how long can I run a strain before buying new beans?

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10mm fan boy

Well-Known Member
So say I want to keep my AK47 for a while, how long can I run them before I have to get new beans and start all over?
In a book I read George Cervantes said to always start new beans every year.:cry:
Is this true?
thanks,
10
 
H

highwayman

Well-Known Member
well you shounld get a male and female and make seeds that way you will always have seeds of your AK.. and every yeah do a seed crop so you will always have a fresh supply of seed..
 
Brick Top

Brick Top

New Member
If you mean you want to keep mother plants and grow from clones I have read about and head about people who have kept the same mother plant or plants for MANY years and still grew very high quality herb from their clones.

If you mean always growing from beans for each grow some people believe beans will not remain viable and those that do germinate will not retain their original vigor so some people do not like to keep beans for long and will replace them if they hold onto them for more than a certain period of time even if kept in a well sealed container in a well sealed bag or pack in a refrigerator.

I guess it depends on what you meant and how you will be growing and how picky or concerned you are about things.
 
1

10mm fan boy

Well-Known Member
I meant how long I can keep taking clones off my mother plant, or clones of a clone of my mother plant, etc.
I don't want to buy the same beans any time soon.
Next purchase I want to get dif strains and keep my AK going for a while.
thanks,
10
 
mindphuk

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
10mm fan boy said:
I meant how long I can keep taking clones off my mother plant, or clones of a clone of my mother plant, etc.
I don't want to buy the same beans any time soon.
Next purchase I want to get dif strains and keep my AK going for a while.
thanks,
10
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There is no limit to how long you can take clones. Some clone only strains are decades old. That's the definition of clone, genetically identical. Your clones will be the same 20 years from now as they right now.
 
T

tokinman

Well-Known Member
from what i know you can keep taking clones off the original mother infinitely (as long as she stays healthy). if you were to take clones off the mother, grow those, clone off of the new plants, get another mother etc the strain will get weak over time. again using the same mother is np as long as you keep her healthy could have the same mother for 5-10 years..
 
1

10mm fan boy

Well-Known Member
tokinman said:
from what i know you can keep taking clones off the original mother infinitely (as long as she stays healthy). if you were to take clones off the mother, grow those, clone off of the new plants, get another mother etc the strain will get weak over time. again using the same mother is np as long as you keep her healthy could have the same mother for 5-10 years..
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That makes sense, but my next Q is why then do people always seem to grow new mothers all the time?
Is it because they cut them down soo much it puts stress on the plant?
I have read some will grow a new mother every 4 passes of cuttings.
My mother is in a water farm bucket and she it big. I would like to keep her around as long as the genetics don't break down.
thanks,
10
 
mindphuk

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
10mm fan boy said:
That makes sense, but my next Q is why then do people always seem to grow new mothers all the time?
Is it because they cut them down soo much it puts stress on the plant?
I have read some will grow a new mother every 4 passes of cuttings.
My mother is in a water farm bucket and she it big. I would like to keep her around as long as the genetics don't break down.
thanks,
10
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They aren't replacing the genetics, just the plant. Individual plants age and get stress, root problems, etc.
All people are doing is replacing their mother with a cutting, more likely than not because they can, not because they have to. Maybe their mum is getting too big and therefore starts over to get a more managable plant. There's no harm in doing it just as there's no harm in keeping the same mother around for years as long as she is tolerating the harvesting of cuttings okay.

Genetics don't break down except by mutation and there's nothing we can do about that.
 
BCtrippin

BCtrippin

Well-Known Member
tokinman said:
from what i know you can keep taking clones off the original mother infinitely (as long as she stays healthy). if you were to take clones off the mother, grow those, clone off of the new plants, get another mother etc the strain will get weak over time. again using the same mother is np as long as you keep her healthy could have the same mother for 5-10 years..
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Do you not understand the definition of a clone?

When you take clones off a mother, then use those cuttings to make a new mother they are literally the EXACT same genetics. Theres no break down from cloning.

If there was genetic breakdown strictly though cloning Purple Kush and the many other clone only strains would be the shittiest weed around by now, but its not, its been clone only forever and its still one of the highest quality strains.

Now that being said, there are other ways a plant can break down over time and generations. If you stress a mother plant, or after a while the plant just isnt as healthy, then the clones may take on some of that stress. But Marijuana is Extremely resilient so usually you wont notice a difference.

