Hydroponic/Aeroponic Scrog Setup Help

Hello Everyone, I have been frequenting the rollitup forums for awhile now and recently created an account in case i needed some feedback from others with experience. That time seems to be now.

Ive attached a diagram on what i would like my current setup to look like. The main idea is that the 50gal tote holds the nutrient solution, pump w/filter bag attached to pvc sprayer setup, and air-stone. The 50gal tote lid was cut out in the middle and about 4/5 of the lid is extended upwards for extra root space for the plants, i call this extension in the diagram the netpot box. I plan to reinforce the netpot box onto the lid, and then plan to reinforce the sides of the lid with slotted metal bars, this will keep the lid sturdy for when i need to check inside the reservoir. From there i build on to the slotted metal to create a frame 2ft high, or a foot higher then the netpot box extension, with a bar on the front and back sides of the tote that would create a 40in by 40in space for the vinyl fencing.



The first thing you are wondering is, what about emptying the reservoir? I have noticed that my set-up is a very closed system. Currently my designs have plans for a plastic flap that grants enough space to get inside my reservoir and syphon the nute solution out, I also have the ability to take the lid off the tote, but it would be risky and time consuming; while im syphoning nutes, i could be prepping new solution, imo. I wanted feedback on this, any suggestions would be great. Remember im restricted with height so stacking totes is out of question.

Also, I would like to know if i would have issues with my rootsystems with this kind of setup. Depending on how much i fill up my reservoir, i could possibly get a foot and a half of length that the roots could grow down to before it would touch the nute solution. Would it be bad if the roots started to grow in the solution? Is it alright as long as its aerated, and is there risks?

The last question that is equally important is how many plants i should run with this design. The scrog screen would be basically a meter by a meter. I was originally thinking that i would want 6, because im obviously trying to get as big of a yield as possible with the design, but ive been doing some reading and im now considering running less, more like 4 i think, then i see people running 2 plant scrogs in the same space and wonder if 4 is still overkill. What do you all think 6 or 4?

Thanks again in advance everyone, just waiting for some feedback to start working on my project

syphon the nutes lol thats one way or change your res to a 25 gal then get another res thats bigger ( 30 gal ) and get 1 water pump in each of them and if your intelligent with timers you can make it work, imo dealing with 50 gal of water i would change it weekely while vegging and every few days in flower . have the timers go off every 4 hours or so rotating the water through the system giving the roots fresh nutes constantly and always check your ph levels keep it around 6.2 and your good , hope that helped a little.

thank you for your feedback bongilishes. My brother had suggested the duel pump technique as well, and it made me wonder about what the water pump would go through. im naive about water pumps, so i have no idea if they can run dry. Because if not, i would still have to siphon the left over solution in the end anyway. And if they can run dry, i could just create another pvc setup and switch the water pump over to that setup to move the solution to another container. Maybe Ill do some research, i wanted to get ecoplus eco 396 gph submersible pump ( http://www.4hydroponics.com/hydroponics/pumps2.asp?ItemNo=eco396 ) I have figured out that it would work well for my setup and isnt that costly or anything.

I have very little experience with DIY hydro and am by no means an expert.
With that being said, couldn't you drill a drain towards the very bottom of your res (maybe 1 inch), attach a little piece of pvc and put a ball valve at the end of the pvc (on the outside of the res, obviously)? Then when it's time for a res change, attach a hose to the ball valve, give the ball valve a twist and use a pump at the other side of the hose.
Just an idea, there is probably an easier way.

i could install a pvc valve through the bottom of my res, i would just need to be able to tilt it when needed. ive been researching and it seems others have had this dilemma themselves, and many seem to use an electrical pump or a simple system like a bilge pump,the latter which is likely what im going to use at this point, feeling better about having to siphon seeing that others have had to do the same.

ty for your feedback blunt master flex, now im really wondering about the rootsystems and if im going to have a problem with it growing into my res solution. If i understand correctly, dwc systems have the plant roots submerged in solution with an airstone to oxygenate the rootsystem correct? I dont know what my system would be exactly, it would spray in the res and fall back down to be reused in the same closed system. Im just wondering if roots are allowed to set in semi-nonmoving nute solution i guess, and what risks and precautions to take.

