiless mix and you can just dump in a cup of powdered dolomite lime.
But, a "part" can be anything from a tablespoon to a five gallon bucket. Just use the same item for all of the "parts".

Now for the plants organic food source

Choose one of these organic plant food recipes to add to LC's Soiless Mix.

RECIPE #1
If you want to use organic nutes like blood, bone and kelp...
Dry Ferts:
1 tablespoon blood meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
2 tablespoons bone meal per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
1-tablespoon kelp meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix or Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract as directed
(OPTIONAL) 1 tablespoon per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of Jersey Greensand to supplement the K (potasium) in the Kelp Meal and seaweed extract.
Mix all the dry ferts into the soiless mix well and wet it, but don't soak it with Liquid Karma and water @ 1 tbs./gal. Stir and mix it a few times a week for a week or two so the bacteria can get oxygen and break down the bone meal and make it available. And don't let the mix dry out, keep it moist and add water as needed. It'll also have time to get the humic acids in the Liquid Karma going and the dolomite lime will be better able to adjust the pH of a peat based mixture too.
With this recipe, all you need to do is add plain water until harvest.
When I'm working with seeds, I punch a hole in the bottom of 16 ounce cups and fill them with plain LC's Mix. Lightly wet the mix in the cups and germ one seed in each cup. At the same time I mix enough LC's mix along with the blood/bone/kelp to fill all the 3 gallon flower pots I'm going to use for the grow. After about two weeks, the seedlings and the blood/bone/kelp mix are ready. I transplant the seedlings into the 3 gallon pots and just add water until harvest.
When you go to flower and pull up the males, save the mix in the pots. It is ready to be used again immediately. Just remove the root ball and transplant another seedling into it.

RECIPE #2
If you want to use guano in your soil mix...
Bongaloid's Guano Mix.
Use all these items combined with one gallon of soil mix.
1/3C hi N Guano (Mexican Bat Guano)
1/2C hi P Guano (Jamaican or Indonesian Bat Guano)
1TBS Kelp Meal
(OPTIONAL) 1TBS Jersey Greensand

RECIPE #3 (My favorite)
If you want to use guano tea and kelp...

Guano Tea and Kelp:

Seedlings less than 1 month old nute tea mix-
Mix 1 cup earthworm castings into 5 gallons of water to make the tea.
Add 5 tbs. Black Strap Molasses.
Use it to water your seedlings with every 3rd watering.

Veg mix-
1/3 cup Peruvian Seabird Guano (PSG)
1/3 cup High N Bat Guano (Mexican)
1/3 cup Earth Worm Castings (EWC)
5 tsp. Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract
(That makes the "dry mix". You can make all you want and save it to use later.)
Mix with water @ 1 cup of dry mix into 5 gallons of water to make the tea.
To that 5 gallons of tea add:
5 tbs. Liquid Karma
5 tbs. Black Strap Molasses
Use it to water with every 3rd watering.

Flowering nute tea mix:
2/3 cup Peruvian Seabird Guano
2/3 cup Earth Worm Castings
2/3 cup High P Guano (Indonesian or Jamaican)
5 tsp. Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract
(That makes the "dry mix". You can make all you want and save it to use later.)
Mix with water @ 2 cups of dry mix into 5 gallons of water to make the tea.
To that 5 gallons of tea add:
5 tbs. Liquid Karma
5 tbs. Black Strap Molasses
Use it to water with EVERY watering.

You can use queen size knee high nylon stockings for tea bags. 3 pair for a dollar at the dollar store. Tell 'em you use them for paint strainers. Put the recommended tea in the stocking, tie a loop knot in it and hang it in your tea bucket. The tea should look like a mud puddle. Agitate the bag in the water vigorously. An aquarium pump and air stone will dissolve oxygen into the solution and keep the good bacteria (microherd) alive and thriving. Let it bubble a day or two before you use it. If you find you are making too much tea and having to throw it out, use 2 1/2 gallons of water and cut the nute amount by half.


