Hydroton Cleaning and Preparation Question

Neumann

Neumann

Active Member
The basic argument about hydroton is regarding the cation exchange capacity of clay and whether high temperature firing stops the process or if dry hydroton retains its cation exchange capacity and if exposed over time to atmospheric oxygen can actually increase.

Simple suggestion is to test your hydroton. Put some in a pH'ed water and test it without nutrients. If it rises, soak it, if it doesn't rise, then that's not your problem and you need to look elsewhere.
 
H

Hobgoblit

Active Member
I am running 5.5 distilled water through the hydroton right now and it continues to rise. Next, I'll try boiling it. Lucas is wrong about it being the water, BTW...
 
legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
Hobgoblit said:
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/hydro/msg100749279742.html Is this the Forum?
Click to expand...
Yep that is the one. I was using hydroton that had been sitting in the garage for like 2 years and I had allot of issues. That forum really helped me out. I wouldn't use ro water since it has essentially nothing it in to buffer ph fluctuations. As someone else said, a couple weeks running nutrients will also settle it out. It's ok to let your ph float but swinging from 5.5 to 6.5 in a day is fairly stressfull for plants.
 
RollaP

RollaP

Well-Known Member
How old is too old for hydroton? I'm on my fifth year with this batch of hydroton, and havn't had any problems until recently, but mine is a drain to waste system. So, my question is what can I do to clean or stabilize my hydroton while there are plants in them. The ph of water going in is at 5.8 because I'm using a organic fert. The ph coming out is 6.2-6.5. Is this due to the hydroton or just general rise after nutes are used for feeding? Also the water is RO.
 
H

Hobgoblit

Active Member
RollaP said:
How old is too old for hydroton? I'm on my fifth year with this batch of hydroton, and havn't had any problems until recently, but mine is a drain to waste system. So, my question is what can I do to clean or stabilize my hydroton while there are plants in them. The ph of water going in is at 5.8 because I'm using a organic fert. The ph coming out is 6.2-6.5. Is this due to the hydroton or just general rise after nutes are used for feeding? Also the water is RO.
Click to expand...

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/hydro/msg100749279742.html Go here, Lucas Industries has a debate about that very subject, Helped me alot...
 
Neumann

Neumann

Active Member
Just to stir the pot, I'm using Hydroton that is at least 8 years old and has been sitting, dry, for all that time. I rinsed it in regular tap water with chloramines and flouride in it to get rid of residual dust and then a quick rinse with RO water and I'm not having any pH issues. I've done multiple tests with and without nutrients* and with and without aeration and pH fluctuations are minimal. I think all the concerns about Hydroton are overblown and if someone had serious pH swings, I'd look to water quality first, then nutrients.

*GH Flora series 3 part
 
legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
Pot stirred. Some people have issues, some do not. It is a chemistry issue that sometimes rears its ugly head and sometimes does not. I had crazy ph fluctuations at first. Off the charts. I was using ro water, botanicare nutes, and old hydroton that I rinsed the hell out of.

TO the above poster, if your using fullly organic nutes in hydro, PH swings are part of the game. I know that if I add bat guano and things of that ilk that I get pretty good PH swings. I don't think there is a way to clean your hydroton when your plants are in there. After harvest I dry all my hydroton in the sun on a HUGE tarp. Then put it in a DIY "shaker" ..a screen over a wooden frame like archeologists use to sift dirt to get all the roots off, then give it a final rinse.
 
RollaP

RollaP

Well-Known Member
That must be it. I'm using botanicare for the first time because i wanted to go organic, but the ph swings, mold and fungus issues I'm having are driving me crazy. Causing yellowing and many other things. I guess my inexperience with botanicare hurt my last two harvests. The leaves hardened and yeallowed up through colas. Sucked to see my strawberry haze waste away like that. I realize that even half strength may be too much for this strain.
Thanks for the hydroton tip. I need to build a sifting table too. that would be good, but I'll also have to create a drying rack for it, because I can't dry mine outside.

legallyflying said:
Pot stirred. Some people have issues, some do not. It is a chemistry issue that sometimes rears its ugly head and sometimes does not. I had crazy ph fluctuations at first. Off the charts. I was using ro water, botanicare nutes, and old hydroton that I rinsed the hell out of.

TO the above poster, if your using fullly organic nutes in hydro, PH swings are part of the game. I know that if I add bat guano and things of that ilk that I get pretty good PH swings. I don't think there is a way to clean your hydroton when your plants are in there. After harvest I dry all my hydroton in the sun on a HUGE tarp. Then put it in a DIY "shaker" ..a screen over a wooden frame like archeologists use to sift dirt to get all the roots off, then give it a final rinse.
Click to expand...
 
H

Hobgoblit

Active Member
Neumann said:
Just to stir the pot, I'm using Hydroton that is at least 8 years old and has been sitting, dry, for all that time. I rinsed it in regular tap water with chloramines and flouride in it to get rid of residual dust and then a quick rinse with RO water and I'm not having any pH issues. I've done multiple tests with and without nutrients* and with and without aeration and pH fluctuations are minimal. I think all the concerns about Hydroton are overblown and if someone had serious pH swings, I'd look to water quality first, then nutrients.

*GH Flora series 3 part
Click to expand...
If my DWC, with 5.5 distilled water, no nutes, continues to rise in PH as I feed, and stays stable when I do not feed, the answer is obvious, Hydroton...not the water...
 
legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
rollaP What kind of system are you using? Which line of botanicare are you using? Dosages? You really shouldn't be getting yellowing using botanicare. Did you get signs of them burning...burnt tips?. Sounds like a ph imbalance. What kind of PH meter do you have?

