Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
"The government is the problem! Vote for me to be in charge of the government!"
Baffles me how people buy that
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- Thread starter Justin-case
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Baffles me how people buy that
_gresh_
Well-Known Member
Vote Bernie 2020!
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Bernie doesn't claim the government is the problem though
_gresh_
Well-Known Member
But, isn't it?
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Another trope is "a rising tide floats all boats". Absolutely proven false but still a guiding light for the right.
I've never understood why they hew to falsehoods like this. All I can do is understand that conservatives are this way.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
I suppose it depends on what you're asking
Bugeye
Well-Known Member
The water in the swamp is rising.
_gresh_
Well-Known Member
Well, you're arguing that government is not the problem. Is it the problem? Is that not why Bernie is running?
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Do you think you really understand it if you don't understand why?
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
I don't see Bernie's policies including massive cuts to spending while raising taxes. If anything, Bernie is very idealistic about government-run programs being an answer. His education policies, for instance would stretch our college system to the breaking point with more people immediately getting access to higher ed rather than fewer, which is what Trump's boys are pushing. I don't see that as a bad thing but a challenge that might create some problems early on.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
I don't think I'm arguing that government is not the problem. I think that with government, many new problems are created. I think I feel that the benefits of having a government outweigh the risks of not having one. Having a stable government enables things like medical and scientific advancement. The protection of private property. The prosperity of poor and middle classes, etc.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
A set of facts that I can comprehend led me to a problem I don't understand. I understand everything that led me to my conclusion. I don't understand the underlying reason. Maybe you can suggest a different word for it.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Is this an assumption or based on evidence?
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Huh?
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
We saw this happen in Oregon when we eliminated tuition for recent HS grads who attend jr college. The schools are packed and the system was stretched to cover the additional students. Over time the problem has lessened.
Same happened when the ACA expanded medical access. Hospitals weren't immediately ready for the increased numbers. It didn't matter that this was paid for, the expansion in infrastructure took time.
The logic is pretty obvious. Adding a free or subsidized benefit increases use. If you don't phase it in, the system can't handle the load.
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Fogdog
Well-Known Member
LOL You must know by now how bad I am at explaining things.
I don't know how else to say it. I can understand that conservatives believe in smaller government. I don't understand why they believe this. Put another way, I just know they do believe that government is the problem. I've read behavioral studies and tried to understand but I don't understand how anybody can reject the facts and go with a belief like this.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
He's been a good Senator for Vermont.
greg nr
Well-Known Member
A good senator from vermont doesn't make a president. It doesn't even make a successful candidate for president.
There are MUCH better choices for 2020. He is history; leave him there.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
I'm all for as many good people running as possible. Let voters decide. I understand your point, I'm just saying we need more choices and I see no reason why Bernie shouldn't be one of them. He also has changed his tune of late too.
Listening to him lately, he's much more moderate than he was in 2016, when he was a relative unknown. Perhaps too moderate now for my liking. At 75, he's campaigning like he's still in the thick of a race, as is his right. I don't know if he's planning on running in 2020 but he's acting as if he's running. If others want to challenge for front runner status, they had better be ready to get going after the 2018 elections are done. His strategy is sound, too. I don't like what he's been saying about social issues lately but I see a shrewd politician in Bernie.