RECIPE #4
Three Little Birds Method
40 gallons used soil
4 cups alfalfa meal
4 cups bone meal
4 cups kelp meal
4 cups powdered dolomite lime
30 pound bag of earthworm castings . . .
That’s the basic recipe . . .
However we also like to use
4 cups of Greensand
4 cups of Rock Phosphate
4 cups of diatomaceous earth


RECIPE #5
Fish and Seaweed (This is sooo easy)

For veg growth…
1 capful 5-1-1 Fish Emulsion
1 capful Neptune's Harvest 0-0-1 Seaweed or Maxicrop liquid
1 gallon H2O

For early flowering…
1 tbs. Neptune’s Harvest 2-3-1 Fish/Seaweed
1 gallon H2O

For mid to late flowering…
1 tbs. Neptune’s Harvest 2-4-1 Fish
1 gallon H2O

I actually have that issue and a lot of it seems pretty complicated for a first try at organics. I was looking for something a little more noobish. I am up to expand into TLO but I would like to run a cycle with some MG organic, bone meal and such to start and then move into the more microlife management stuff. I guess I want to try to make a super soil from stuff I can get at Lowes if possible and maybe some organic nutes I can order online if need be.

I may be able to use one of those recipes JH. Thanks. Is this gonna make the grow more complicated or more simple once the soil is made. Is it more plant it and forget it other than watering then synthetic growing?

Organics... IMHO, It doesn't give you any good yields, its too expensive,.. and its messy, and clogs up hydro equipment..

Been down that road.. Its a dead end.

Each to their own, i suppose.

I know the recipes call for a lot, but it is quite simple once you get going. I prefer the guano teas, but that means you have to brew up a batch of tea every time you water, which some people don't like to do. With the first nute recipe, you just add plain water the whole way through, which is quite simple, especially when your busy, and don't have time to play around with the other stuff. I really don't recommend using miracle grow, but in certain situations there is no other choice. I know people have been succesful with it, but I don't have any experience so I don't want to lead you in the wrong direction with that.

CLOSETGROWTH said:

Organics... IMHO, It doesn't give you any good yields, its too expensive,.. and its messy, and clogs up hydro equipment..

Been down that road.. Its a dead end.

Each to their own, i suppose.

Click to expand...

I was hydro before organic, and yes, the rate of growth and yield are cut, but the final product is so much better, the taste and quality. If you are growing for quick turn around, then organics probably isn't for you. But if you just want a high quality smoke, I'd do it. also, if you sell your extra meds to the collectives, they pay a bit more for the organically grown herb. I wuld have to disagree with you on cost. I spent much more money on the bottled nutes in hydro, then I ever have for the dry organic nutes. And a little goes a long way. As with hydro, no, I don't recommend going organically. I don't even know how you could grow organically in hydro, as hydro itself is not organic. You need the soil, and all the good stuff that comes with it.

Im not really intrested in hydro and I am starting a small garden outside so i figure I can mix up some soil to use for it too. I was checking Lowes online and they have the peat moss, blood meal and bone meal so I think I can get everything locally for the most part.

GreenDragon77 said:

Im not really intrested in hydro and I am starting a small garden outside so i figure I can mix up some soil to use for it too. I was checking Lowes online and they have the peat moss, blood meal and bone meal so I think I can get everything locally for the most part.

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I recommend calling ahead to make sure. If they don't have it in store, they could always have it shipped to the store, most the time for free, but if they are asses, they might try to charge you. But lowes has some good stuff. Just trying to save you a trip.

Already thought that and they dont have it in store but will order it for free. I think that is the recipe I am gonna try. It looks easy and I need things easy being it is only my second grow and first one with good genetics.