Its early so hopefully none of this sounds like rambling

Roots growing in the res solution is known as deep water culture. With plenty of oxygen bubbles, your roots will thrive.

I think the number of plants would be better determined if I knew what kind of light you were going to run along with type of air exchange method. Also, what strain?

Nice little diagram, btw.

A problem I'd imagine is roots clogging drains.
You are correct about DWC and how it works, the risk of having your roots in water all the time is that the plants then are very susceptible to root disease.
Here's a link to fighting root slime, it's a good one.
I forgot to post the link haha! https://www.rollitup.org/dwc-bubbleponics/361430-dwc-root-slime-cure-aka.html

most people either go aero (sprayer) or dwc (bubbles).. so I think what your saying is that you want both in your setup? if this is true mayb put your reasoning in. IMO you should do either or and save yourself some trouble/money. Mayb I'm just not understanding the net box completely are your 2-4 girls going in there and rooting in the res?

As far as scrog (fence your putting above it) you dont need many plants. it really has to do with how long you want to veg for to fill up the screen before you flip it to 12/12.. 2 plants need to veg a little longer till 75% is filled up then flip the lights. but with 4 your gonna run into over crowding for sure. I would say 3 max, and the screen will help you tie down your ladies to one height so you dont need to worry about height restrictions so good call with that. Mayb shed some light on those questions above and I can help further.

if you want your roots sitting in the rez solution you need to oxygenate it with the bubbles or they will surely drown. But if the water has oxygen and your res is light proof you shouldnt have trouble with algae

Good luck tho looks like your off to a nice start

lordjin, i was thinking a 600 watt digital ballast. i will be grabbing up hps bulbs and possibly an mh bulb for veg but im still thinking about it. ill most likely also supply supplemental lighting thru cfls or flouros. Im planning on building a small room to contain everything and currently got plenty of ducting available (25 ft of 6inch ducting) and i grabbed up an in-line fan from menards and i got someone helping me with the electrical work involved with that because it was only the fan, no power cord or whatnot. I dont have the fan at the moment but im pretty sure it pushes 250cf, and the area i would build would be around 7/8ft high, 4ft long, 5/6ft wide, approx. Im also not sure on the strain just yet, thats something i will be figuring out in a week or two, as i plan on getting it locally. Some clones that float around the area seem to be blue cheese, ak47, afghan kush, og kush, sour diesel, and online ive seen a few others that seem promising, but who knows.

Blunt Master Flex, I will check out the resources you have provided

and John Jacob, The net pot box would sit approx 6inches above the res lid, the res is 18 inches deep. I originally wanted to be able to completely saturate my plants roots with sprayers, but i could dwc from what im understanding, then i wouldnt even need to construct a netpot box, i could just build it into my lid because i wouldnt have to worry about my roots if i keep them aerated enough. If thats the case would i even need a water pump? i havent bought one yet so im wondering. Wouldnt i just need to have a stronger (or more) airpump/s? I would rather not have my plants roots sit in water for some reason, especially if there is still a risk in doing so, so i could have sprayers as my main setup for solution distribution, and then IF the roots grow in the res, that could just be supplemental? If anything, I always had planned on running an airstone in my setup. Im going to grab up black 6mm plastic for algae issues, think its good enough? I was planning on possibly grabbing up panda plastic, dont know if i would waste it on my res though, quite expensive, idk.

thank you everyone for your feedback, and i hope i have been able to provide you with some more information.

Ah visio this helps, I see what your doing with that netbox now. Yea you wouldnt even need it if you dwc'd. In which case you definitely need an air pump but not a water pump. This will make things much simplier for you, trust me. But be aware idk if you've ever thrown a couple seeds in some dirt before but hydro is less forgiving so when you want to make a move such as add nutes or w.e do it progressively and observe how your girls react to it. If you really mess up you'll known within an hour or so.. In my younger days within 30 min I'd come back to a wilting little lady followed by a war cry to the sky NOOOOO!!!

Anyway back to the setup a 600watt will do you nicely but again dont concentrate on how many you can squeeze in there if your scrogging you wanna focus more on how long its going to take to fill up 75% of that screen. Most times less is more in the end, also if theyre too close you can run into Mold on your buds which defeats the whole pupose and back to square one.