My flowering schedule for botanicare is pretty much off the bottle. It goes something like this...

Per gallon:
5ml calmag
5-7ml liquid karma
10-15 pureblend bloom hydro
5-10 ml botanicare pure blend compost (bloom).

That gets me around 1300 ppm. Which I try to max out.

I switch to bloom soil during the last couple weeks.

This run I am going to hit them with humbolt nutrients ginourmous the first four weeks. I'll probably back of the PB bloom to keep PPM under 1500.
 
lilmafia513

lilmafia513

Well-Known Member
Did anyone figure out how to stabilize THE hydroton while there is a plant in it? I did not do anything other than rinse with tap water and stick a plant in. I didnt know you had to stabilize it all first.....Any ideas???
 
Myles117

Myles117

Well-Known Member
1.5 years in with my hydroton n no issues to speak of with ph (knock on wood)

ill probably get some sarcastic answers but i am looking for something i can add to a hydroton-water mixture that will liquify/dissolve the dead roots to ease rinsing. im not lazy, just have 20 pots per run where the roots are so dense that the hydroton is held onto absurdly tightly. and please dont tell my hygrozyme, im talking pot full of roots to liquid in a week or two period.

cheers!
 
legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
I have the perfect product for that actually! It's fucking awesome actually. It's called llifdnal and it's probably the easiest way to get your hydroton looking like new. Load up your car truck or whatever with all your containers. You don't even have to take the shake the roots or nothing. Now, drive to the nearest llifdnal...You can ask around but sometimes it's sold locally as "the pmud".

Throw the root ball and hydroton into the llifdnal and drive away. On the way home, pick up an equal amount of perlite. Done and done.

If I never see or worse..step on in my bare feet another piece of hydroton I will die a happy man.
 
SnapsProvolone

SnapsProvolone

Well-Known Member
Myles117 said:
1.5 years in with my hydroton n no issues to speak of with ph (knock on wood)

ill probably get some sarcastic answers but i am looking for something i can add to a hydroton-water mixture that will liquify/dissolve the dead roots to ease rinsing. im not lazy, just have 20 pots per run where the roots are so dense that the hydroton is held onto absurdly tightly. and please dont tell my hygrozyme, im talking pot full of roots to liquid in a week or two period.

cheers!
Click to expand...
Dry them. The roots break up into dust. Sift on a windy day, like archeaology... then soak and clean the rocks.
 
Myles117

Myles117

Well-Known Member
problem is my grow isnt in an area where i have private outdoor area to be sifting hydroton. i need to do this indoors.

im assuming the other guy is being a wiseass... and how would perlite be any better when it comes time to separate from the roots? it would probably be even worse since perlite crumbles
 
Metasynth

Metasynth

Well-Known Member
Myles117 said:
problem is my grow isnt in an area where i have private outdoor area to be sifting hydroton. i need to do this indoors.

im assuming the other guy is being a wiseass... and how would perlite be any better when it comes time to separate from the roots? it would probably be even worse since perlite crumbles
Click to expand...
Haha...yeah, he's being sarcastic. That being said, in 3 years or so of working with hydroton, I'd say the easiest way to deal with it IS by throwing it away and buying new hydroton. Though Snaps is right about drying the roots bone dry...It just takes a while for the roots to fully dry out without "help"(like throwing them in an oven), but if you can wait that long, the method he mentioned works well. It just seems like my roots wanna hold on to moisture for a couple weeks after the chop.
 
Myles117

Myles117

Well-Known Member
yeah, mine hold onto the moisture as well. and they attract those root eating gnats quite well lol.

im gunna talk to some organic gardeners n see if there isnt some culture i can throw in and have it dine on the roots. if i can accomplish this ill be thrilled. if not, i may leave hydroton and try other media. shit is too heavy and too big of a PITA to rinse new shit each run. plus thatd cost me about 120 per run and id have alot of heavy hydroton-root blocks to dispose of. at least rockwool will be light and compressible when dried out after use.

so fuckin frustrated! haha
 
legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
Perlite is a great substitute for hydroton. You don't clean it, you throw it out, or if you have a garden, till it into the soil.
On a small scale you can use a bathtub to rinse it and wash it but on a big scale, it is entirely NOT worth it. I hate throwing stuff away but the time needed to clean 300 plus gallons of hydroton is simply ridiculous
 
SnapsProvolone

SnapsProvolone

Well-Known Member
Metasynth said:
Haha...yeah, he's being sarcastic. That being said, in 3 years or so of working with hydroton, I'd say the easiest way to deal with it IS by throwing it away and buying new hydroton. Though Snaps is right about drying the roots bone dry...It just takes a while for the roots to fully dry out without "help"(like throwing them in an oven), but if you can wait that long, the method he mentioned works well. It just seems like my roots wanna hold on to moisture for a couple weeks after the chop.
Click to expand...
They don't dry fast. I have clean rocks waiting. ;)
 
Myles117

Myles117

Well-Known Member
snaps, how much hydroton do you clean at a time? curious what kinda undertaking it is for you/would be for me.

i may use perlite instead n just toss it, may be the easiest n lightest media i can do. id want the super coarse stuff right? a bit larger than the bigger hydroton balls if i remember correctly.
 
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