Glad to hear that man. Since switching over, I am even more addicted to growing, it seems all I ever think about are different things I could use, or different ways of mixing them. Good luck with your next grow, you should notice the quality difference right away, nice stinky nugs. It's what I live for.

they dont have it in store but said they would order it for free. I think I can make this work. I am stoked to try this and see how well it works. I used potting soil and MG liquid nutes on my first grow. I have much better equipment and more knowledge this go around plus good genetics.

Use the LC mix and pick a recipe. Follow it EXACTLY if you are new to growing. it will work.

When you get some experience you can start to improvise or experiment. The base LC mix (1 or 2) is great for starting seedlings, after that is up to you to feed them accordingly.

And forget what some of these guys say about yield, the quality is top notch.

And too expensive? LOL

Maybe growing hydro in your toliet doesn't require much of an investment but any normal sized set up does. I can make a cubic foot soil mix for less then 8 dollars with LC's mix and Espoma biotone plus. I then just add whatever is needed during the grow which is mainly an EWC slurry with a little molasses and kelp powder thrown in. And I yeild 2 oz's + a plant in 3 allon pots with a 250hps, more then enough for me. That cubic foot of soil easily fills four 3 gallon pots.

If you aren't growing on a large scale then screw Hydro, either organic hydro or not......

plaguedog said:

Use the LC mix and pick a recipe. Follow it EXACTLY if you are new to growing. it will work.

When you get some experience you can start to improvise or experiment. The base LC mix (1 or 2) is great for starting seedlings, after that is up to you to feed them accordingly.

And forget what some of these guys say about yield, the quality is top notch.

And too expensive? LOL

Maybe growing hydro in your toliet doesn't require much of an investment but any normal sized set up does. I can make a cubic foot soil mix for less then 8 dollars with LC's mix and Espoma biotone plus. I then just add whatever is needed during the grow which is mainly an EWC slurry with a little molasses and kelp powder thrown in. And I yeild 2 oz's + a plant in 3 allon pots with a 250hps, more then enough for me. That cubic foot of soil easily fills four 3 gallon pots.

If you aren't growing on a large scale then screw Hydro, either organic hydro or not......

Click to expand...

Quite right!

I do the LC's mix also. I have my own worm bins, but even still ..... Good stuff !

Wet

You can also just plant a seed in some nice compost and watch it grow, but as stated above organics is a very colourful beast.

You will reap what you sow, and enjoy life as you have helped others to enjoy theirs. This applies to plants as well I think and as an adherent to at least an abstract and naturalistic branch of the philosophy of Karma, I believe organics are the only way to go

You can give a kid white bread and he'll grow big and strong but what he really needs is brown to get the ladies with a college degree and no syphilis.

What does the 'HP' stand for from this?

LC's Soiless Mix #2:
6 parts Pro Mix BX or HP / Sunshine Mix (any flavor from #1 up) / Fox Farm Ocean Forest or Light Warrior

hey guys, been growing for several years, and thinking about doing my first organic grow. just a couple questions. i've been debating how to do it. not sure which method would be best for my first one. would i be better to get something like general organics line of nutes or something like that, or do something like the recipes mentioned earlier. i like recipe #1 where you only water. when it says to wet the mix with water/liquid karma but dont soak it, how wet are we talkin? is the whole medium supposed to be wet? or just a very little water?
and a ? about water. it needs to be RO or distilled doesn't it? sorry to jack this thread, i like the recipes on here and though you might be the guys to ask. thanks.

Evenly moist. IDK, it's a feel thing, but when I do 2CuFt in the wheelbarrow (~15 gallons of mix), it takes ~2 1/2 gallons to get it 'just right' wet.

IMO, RO and distilled is about the worst water you can use, in soil and especially organics. They are both dead waters and good for hydro, but not a 'living' soil.

I do the amended soil. Bottled nutes are just too expensive and don't contain anything that the amendments don't have. All you need to do is read the list of ingredients on the bottles. I do use more amendments than in the basic recipe, but nothing really esoteric or expensive. LOL

Wet

hey thanks for the reply. so what do you do about water?