So if you decided to dwc, then here's a couple of tips blackout your container (black plastic should work, but remember black absorbs light so mayb a layer of black then some reflective on top like aluminum tape), the more bubbles the better (also water temp cooler around mid 60's helps the water stay more oxygenated), no need for a sprayer in dwc the bubbles poppin on the surface will create enough spray and humidity for some nice root growth which will then grow into your rez under the water surface (dont be afraid if you got the bubbles you'll be fine). Usually you keep the bottom tip of your girl just above the water line this also makes root growth much faster and "aerate" the appropriate roots where they need "aeration"

If you wanna go with the sprayer they also work nicely its basically take the bubble popping on the surface thing but makes it extreme and makes the humidity a 100% inside the container. Others can probably give you a better understanding of the aero gardens but IMO your initial root growth will be faster with the sprayers but I think overall dwc is faster growth all around and you'll fill that screen up in no time..

keep the questions comin homie

If I were you, with a setup as you describe, I would go with two large plants... four at the most. But no more than four.

thank you both for shedding more light on the subject.

even though i would have to grab up a water pump, i think i still might want to try a hybrid setup, unless there seems to be any extreme reason not to try it, so far the only thing that makes me worry is what John Jacob said about 100% humidity.

And about plant count, lordjin you said you would go with 2 plants? John Jacob suggested 3. I personally would like to go with 4, but it really depends on the answer to my next question, which is: could i produce an equal or greater yield with 2-3 plants compaired to 4? Or would i be sticking to 2-3 plants only because of space concerns or mold prevention? The thing is that im currently working on this for my brother for the both of us, and we are setting his area up for now due to personal concerns. I dont know if i could convince him to go down to 2-3 plants unless they would provide a higher yield compared to 4 based on multiple factors. If i can get away with 4, i would love to try, ya know?

thanks again for all the help Just need a couple more answers and then i can finish this up.

maybe what I said didnt make sense.. its very possible, this is a ganja forum and sure enough puff..puff..reply.. haha By 100% humidity I meant that inside your closed container which is great for root growth I was just trying to explain how sprays work similar to dwc which is why you dont need both, but F it man you gotta try it to see what works for you, having both isnt going to "hurt" your girls just make it a little more complicated of a setup which potentially could lead to more issues. But do it up! Im all about innovation!

On the number of plants.. go with 4 worse comes to worse if you lose one f*ck it your 3 will make up for that one with the extra space. You'll realize after a full cycle or two how many you can fit for your particular setup for max yield besides much easier to take one out if they over crowd then getting to the end and saying Where's all the Bud?!

What you have to consider is that more plants don't necessarily mean more bud. In fact in certain compact situations where plants don't have much space, a greater number of plants might even result in a smaller yield.

When I was first starting out, I had it in my head that more plants would just equal more bud. Not so with my compact 8 square foot cab. When I tried a greater number, it wasn't as if the plants said "hey, there are more of us, so we better not grow too big." Oh no, each one will grow as big as it can, trying to hog all the light, and a great big, difficult to manage, overcrowded jungle is what you will have. Sometimes it's better to maximize a small space by growing fewer plants to a larger size. That's why I only work with two plants at a time in my cab. My past grows showed me that two (grown out to a monster size) is the best way to use my cab space.

John Jacob said:

IMO your initial root growth will be faster with the sprayers but I think overall dwc is faster growth all around and you'll fill that screen up in no time..

keep the questions comin homie

Click to expand...

I know you stated this is your opinion but this isn't a matter of opinion, low pressure aero or nft will have faster growth all around not just after rooting. I have run both side by side, and have seen many other growers do the same thing and everytime the same conclusion comes up: nft is faster than dwc. With that being said I really like your design. I believe one of the huge beneffits of this system is it is not going to fail on you. Pumps go out a lot, and that is one of the biggest reasons why hydro fails but your system would utilize two separate pumps. If the water pump fails then there are no roots being sprayed but you still have the dwc in the bottom keeping it alive. If the air pump running your air stones in the bottom of the res fails then you still have the sprayer heads aerating the resevoir from the drops hitting the surface, and that would add enough DO in the res to keep from drowning your roots.
About the number of plants, with the proper veg time for each different set up, you will yeild the same no matter what the number but heres the catch; you need all the plants to be given the same light intensity and the same space to grow. You want the plant spacing to all be the same so I think an even number would make that easier.