A strain will process light and nutrients the exact same whether its a plant you have now, or a clone of that plant 20 generations later.


:peace:
 
Brick Top

Brick Top

New Member
10mm fan boy said:
I meant how long I can keep taking clones off my mother plant, or clones of a clone of my mother plant, etc.

10
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As I said I have know of and read about and heard of people keeping mother plants for MANY years and taking clones and still growing high quality herb so as long as you take care of mom you can keep using her. On another herb site I used to be a member of there was another member who claimed, and I always stress the word claimed does any of us really know how factual anyone else is being about certain things, but they claimed that many years earlier they had taken a trip to Thailand and smoked some killer landrace sativa that they did not even know the name of but they managed to get a number of seeds and brought them home and had kept a few mother plants and that the mother plants were over 10-years old at that point and the clones were still producing the same high quality mystery strain herb.

I have read where some people claim that when they have grown from clones taken from clones taken from clones etc. they had had diminishing results. I do not know of any valid reason why that would happen and tend to think if they at some point had some diminishing results it was due to some other reason that they were unaware of and they wrongly blamed in on their pants being clones of clones of clones etc. But maybe in that case there is something involved that I do not know about and taking clones from clones repeatedly can result in an eventual diminishing return.
 
T

tokinman

Well-Known Member
where i have read the break down is would be in this situation. you have a plant and take say 10 clones.. grow em etc.. find the best looking clone out of those 10 and take clones off of that.. grow those out, take clones off of those. that is where you lose potency etc.. because you are no longer taking clones off of a single mother. you are taking a clone, off of a clone, off of a clone and so on. the same mother you can take clones off of for a million years if you can keep her alive that long.. i know you can take clones off of clones also.. i just read after the 4th time or (taking a clone off a clone off a clone..) so shit starts getting really sketchy. i believe the article i read that in was by ed (cant remember last name.. writes for cannabis culture all the time). i could be wrong. i don't clone. i don't grow pot.. i just do a lot of freakin reading.. i must argue though, there is no such thing as a clone only strain.. there are always seeds.. where do you think the clones came from.. they just don't appear. clone only means they arent selling you the seeds and are only selling clones.. if they were to sell seeds all you would need is a non fem 10 pack and you would have thousands of viable seeds. much easier for them to horde their genetics through a 'clone only' plant.
 
natrone23

natrone23

Well-Known Member
tokinman said:
where i have read the break down is would be in this situation. you have a plant and take say 10 clones.. grow em etc.. find the best looking clone out of those 10 and take clones off of that.. grow those out, take clones off of those. that is where you lose potency etc.. because you are no longer taking clones off of a single mother. you are taking a clone, off of a clone, off of a clone and so on. the same mother you can take clones off of for a million years if you can keep her alive that long.. i know you can take clones off of clones also.. i just read after the 4th time or (taking a clone off a clone off a clone..) so shit starts getting really sketchy. i believe the article i read that in was by ed (cant remember last name.. writes for cannabis culture all the time). i could be wrong. i don't clone. i don't grow pot.. i just do a lot of freakin reading.. i must argue though, there is no such thing as a clone only strain.. there are always seeds.. where do you think the clones came from.. they just don't appear. clone only means they arent selling you the seeds and are only selling clones.. if they were to sell seeds all you would need is a non fem 10 pack and you would have thousands of viable seeds. much easier for them to horde their genetics through a 'clone only' plant.
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LOL this guy has no idea what he is talking about :wall::wall: Listen to Mindfuc I don't feel like repeating what he he said. I personally don't keep a mother plant because i don't have the room, so I have been taking clones from clones...ect, who knows how many generations I'm on to now
 
BCtrippin

BCtrippin

Well-Known Member
fdd2blk said:
jorge is a tool.
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Couldn't have said it any better myself. :clap:


10mm fan boy said:
Don't know anything about the man, himself.
Just bought his book when I first started out.
It got me this far.
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He got you just far enough that you needed to come here to get some Real advice...:lol:


tokinman said:
where i have read the break down is would be in this situation. you have a plant and take say 10 clones.. grow em etc.. find the best looking clone out of those 10 and take clones off of that.. grow those out, take clones off of those. that is where you lose potency etc.. because you are no longer taking clones off of a single mother. you are taking a clone, off of a clone, off of a clone and so on. the same mother you can take clones off of for a million years if you can keep her alive that long.. i know you can take clones off of clones also.. i just read after the 4th time or (taking a clone off a clone off a clone..) so shit starts getting really sketchy. i believe the article i read that in was by ed (cant remember last name.. writes for cannabis culture all the time). i could be wrong. i don't clone. i don't grow pot.. i just do a lot of freakin reading.. i must argue though, there is no such thing as a clone only strain.. there are always seeds.. where do you think the clones came from.. they just don't appear. clone only means they arent selling you the seeds and are only selling clones.. if they were to sell seeds all you would need is a non fem 10 pack and you would have thousands of viable seeds. much easier for them to horde their genetics through a 'clone only' plant.
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Errrr.....you might want to do a little more research buddy. First off clones do not break down strictly through cloning, or they wouldnt be clones. There are other factors that can cause a plant to break down, those same factors can actually make a plant stronger and more resilient over generations.

As far as clone only strains. There are plenty of clone only strains out there. Clone only does Not mean that they are hoarding seeds. It means that the parents have long since died off, or that certain genetic traits will not pass on through Every seed.

Basically a clone only strain is ONLY genetically stable as clones, once you start trying to make seeds you dont end up with the same plant.

Heres a Massive list of the Clone Only strains that you dont think exist.
http://cannabis.wikia.com/wiki/Elite(Clone_Only)_Strains


:peace:
 
mindphuk

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
natrone23 said:
LOL this guy has no idea what he is talking about :wall::wall: Listen to Mindfuc I don't feel like repeating what he he said. I personally don't keep a mother plant because i don't have the room, so I have been taking clones from clones...ect, who knows how many generations I'm on to now
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He's not listening. Someone gave him some bad information. Ed Rosenthal would not have said anything about degeneration of the genome by taking clones from clones.

Okay fan boy, here it is one more time. If I take a recording of a tape (2nd gen), and then copy that, then copy that, etc. for many generations, I will get degradation because everytime I copy it, I'm introducing small variables and lose information and gain noise. That's the analog world.
If I take a digital file, oh, let's say a file of a Beatles song or a DVD of a popular movie. If I copy that, the copy will be the same, bit for bit as the original. That's why the RIAA and MPAA are so up-in-arms with illegal file sharing, the copies that are distributed and re-copied and re-distributed are identical in every way to the original, making it in essence, the exact same thing as the original.

This is the same with cloning. Think of the DNA of the plant the computer code. The clone will have the exact same characteristics as the mother plant, the same growth habit, disease resistance, fruit shape, flower color and yield potential. There will be no best clone out of the bunch genetically, that will be like asking me to pick the best of the copied DVD, it doesn't matter, they are all the same. The only variance will be how it is raised.

It is this reason that you might want to eventually replace a mother plant, because of stress or disease but it won't be because genetics have changed.
 
Brick Top

Brick Top

New Member
natrone23 said:
LOL this guy has no idea what he is talking about
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I cannot swear that he is correct but I have read the very same thing.

What I read claimed that by taking clones of clones of clones etc. can over time cause a recessive gene or genes to emerge which means you would then be growing a genetically different plant which would not be something that would happen if always cloning from mother plants.

Why that may possibly happen I do not know and I cannot swear that it is accurate but I do know I have read it can happen.

 
BCtrippin

BCtrippin

Well-Known Member
Brick Top said:
I cannot swear that he is correct but I have read the very same thing.

What I read claimed that by taking clones of clones of clones etc. can over time cause a recessive gene or genes to emerge which means you would then be growing a genetically different plant which would not be something that would happen if always cloning from mother plants.

Why that may possibly happen I do not know and I cannot swear that it is accurate but I do know I have read it can happen.

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Well where did you read it? I read that Obama was a secret muslim on CNN but I know that isnt true.... :lol:

The Sky is in Fact Pink.


There, now you just read that the sky is pink, we all know thats not true.

If anything its Bad genetics. Lets say you started out with bagseed, maybe that bagseed got pollinated from a Hermie. That hermie gene is always there, over time an unstable strain, or a strain with weak genetics will show more problems then if you started with some solid genetics.

Lets say you were going to clone a sheep. Are you gong to clone the one thats Perfect that never had a misscarage or has ever been sick, Or are you going to clone a sheep that had problems, had a few misscarages, and gets sick once in a while?


:peace:
 
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